Fjord Cruise Port Changes; thoughts?

[Coral]

10 minutes ago, hallasm said:

Have you asked at the Princess Board?

This topic has come up before on Princess Norway roll calls. I was part of 2 of them, one cruise I cancelled. People chose not to do it as they could not get an advance approval from Princess.

 

While I am off to work now, I have the daily Patter for the day which says that only those who have tours are allowed off.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Coral

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, hallasm said:

Have you asked at the Princess Board?

No, I thought this forum would be a better source of information.

 

And now it sure looks like it would be better to stay on enjoy the sail from there to Geiranger, and then do whatever we choose there.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, Coral said:

This topic has come up before on Princess Norway roll calls. I was part of 2 of them, one cruise I cancelled. People chose not to do it as they could not get an advance approval from Princess.

 

While I am off to work now, I have the daily Patter for the day which says that only those who have tours are allowed off.

Well, that settles it. We definitely do not want one of their tours there.

 

And if they say you cannot get off without one and you need a water shuttle, that does not leave much choice.

 

At least it should be a very scenic cruise between the ports.

[kaisatsu]

15 hours ago, ontheweb said:

At least it should be a very scenic cruise between the ports.

That’s an understatement! 🙂 Most people visit Geiranger specifically for that stretch of cruising. Even people who arrive by land typically plan to take the ferry or a private boat trip to get out and enjoy the scenery. Geiranger and Hellesylt are both tiny villages (population of only a few hundred); it’s the Geirangerfjord itself that’s the UNESCO-listed attraction in the area and what everyone comes to see!

[gnome12]

3 hours ago, kaisatsu said:

That’s an understatement! 🙂 Most people visit Geiranger specifically for that stretch of cruising. Even people who arrive by land typically plan to take the ferry or a private boat trip to get out and enjoy the scenery. Geiranger and Hellesylt are both tiny villages (population of only a few hundred); it’s the Geirangerfjord itself that’s the UNESCO-listed attraction in the area and what everyone comes to see!

Do Princess ships actually qualify to sail the Geirangerfjord under the new rules? Or is this another instance where they will replace the port stop at a later date? 

[hallasm]

2 hours ago, gnome12 said:

Do Princess ships actually qualify to sail the Geirangerfjord under the new rules?

A guideline can be the age of the ship - see below.

 

The primary reason is reductions in NOx emissions from marine diesel engines installed on ships  derived by tier I to III - one factor is the age of the ship - but also the quality of bunker fuel.

 

The new rules for sailing the Heritage fjords require ships of 1000 gross tonnage and upwards, regardless of year of construction,  to satisfy the NOx control requirements set out by MARPOL: Tier I by 2020, Tier II by 2022 and Tier III by 2025. 

 

The MARPOL requirements for Tier I” emission limit for engines installed on a ship constructed after 1 January 2000;  -  the more stringent "Tier II" emission limit for engines installed on a ship constructed after 1 January 2012  and “Tier III” after 1 January 2016 .

Edited October 24, 2019 by hallasm

[kaisatsu]

4 hours ago, gnome12 said:

Do Princess ships actually qualify to sail the Geirangerfjord under the new rules? Or is this another instance where they will replace the port stop at a later date? 

You'd have to find the emissions data for their ships to know for certain. However, if one of their ships calls at Geiranger next year, it will also be eligible to visit in 2021.

 

I have no idea whether (and how long) Princess might continue to announce port changes. If they cancel this year and announce Geiranger for a 2021 itinerary on the same ships, I would definitely side-eye them, because it's unlikely they'll make the changes to improve the emissions in that timeframe. Especially since during the discussion period for the new regulations, most of the cruiselines balked at the cost of making such changes to existing ships.

 

FYI - Calls to both Hellesylt and Geiranger are supposed to be subject to the new restrictions.

 

2 hours ago, hallasm said:

The new rules for sailing the Heritage fjords require ships of 1000 gross tonnage and upwards, regardless of year of construction,  to satisfy the NOx control requirements set out by MARPOL: Tier I by 2020, Tier II by 2022 and Tier III by 2025. 

 

The MARPOL requirements for Tier I” emission limit for engines installed on a ship constructed after 1 January 2000;  -  the more stringent "Tier II" emission limit for engines installed on a ship constructed after 1 January 2012  and “Tier III” after 1 January 2016 .

This is a little confusing, because the rules for the heritage fjords apply regardless of construction year, which is about the only statistic that's actually easy to track down. However, since these regulations also apply elsewhere, one would hope that newer builds do conform to the listed requirements. Thus, a recent build is more likely to comply with the emissions limits than an older ship.

 

If you do manage to track down the emissions statistics, here are the MARPOL definitions of the three tiers:

 

Tier	Ship construction date on or after	Total weighted cycle emission limit (g/kWh) n = engine’s rated speed (rpm)
		n < 130	n = 130 - 1999	n ≥ 2000
I	1 January 2000	17.0	45·n(-0.2) e.g., 720 rpm – 12.1	9.8
II	1 January 2011	14.4	44·n(-0.23) e.g., 720 rpm – 9.7	7.7
III	1 January 2016	3.4	9·n(-0.2) e.g., 720 rpm – 2.4	2.0

 

[hallasm]

16 minutes ago, kaisatsu said:

This is a little confusing, because the rules for the heritage fjords apply regardless of construction year,

True - most important is NOx emissions - the Tier's are linked the the requirements for that particular years. Since operators like Hurtigruten is modifying older ships to comply with requirements, and in particular the 'zero Emission' for UNESCO-protected fjords in force no later than 2026,  the ship construction year does not make sense - only NOx emissions.

[Coral]

Princess will have 2 LNG ships in 2023 and 2025.

 

Crystal just changed their itineraries. It wouldn't surprise me if Princess still needs to change theirs. I know I looked at one sailing next year and it didn't have Flam or Geiranger. Though this was released last year.

[hallasm]

16 minutes ago, Coral said:

Princess will have 2 LNG ships in 2023 and 2025.

Even LNG ships will not be allowed in Geirangerfjord and Nærøyfjord from 2026 - Those fjords will be zero emission zones. Only ships with electric propulsion will be allowed.

[Coral]

7 hours ago, hallasm said:

Even LNG ships will not be allowed in Geirangerfjord and Nærøyfjord from 2026 - Those fjords will be zero emission zones. Only ships with electric propulsion will be allowed.

And here I thought I understood Norway's restrictions. Uggh! I am thinking I won't ever make it back to Geriangerfjord. And my pictures were taken into the sun there! It is truly special and beautiful. I am glad I experienced it when I did.

 

Thank you for clarifying this for me. Can you tell me what ships will be able to sail here?

[hallasm]

6 hours ago, Coral said:

Can you tell me what ships will be able to sail here?

It's not fully clear to me which fjords will be covered by the 'zero emission zone' - "The Norwegian Parliament has adopted a resolution to halt emissions from cruise ships and ferries in the Norwegian world heritage fjords as soon as technically possible and no later than 2026".

So far the UNESCO heritage fjords are Nærøyfjord and Geirangerfjord - but also Aurlandsfjord and Synnulvsfjord has been mentioned. Then it will not be possible for 'conventional cruise ships' to visit Geiranger, Hellesylt, Flåm and Gudvangen. Only hybrid ship with battery and electric propulsion will be able to sail to those ports.

Fjord1 is already operating electrical ferries in Norway.

Hurtigruten as well as Havila Kystruten are currently building hybrid battery cruise ships and will be able to sail the heritage fjords when 'zero emission zones' have been established.

Those ships will primarily sail the coastal voyage from Bergen to Kirkenes including Geiranger during summer.

From 2021 Hurtigruten will launch a new Norwegian expedition cruise initiative which will be different from the current coastal route offering - but I do not think the itinerary will include Geiranger and Flåm. However it might change when the 'zero emission zones' are established.

Edited October 25, 2019 by hallasm

[spumonisowner]

We are booked on the Carnival Legend in June 2020. So far, we still have the ports of Geiranger and Hellesylt listed. I hope we can still do it! I guess Carnival isn’t exactly known for being environmentally friendly. Any thoughts about the Legend being allowed to sail Geirangerfjord?

[HLGW60]

2 hours ago, spumonisowner said:

We are booked on the Carnival Legend in June 2020. So far, we still have the ports of Geiranger and Hellesylt listed. I hope we can still do it! I guess Carnival isn’t exactly known for being environmentally friendly. Any thoughts about the Legend being allowed to sail Geirangerfjord?

We are also on this sailing and I keep checking daily to see if the schedule has been changed. We were originally scheduled for Trondheim and then several months ago it was changed to Geiranger/Hellesylt.  They certainly would have known about the new regulations by then for Geirangerfyord and it seems to me they wouldn’t have chosen that port if  they knew it would be a problem. Hope we know for sure soon.

[hallasm]

9 hours ago, spumonisowner said:

Any thoughts about the Legend being allowed to sail Geirangerfjord?

Legend is a ‘tier I ship’ build in 2001 - technically she should be able to sail the fjords through 2021.

[scubacruiserx2]

3 hours ago, hallasm said:

Legend is a ‘tier I ship’ build in 2001 - technically she should be able to sail the fjords through 2021.

 

How about the Rotterdam in May or the Zuiderdam in August ?

[hallasm]

30 minutes ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

How about the Rotterdam in May or the Zuiderdam

It’s not only about the age off the ship but the emission as discussed in post #82.

While Zuiderdam is build in 2001 it has to comply with tier I while Rotterdam is build in 1996 and does not necessarily comply with the tier I emission limits. 

But it is likely that Rotterdam cannot sail the fjords.

I did check Geiranger Cruise ship arrivals for 2020 and neither Rotterdam or Zuiderdam are listed for Geiranger in August - which sailings?

[scubacruiserx2]

57 minutes ago, hallasm said:

It’s not only about the age off the ship but the emission as discussed in post #82.

While Zuiderdam is build in 2001 it has to comply with tier I while Rotterdam is build in 1996 and does not necessarily comply with the tier I emission limits. 

But it is likely that Rotterdam cannot sail the fjords.

I did check Geiranger Cruise ship arrivals for 2020 and neither Rotterdam or Zuiderdam are listed for Geiranger in August - which sailings?

 

Originally the Rotterdam was supposed to go to Geiranger on May 20th but that was changed to Molde  . It also is scheduled to go to Eidfjord and Hardangerfjord on the 18th . The Zuiderdam is scheduled to go to Flam on August 21 st . Do you think that we will be able to go to these ports ? We did book a guide to take us to Geiranger from Alesund on May 19th . Thank you .

[hallasm]

29 minutes ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

Zuiderdam is scheduled to go to Flam on August 21 st .

Zuiderdam is listed at Flåm cruise port schedule for August 21 - should be fine. 

[scubacruiserx2]

3 minutes ago, hallasm said:

Zuiderdam is listed at Flåm cruise port schedule for August 21 - should be fine. 

 

Thanks again !

[ontheweb]

How about Crown Princess next summer? The cruise at least now lists Geiranger as a port.

[hallasm]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

How about Crown Princess next summer? The cruise at least now lists Geiranger as a port.

Will help if you specify a date - I found a  schedule for Hellesylt in the morning and  Geiranger in the afternoon July 30 , 2020

[ontheweb]

26 minutes ago, hallasm said:

Will help if you specify a date - I found a  schedule for Hellesylt in the morning and  Geiranger in the afternoon July 30 , 2020

That sounds like it as the embarkation date in July 25, 2020.

[spumonisowner]

On 10/31/2019 at 4:45 AM, hallasm said:

Legend is a ‘tier I ship’ build in 2001 - technically she should be able to sail the fjords through 2021.

That's good news! Thanks!