MSC Opera Crashes into Riverboat in Venice

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Mrearl said:

Pilots do not touch any of the controls they give verbal commands and tell the  captain about port conditions and tide 

The only place a Pilot touch’s  the controls is going through the Panama Canal 

This is not correct, either.  Since the Canal pilot is not a company employee, he is not allowed to touch any control on the bridge, typically they ask permission before even adjusting the radars.  The only difference between the Panama Canal pilots and anywhere else in the world, is that when/if a Captain relieves a Panama Canal pilot (which he is lawfully allowed to do), the ship will stop and proceed no further until an investigation is completed, while a Captain may still dock his vessel in a port where he has relieved a harbor pilot.  The difference is that the Panama Canal Authority assumes full financial responsibility for the vessel, and any damages to the vessel or done by the vessel.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, fragilek said:

I know from all your previous posts that you are very knowledgeable, can you comment on the MSC  suggestion that the ship would sail by tomorrow, if this is a mechanical problem will a full check out and fix/ testing not be required before sailing on. Thanks for any info/ suggestions you can give us.

Depending on what the problem is, and what is available to fix it, it could very easily sail tomorrow.  There would have been an Italian Coast Guard inspectors down almost immediately, and the class surveyor would be coming from a nearby port (if there wasn't one in Venice) in Italy.  They will do an inspection of the hull, and then they can test the azipods, if it was in fact the azimuthing equipment that failed, at the dock, and if it all works, the CG will certify the ship to leave port, and the class surveyor will certify the ship's seaworthiness, make any recommendations for further repairs (perhaps replace dented hull plating at next scheduled drydock, etc), and away the ship goes.  Provided the ship has not damaged the hull significantly, and they have determined what happened with the azipods, and have fixed it, and this will be ongoing all night if necessary, there is no reason the ship could not sail tomorrow.

[BermudaBound2014]

[BermudaBound2014]

This one seems to be a combination of several videos. I did see this one posted yet-

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2019/jun/02/moment-cruise-ship-crashes-into-venice-dock-video

 

[geocruiser]

4 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

This one seems to be a combination of several videos. I did see this one posted yet-

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2019/jun/02/moment-cruise-ship-crashes-into-venice-dock-video

 

Will some one else please look at this video at 23 seconds mark.  I think I see men fall into the water from the small gangway of the river boat.  I am having trouble making it out.

[GeezerCouple]

1 hour ago, geocruiser said:

Will some one else please look at this video at 23 seconds mark.  I think I see men fall into the water from the small gangway of the river boat.  I am having trouble making it out.

 

Yes, it's already been mentioned that it seems at least a few people fell in.  It looks horrific, terrifying!!

 

But - amazing!! - it seems they are at worst only among the injured.  That seems like an absolute miracle to me!

 

GC

[quack2]

"Attention ladies and gentlemen.  MSC Opera will be docking at Pier Number 1, oops, make that Pier Number 2; Nope, make that Pier Number 3, Sorry folks, Pier Number 4 . . . . "

Edited June 3, 2019 by quack2

[Dobby_The_Ship_Elf]

insert "italian driving and parking' jokes here

[linwood77]

12 hours ago, little britain said:

Does anyone know what a locked engine means.... like stuck in first ⚙️ gear????

 

 

My guess is either one or both Azipods locked up and would not rotate or possibly one or more of the bow thrusters locked up.

[EngIceDave]

Just found this....

 

 

"The MSC ship had an engine failure, which was immediately reported by the captain," Davide Calderan, head of a tugboat company involved in accompanying the ship into its berth, told Italian media.

"The engine was blocked, but with its thrust on, because the speed was increasing," he said.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/cruise-ship-loses-control-slams-venice-wharf-tourist-102753489.html

[chengkp75]

The more I think about this, the more it sounds like a "control transfer" error, as I noted above.

[hvsteve1]

Here's an interesting thought. We're always talking about how the contract on your ticket limits the liability of the cruise line so far as lawsuits. How about suites against the cruise line that hit your cruise line's boat?

[Domen]

13 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

(2) Both anchors appeared to be fully housed in the hawse pipe? Not that they would have had much chance to use them but we used to walk one anchor out as a contingency ... all you had to do was release the brake and away it went ... 

Interesting outcome to this one me thinks😀

 

I thought of that too but from my limited experience (I have sailed sailboats a few time in Adriatic) there were at least 2 problems:

1) Anchoring in the canals is strictly forbidden because there is usually a lot of underground cables laying on the sea bed (connecting the two shores). If captain would try to stop the ship with anchor he would rip the cables out and cause more havoc than this.

2) For successful anchoring he would need chain that is 5-10 times the depth of the sea. It is safe to assume that canal is somewhat 10m deep (MSC Opera has draught of 6,8m). So if captain actually managed to pull of this maneuver he would need at least 100m of chain deployed. Problem is that anchor deployment is quite slow so I reckon he would need at least 300-500m to pull this off. Secondly it would damage his anchor winch system because of huge forces then anchor would set in the sea bed. Probably even the chain would snap under these forces (4 knots times 65.000 GT)

[buchhalm]

Are the next cruises (for both vessels involved) going ahead? Judging by the images of the damage, it seems doubtful

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Domen said:

 

I thought of that too but from my limited experience (I have sailed sailboats a few time in Adriatic) there were at least 2 problems:

1) Anchoring in the canals is strictly forbidden because there is usually a lot of underground cables laying on the sea bed (connecting the two shores). If captain would try to stop the ship with anchor he would rip the cables out and cause more havoc than this.

2) For successful anchoring he would need chain that is 5-10 times the depth of the sea. It is safe to assume that canal is somewhat 10m deep (MSC Opera has draught of 6,8m). So if captain actually managed to pull of this maneuver he would need at least 100m of chain deployed. Problem is that anchor deployment is quite slow so I reckon he would need at least 300-500m to pull this off. Secondly it would damage his anchor winch system because of huge forces then anchor would set in the sea bed. Probably even the chain would snap under these forces (4 knots times 65.000 GT)

Nah, its done all the time.  While you are correct about the prohibition on anchoring in the Venice canals, the rest is not quite right.  While a scope of 10:1 is good for a small boat and anchor, ships use about a 5-6:1 scope.  The other difference between a sailboat anchor and a ship anchor is that on a ship you "let the anchor go", meaning that the wildcat is free of the hydraulic winch, and is only controlled by the brake.  The weight of the anchor drags it out of the hawse and the chain follows.  With the "anchors cleared for port", meaning they are both unlashed and free of the winch, resting solely on the brakes, and with crew standing by (this is the typical port arrival status), you could have the hook on the bottom in about 60 seconds if the water is only 10 meters deep.  An emergency maneuver like this, would typically end up with a large pile of chain on top of the anchor before the brake could be set to stop the chain running out, and provide stopping power.  In shallow water, this will not damage the winch (it is disconnected), nor the brake (it hasn't had enough time to reach full speed of the chain, so the brake can handle stopping it), the chain would not snap it would only drag and drag the anchor along with it.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, buchhalm said:

Are the next cruises (for both vessels involved) going ahead? Judging by the images of the damage, it seems doubtful

The river boat is going no where, but I suspect the Opera is just fine and will proceed.  The only thing holding it up would be if there were a gash in Opera's hull.

[sidari]

Updated story. In one of the photos it appears the port anchor was down.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7098103/Pilot-cruise-ship-smashed-Venice-canal-tour-boat-describes-horror-crash.html

Edited June 3, 2019 by sidari

[sidari]

Damage to the River Boat.

 

 

[sidari]

As of around 1 hour ago GMT, now 10.20am. Opera was still in Venice.

Posted by Margaret on UK facebook page. .... Opera update - still not sailed so it’s a day in Venice for us. We will find out later what the situation is about when sailing and how this affects our itinerary. Weather is superb so here’s to a fabulous holiday.

Edited June 3, 2019 by sidari

[sidari]

News being sent to me is that MSC Opera is currently under arrest in Venice until further notice, it seems the engines were for some reason jammed in the ahead position and the tugboats broke their lines, it seems that there are numerous repairs required and the ship will not be sailing tonight.

[OzCanuck]

25 minutes ago, sidari said:

News being sent to me is that MSC Opera is currently under arrest in Venice until further notice, it seems the engines were for some reason jammed in the ahead position and the tugboats broke their lines, it seems that there are numerous repairs required and the ship will not be sailing tonight.

Do they have a jail large enough to hold her? 😁

[sidari]

An MSC representative in Italy said he could not comment as he was only authorised to speak to Italian, not international media.

 

Yep ... Managers who are not being allowed to Manage are Managers in name only.

[Domen]

Well that is truly unfortunate... I hope they will get reimbursed for their flight.

What is the procedure in these events (if you miss flight or next connection)?  

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, sidari said:

News being sent to me is that MSC Opera is currently under arrest in Venice until further notice, it seems the engines were for some reason jammed in the ahead position and the tugboats broke their lines, it seems that there are numerous repairs required and the ship will not be sailing tonight.

Yeah, given the anti-ship concerns there, detention was always a possibility, especially if it was found not to be a mechanical failure.  Will be interesting to hear what repairs.  Keep it coming Sid.

[BermudaBound2014]

MSC Opera is still moored as of 8:00 am EST