Boats Collide in Budapest - 7 Dead

[Host Jazzbeau]

Here is Cruise Critic's article on this tragedy:

Europe River Accident Under Investigation; Cruise Lines Monitor Situation, Modify Itineraries

[steamboats]

The Viking Sigyn has only scratches. She´s able to sail. Technically there´s no need to put her out of service.

 

I fear that due to the bad weather (heavy rain) most of the passengers of the excursion boat have been inside the cabin on the lower deck. The ship sank within 7 seconds. So I fear those people never had a real chance to escape.

 

Reports by the authorities were that the excursion boat tried to cross in front of the Viking Sigyn right in front of the Margaret bridge. There´s no chance for a river cruise ship to stop immediately.

 

steamboats

[pontac]

This mornings Telegraph newspaper (London) reported that the Ukrainian Captain of the Viking boat had 'been detained' pre an arrest warrant.

 

Also that the Mayor of Budapest said he was considering banning 'hotel ships' from mooring in the centre of Budapest.

[dodger1964]

4 hours ago, steamboats said:

The Viking Sigyn has only scratches. She´s able to sail. Technically there´s no need to put her out of service.

 

I fear that due to the bad weather (heavy rain) most of the passengers of the excursion boat have been inside the cabin on the lower deck. The ship sank within 7 seconds. So I fear those people never had a real chance to escape.

 

Reports by the authorities were that the excursion boat tried to cross in front of the Viking Sigyn right in front of the Margaret bridge. There´s no chance for a river cruise ship to stop immediately.

 

steamboats

I don't know why they would have arrested the captain of the viking ship if the other ship did what you say...

 

Viking hasn't been great on safety...at least I haven't read about other lines having 2 deadly crashes...maybe there have been others, but Viking really needs to figure out what needs to be changed.

[pontac]

40 minutes ago, dodger1964 said:

I don't know why they would have arrested the captain of the viking ship if the other ship did what you say...

 

Viking hasn't been great on safety

 

They can not arrest the Captain of the other boat.

 

The video appears to show the Viking boat cruising in a straight line and the other boat making a 180 degree turn to end in front of the Viking boat.

 

Decision on who was at fault will be made by the relevant authorities.

 

Viking has more boats on European rivers than any other operator - 69 this year. A post some time ago after another river accident divided the number of river collisions per cruise company by the number of boats they operated and found that other companies had a worse record. 

 

 

[Daisi]

7 minutes ago, pontac said:

 

 

The video appears to show the Viking boat cruising in a straight line and the other boat making a 180 degree turn to end in front of the Viking boat.

Thanks pontac, I have looked at some video's and just see the Viking ship right up tight and into the back of the smaller boat.....couldn't figure out what happened.  If the smaller boat did turn in front of the Viking ship, then the Viking ship had no opportunity to avoid the accident.  I can understand them arresting the captain, this is quite common in a lot of countries while investigation is underway.  

 

Viking has more boats on European rivers than any other operator - 69 this year. A post some time ago after another river accident divided the number of river collisions per cruise company by the number of boats they operated and found that other companies had a worse record. 

I agree, and I think because Viking has such a large presence on the river, you hear more about what happens with them than other lines.  I'm not sure about deaths, but I'm sure there are accidents we never hear of with other lines, but because river cruising isn't as popular, it's not reported unless there is a tragedy like this one.  I am wondering if it had been a barge that went down, caused by another barge, if we would have even heard of it.  Unfortunately, this is a result of the increase of traffic on the river. 

 

 

 

[OnTheJourney]

Such a terribly sad incident...yet ANOTHER hard day for Mr. Hagen...after just a bit over 2 months out from the potential disaster with the Sky (which I was on). Prayers to all the families affected by this tragic loss of life. 😞  

 

Simply too many boats on the rivers unfortunately, especially in such a popular tourist area like Budapest. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by gretschwhtfalcon

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, dodger1964 said:

 

Viking hasn't been great on safety...at least I haven't read about other lines having 2 deadly crashes...maybe there have been others, but Viking really needs to figure out what needs to be changed.

 

I think you have a point here....2 major incidents in less than 3 months. 

[tfred]

I think there are some ship navigation protocols in effect on river or sea.  Generally, small gives way to big and motor gives way to sail.  A small boat crossing anywhere near a larger one should be aware of the larger ship stopping/steering capabilities 

[gentlemancruiser]

There are busier stretches of rivers.   For example the Rhine gorge is much busier, but has better traffic flowing and has way more bends and curves. 

I was told by a Captain a few years ago while we were onboard the Avalon Vista in Budapest, there are some restrictions on the River Cruisers and touring at night was very limited.  He said the local tour companies have always had issues the big river cruisers doing sightseeing trips on the river at night.  

 

It will be interesting to see what the outcome of the investigation is.    

[Canal archive]

Absolutely awful my condolences to the family’s of those lost. 

If anyone knows anything about boats looking at that piece of film will realise that the two ships are far to close together, the larger would tend to suck the smaller towards it!  Plus considering the river conditions both trying to go side by side though one arch of the bridge is asking for trouble. It will be interesting to read the final report. CA

[OnTheJourney]

With the availability of such sophisticated navigational equipment, it would seem that some of this stuff shouldn't happen.  Sounds like it could have been a potential "code-echo" situation onboard the Viking ship, indicating likely collision with either another ship or land. Heard that announced on the Sky. The Sigyn must have came up on them pretty quickly or else, as has been suggested, the tour boat did indeed turn and cut in front of the Sigyn's bow not giving enough time to avoid the accident. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by gretschwhtfalcon

[travelberlin]

I am very sorry to hear about this tragedy. My thoughts are with the families of the victims. The news report that the Captain of the Viking ship has been arrested. There has been growing concern in Europe about having so many ships cruising in the rivers. In the next days we will learn the reason for the accident.

[lonagarr]

9 hours ago, dodger1964 said:

I don't know why they would have arrested the captain of the viking ship if the other ship did what you say...

 

Viking hasn't been great on safety...at least I haven't read about other lines having 2 deadly crashes...maybe there have been others, but Viking really needs to figure out what needs to be changed.

In the first incident on the shore of Norway, there were no fatalities. Had the crew not done as they were trained, there could have been. You might want to familiarize yourself with the facts before judging an incident that is still in the process of investigation.

[lonagarr]

8 hours ago, gretschwhtfalcon said:

 

I think you have a point here....2 major incidents in less than 3 months. 

There were no fatalities on the first accident, so it was not deadly. Also, Viking has more ships on the river than any other company so the odds are greater for an accident. What can Viking do to change when the other boat in Budapest pulled in front of the Viking ship? Also, much as they would like to, Viking cannot control the weather, the conditions of the water or mistakes made by other boats.

[ddgarner1]

9 hours ago, dodger1964 said:

I don't know why they would have arrested the captain of the viking ship if the other ship did what you say...

 

Viking hasn't been great on safety...at least I haven't read about other lines having 2 deadly crashes...maybe there have been others, but Viking really needs to figure out what needs to be changed. 

It's Europe. In some countries they arrest (or pre-arrest), then they investigate.  

Two crashes in three months is only significant if there is a nexus between the incidents or it can be demonstrated that there is a systemic training deficiency within Viking.  If the 70 yr old sightseeing vessel turned to port immediately in front of the Viking longboat, then the challenge for authorities is in determining if the Sigyn had time to reverse engines, had room to turn hard to port to avoid the smaller vessel, or if the Sigyn was "following" too closely for safe operation with pax aboard. Then, there are the political realities of the South Korean government's expectations which may or may not have a relationship to the facts as they evolve from the investigation.   

Whatever the outcome of the investigation may be, it a tragic event with the loss of like among so many of the South Korean tourists. Perhaps not of equal weight, but not to be forgotten, is that there likely are many on the Longship, both cast and crew, who will carry the emotional scars of this disaster for years.

[deec]

ddgarner...you no doubt are so correct about the emotional toll this has taken.  Unlike when then VO SKY was in such peril, we have heard nothing from anyone on board the Sigyn and little from other boats in the area.

[Peregrina651]

54 minutes ago, deec said:

ddgarner...you no doubt are so correct about the emotional toll this has taken.  Unlike when then VO SKY was in such peril, we have heard nothing from anyone on board the Sigyn and little from other boats in the area.

 

Deec, some of that may be the simple fact that the audience for this forum is small and not very talkative. It is entirely possible that not a single person on the Sigyn or any of the other boats is an active participant in these forums.

[Geezer Cruiser]

Greetings from the Ingvi! We were doing our last night of pre-cruise in Budapest before setting sail to Passau. First I knew of the incident was next day coming back from excursions, seeing the crowds on riverbank (near the memorial shoes, I believe) filming efforts to locate victim remains. Others on bus had seen some survivors given emergency treatment in our lobby. 

 

[steamboats]

The lastest news reports including a better video footage show that the excursion boat was the first one under the bridge. An Austrian newspaper assumes that the Viking Sigyn might have hit the excursion boat first which caused it to turn in front of the Viking Sigyn. But that´s not confirmend by the Hungarian authorities yet. Others think that the excursion boat might have been sort of sucked into a current between the Viking Sigyn and the bridge. The captain of the Viking Sigyn says he has 44 years of experiences on the rivers and never had an accident before.

 

steamboats

[odysee]

Viking Cruises is not getting good press in Europe ; this is at least 4th serious incident in last couple of years, and not first accident with death toll.  Previous accidents clearly caused by Viking, and strong suspicion this time Captain ignored right of way of other ship.

 

Cruise ship in trouble off Norwegian coast with passengers being evacuated by helicopter was also Viking ship.

Edited June 1, 2019 by odysee

[sharkster77]

5 hours ago, odysee said:

Viking Cruises is not getting good press in Europe ; this is at least 4th serious incident in last couple of years, and not first accident with death toll.  Previous accidents clearly caused by Viking, and strong suspicion this time Captain ignored right of way of other ship.

 

Cruise ship in trouble off Norwegian coast with passengers being evacuated by helicopter was also Viking ship.

 

Wouldn't the larger (Viking) have the right of way over the smaller excursion boat?  Larger ship is less maneuverable and cannot stop as quickly.  I always thought it was sail over motor, and larger over small.

[d9704011]

6 minutes ago, sharkster77 said:

 

Wouldn't the larger (Viking) have the right of way over the smaller excursion boat?  Larger ship is less maneuverable and cannot stop as quickly.  I always thought it was sail over motor, and larger over small.

Typically, an overtaking vessel (Viking) is obliged to stay out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.  Also, vessel being overtaken is to maintai its course and speed.  So, the investigation will be looking at that among a number of other things to determine what exactly took place.

[odysee]

Don t know anything about maritime law,but my friend Google says this: 

Starboard: If any vessel approaches your boat from the starboard sector, you must keep out of its way. You are the give-way craft. Stern: If any vessel approaches your boat from the stern(from behind your boat) you should maintain your speed and course with caution. You are the stand-on craft.Feb 4, 2019

 

PASSING A BOAT

• Your vessel: If you’re following another vessel in a river, narrow canal, or marked channel, you’re the give-way vessel, meaning you have the greater burden of responsibility should anything go wrong when you try to pass. Your vessel, in this case, is also called the burdened vessel.

• The other vessel: The vessel you want to pass is the stand-on vessel. It’s privileged and the skipper can deny you passage if she thinks it’s unsafe (or doesn’t like the color of your paint).

[steamboats]

odysee, it´s a bit more complicated.

 

Yes, the larger vessel has the right of way - usually - if it´s a large commercial vessel like a passenger cruise ship or freigh ship as it can´t stop in an instance. In this situation media is talking about that the Viking Sigyn wasn´t allowed to pass because the bridge was too close (no passing at a bridge). So say the Viking Sigyn might have been to fast.

 

It´s a difficult situation and we have to wait what the authorities come up with.

 

steamboats