Is Celebrity Running out of Money?

[Bo1953]

17 minutes ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

 

Seriously. You’re running to Carnival ?

 

I’m running away from Carnival to Celebrity as I’ve grown tired of Walmart style cruising

 

The grass always looks greener on the other side

l - please remember that each of us has individualized 'values' for cruising....

 

Which is good IMO, for others to have options to either keep or just try...

 

bon voyage

[keesar]

10 hours ago, ghstudio said:

 

Many of us join you in dreaming of going to Murano.....it's been replaced on most if not all the ships with Tuscan Grill....the Specialty Restaurant where, after spending your $50 or so, you can then spend another $10 to get better meat.  No cooking at the table, etc.  Murano must have cost celebrity too much.  

 

On which ships has Murano been replaced?  I cannot recall any Murano restaurant being replaced on an S-class ship.

[KarlGermany]

11 hours ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

 

Seriously. You’re running to Carnival ?

 

I’m running away from Carnival to Celebrity as I’ve grown tired of Walmart style cruising

 

The grass always looks greener on the other side

 

Well, we‘ll see how Carnival will be. However, it’s not so much about „Carnival vs. Celebrity“ it’s more about being a loyal, returning customer or don’t care any longer about the locality programs and go for the best offer anywhere.

Currently cruise companies don’t face a lot of real competition. There are more and more ships, however the increase of people doing a cruise outnumbers the increase of cabins.

So, yes customers can choose from more and more cruises, so cruise companies have to catch the customer by „good offers“ and then they make the money with the fine print and by reducing the actually included services and charging here and there some extra dollar. 

If customers get upset about this practice and pick a different cruise line next time, no problem, the market is huge, they catch another customer.

They don’t care about loyal customers anymore. However, eventually market will change again and they will end up with a lot of cabins and decreasing numbers of guests. But that’s probably after the term of the current management, so they don’t care either.

So, if that is the way they want to deal with the business, all we as customers can do is change our behavior as well. Don’t expect any longer to get anything back for being a loyal customer, just go for the best deal and don’t expect to get the best service for less money. 

Its not only the cruise business, it’s elsewhere as well. 

Management cares only for short term numbers, not at all for long term benefit of the company

 

 

[Mynki]

19 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

A fellow passenger after my own heart!

 

Cheers and bon voyage

 

Ha! I mean this most sincerely, I'm genuinely pleased that the several billion people who will never be able to take a luxury cruise in their life do not read some of the threads on these boards! 

[Redtravel]

As long as people are willing to book cruises with more restrictions and higher prices, Celebrity makes more money. That may annoy some. If you know that you cannot get your deposit back and still book, buy insurance. Many credit cards will protect you if you cancel or have a problem. Airlines sell non refundable seats with a fee to change a flight. Nobody forces you to book a cruise. You decide if you are ok with the booking restrictions. If you are uncomfortable, do not book Celebrity. There are many vacation options. As long as Celebrity fills their cabins, they will continue to make money and likely raise prices. It is supply and demand. 

[ak1004]

2 hours ago, KarlGermany said:

 

Well, we‘ll see how Carnival will be. However, it’s not so much about „Carnival vs. Celebrity“ it’s more about being a loyal, returning customer or don’t care any longer about the locality programs and go for the best offer anywhere.

Currently cruise companies don’t face a lot of real competition. There are more and more ships, however the increase of people doing a cruise outnumbers the increase of cabins.

So, yes customers can choose from more and more cruises, so cruise companies have to catch the customer by „good offers“ and then they make the money with the fine print and by reducing the actually included services and charging here and there some extra dollar. 

If customers get upset about this practice and pick a different cruise line next time, no problem, the market is huge, they catch another customer.

They don’t care about loyal customers anymore. However, eventually market will change again and they will end up with a lot of cabins and decreasing numbers of guests. But that’s probably after the term of the current management, so they don’t care either.

So, if that is the way they want to deal with the business, all we as customers can do is change our behavior as well. Don’t expect any longer to get anything back for being a loyal customer, just go for the best deal and don’t expect to get the best service for less money. 

Its not only the cruise business, it’s elsewhere as well. 

Management cares only for short term numbers, not at all for long term benefit of the company

 

 

 

You are right about them don't caring about loyal customers anymore. I'm not sure any company does, at least in the mass market. Why would any customer care about being loyal to any brand is also beyond me. Is it because of "loyalty program"? To get to "elite", you need to spend tens of thousands of dollars, and after that you get a complimentary bag of laundry and 20% discount of severely overpriced drinks? This is why people come back?

 

To me, I have zero loyalty to any line. I will always base my decision on the best possible package, even if it means going on 10 different lines. 

 

And if you want not to be "nickeled and dimed", book one of the luxury lines. The decision is pretty simple. You might be surprised how small the difference in price becomes once you account for all inclusions.

[Denny01]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

You are right about them don't caring about loyal customers anymore. I'm not sure any company does, at least in the mass market. Why would any customer care about being loyal to any brand is also beyond me. Is it because of "loyalty program"? To get to "elite", you need to spend tens of thousands of dollars, and after that you get a complimentary bag of laundry and 20% discount of severely overpriced drinks? This is why people come back?

 

To me, I have zero loyalty to any line. I will always base my decision on the best possible package, even if it means going on 10 different lines. 

 

And if you want not to be "nickeled and dimed", book one of the luxury lines. The decision is pretty simple. You might be surprised how small the difference in price becomes once you account for all inclusions.

I’ll give a different view of your ‘loyalty program’ opinion of spending 10’s of thousands to get to elite. If I went on 10 different Lines instead of one or two, I’d still pay out that amount that cost me to reach a certain loyalty level. No one, well maybe someone upgrading to get more points on one cruise to reach a level they are close to, cruises to just get points.

 

I’ve cruised many Lines (not 10) and find all fun at some level, but at this point in life, I have found Celebrity to meet what I enjoy for a mainline Cruise Line. I won’t go through them, they are my subjective opinions and likes, and a cruise ship isn’t just transportation for me from one port to another, it is a major part of my vacation enjoyment, so I pick a Line I enjoy. I find the three Celebrity ship classes to differ enough to give me a good mix so I don’t need to go to other Lines for different experiences. Not because I’m somehow ‘loyal’, but because their product meets what I’m looking for - at this juncture in life. Does X meet it at all times? Nope. Have I tried every Line to see if another is better for me? Nope and don’t plan to. 

 

I didn’t pay 10’s of thousands for a free (nothings ‘free’) bag of laundry or a happy hr drink, I pay for the experience and an itinerary and it just happens X has a pretty good loyalty program that I can take advantage of. And I only need 30+ more cruises to reach Zenith, making me in the mid-90’s when I reach it!!! Yahoooo!!

 

Den

Edited July 23, 2019 by Denny01

[Bo1953]

1 hour ago, Mynki said:

 

Ha! I mean this most sincerely, I'm genuinely pleased that the several billion people who will never be able to take a luxury cruise in their life do not read some of the threads on these boards! 

I agree and you know at least 70% of them will also never find this site either...

 

bon voyage

[tserface]

This may have been said, but I think many of us are responsible for them going to the non-refundable deposit system.  Many people would book several cruises, with no intention of taking them all, just to reserve the rooms they wanted. Then, close to the payment days they would cancel the ones they decided against.  This left the cruise line with a bunch of rooms to sell off cheap at the last minute.  So, first they went to a system where you couldn't book overlapping cruises (obviously you couldn't take them both) and, eventually, added the non-refundable deposit option. They left the refundable option, but it's a lot more expensive so they can make up for some of their inconvenience when people cancel.

From a business perspective it makes sense.  If someone cancels Celebrity, at least, gets to keep their deposit for their trouble.

For us, there is almost no incentive to book on board any longer unless they have a special OBC deal going on or something that makes it interesting.

To be fair, we've been guilty of this tactic in the past.  We've booked on both RCI and Celebrity and decided later which one to actual take.  We didn't think much about it, but now we miss the privilege.

Edited July 23, 2019 by tserface

[PTC DAWG]

5 minutes ago, tserface said:

This may have been said, but I think many of us are responsible for them going to the non-refundable deposit system.  Many people would book several cruises, with no intention of taking them all, just to reserve the rooms they wanted. Then, close to the payment days they would cancel the ones they decided against.  This left the cruise line with a bunch of rooms to sell of cheap at the last minute.  So, first they went to a system where you couldn't book overlapping cruises (obviously you couldn't take them both) and, eventually, added the non-refundable deposit option. They left the refundable option, but it's a lot more expensive so they can make up for some of their inconvenience when people cancel.

From a business perspective it makes sense.  If someone cancels Celebrity, at least, gets to keep their deposit for their trouble.

For us, there is almost no incentive to book on board any longer unless they have a special OBC deal going on or something that makes it interesting.

To be fair, we've been guilty of this tactic in the past.  We've booked on both RCI and Celebrity and decided later which one to actual take.  We didn't think much about it, but now we miss the privilege.

I think your post is spot on.  There is a reason we can't have nice things...Obviously, I'll admit to "pricing" different cruises, checking room availability , etc...but never have I had more than one booked at a time.  

Edited July 23, 2019 by PTC DAWG

[Denny01]

As to non-refundables. You have to watch who you are booking with also, beyond what a certain Line’s rules are. Early in my cruising life, I booked a Viking River cruise with an online booker I thought was Viking. When I had to cancel, they informed me I lost my deposit. When I called Viking, they nicely explained that wasn't them, it was a booking agent that used a Very Similar tag and they were working on challenging them since this had happened before. 

 

Buyer beware. And AK1004, I’m still with you. It’s tough having conversations on threads such as this and not face-face to be able to clarify when misunderstandings occur. I may disagree with some of your views, but fully understand what you are getting at. 

 

I had to apologize to another poster for being snarky when they were just being tongue-in-cheek and I missed it. 

 

I think all posters should try this: come back and thank other posters and when we are out of line, apologize as needed. These forums are all about enjoying a fantastic vacationing experience we are all lucky to get to do.  And I plan do to so until I’m so old, I’ll sit on my porch and yell at the teenagers: Get Off my Grass, you rotten kids!!

 

Den

[Bo1953]

1 minute ago, Denny01 said:

As to non-refundables. You have to watch who you are booking with also, beyond what a certain Line’s rules are. Early in my cruising life, I booked a Viking River cruise with an online booker I thought was Viking. When I had to cancel, they informed me I lost my deposit. When I called Viking, they nicely explained that wasn't them, it was a booking agent that used a Very Similar tag and they were working on challenging them since this had happened before. 

 

Buyer beware. And AK1004, I’m still with you. It’s tough having conversations on threads such as this and not face-face to be able to clarify when misunderstandings occur. I may disagree with some of your views, but fully understand what you are getting at. 

 

I had to apologize to another poster for being snarky when they were just being tongue-in-cheek and I missed it. 

 

I think all posters should try this: come back and thank other posters and when we are out of line, apologize as needed. These forums are all about enjoying a fantastic vacationing experience we are all lucky to get to do.  And I plan do to so until I’m so old, I’ll sit on my porch and yell at the teenagers: Get Off my Grass, you rotten kids!!

 

Den

Thank you Mr. President....

 

bon voyage

[Tatka]

On 7/21/2019 at 5:08 AM, Mynki said:

 

The yanks pay way more for their internet access than we do in the UK. I was amazed when I saw internet pricing in the US so the pricing aboard the ship looks a lot more horrendous to Brits than Americans. Even with 30% discount it is ridiculous though. Sadly running my own business these days I'm forced to keep in touch so have no choice but to buy internet onboard. 

 

Royal's prices are much cheaper. It's $19.99 full price for a day of unlimited surf and stream internet, but with discounts we have it usually for $13.99 - 15.99. I work from ships sometimes and their new ships are the best in this regard. VPN works fine, I even have video conferences  🙂 . I did the same from Silhouette and it was much more expensive.

[Orator]

9 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

As to non-refundables. You have to watch who you are booking with also, beyond what a certain Line’s rules are. Early in my cruising life, I booked a Viking River cruise with an online booker I thought was Viking. When I had to cancel, they informed me I lost my deposit. When I called Viking, they nicely explained that wasn't them, it was a booking agent that used a Very Similar tag and they were working on challenging them since this had happened before. 

 

Buyer beware. And AK1004, I’m still with you. It’s tough having conversations on threads such as this and not face-face to be able to clarify when misunderstandings occur. I may disagree with some of your views, but fully understand what you are getting at. 

 

I had to apologize to another poster for being snarky when they were just being tongue-in-cheek and I missed it. 

 

I think all posters should try this: come back and thank other posters and when we are out of line, apologize as needed. These forums are all about enjoying a fantastic vacationing experience we are all lucky to get to do.  And I plan do to so until I’m so old, I’ll sit on my porch and yell at the teenagers: Get Off my Grass, you rotten kids!!

 

Den

Amen!

[KarlGermany]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

...Why would any customer care about being loyal to any brand is also beyond me. Is it because of "loyalty program"? To get to "elite", you need to spend tens of thousands of dollars, and after that you get a complimentary bag of laundry and 20% discount of severely overpriced drinks? This is why people come back?

....

Absolutely correct, however it used to be different. Loyalty programs used to be not only a bag of laundry, it was about being special treated with complimentary upgrades, invitations, generally upgraded service. It was about making the guest feel like a guest not a customer.

but those days are over, both in cruise business as well as airline business.

 

 

[Tatka]

On 7/21/2019 at 10:06 AM, ak1004 said:

Yes, and much better speed. Princess proves over and over again that even mass market line can do things differently.

 

I love Princess, but Royal has it better 😉 , especially on newer ships.

It has nothing to do with massmarket. Royal is even more massmarket than Celebrity and Princess which are premium massmarket.

[Tatka]

4 hours ago, KarlGermany said:

Well, we‘ll see how Carnival will be.

 

 I hope it will be good for you.

 

 For us? This is the only line out of 8 (you can check my signature for more details) which after 3 honest tries we will never cruise with again. And it's not even food or service, or ships... which all are downgrades to Celebrity, but whole ambiance. Celebrity is much more refined in terms of Pax.

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, Denny01 said:

 

I’ve cruised many Lines (not 10) and find all fun at some level, but at this point in life, I have found Celebrity to meet what I enjoy for a mainline Cruise Line. I won’t go through them, they are my subjective opinions and likes, and a cruise ship isn’t just transportation for me from one port to another, it is a major part of my vacation enjoyment, so I pick a Line I enjoy. I find the three Celebrity ship classes to differ enough to give me a good mix so I don’t need to go to other Lines for different experiences. Not because I’m somehow ‘loyal’, but because their product meets what I’m looking for - at this juncture in life. Does X meet it at all times? Nope. Have I tried every Line to see if another is better for me? Nope and don’t plan to. 

 

I didn’t pay 10’s of thousands for a free (nothings ‘free’) bag of laundry or a happy hr drink, I pay for the experience and an itinerary and it just happens X has a pretty good loyalty program that I can take advantage of. And I only need 30+ more cruises to reach Zenith, making me in the mid-90’s when I reach it!!! Yahoooo!!

 

Den

 

I'm with you! You are on Celebrity not because you are loyal, but because you tried other lines, compared them and decided that Celebrity is the best fit for you. And if you get some benefits from the loyalty program, that's an added bonus, not the reason you book the line.

 

Good luck getting to Zenith!

[DYKWIA]

On 7/19/2019 at 11:23 PM, K12Guy said:

.....

 

Also, passengers have forced cruise lines to go to non-refundable deposits because so many were booking multiple cruises and staterooms and then cancelling them before final payment, leaving the cruise line with lots of inventory they didn't want.

....

 

It's the passenger's fault now?

 

Celebrity set the rules.  Celebrity allow you to book all these cruises and cancel them with no penalty.  They can even see which of their passengers have a habit of doing this - but  the passengers are at fault for doing what Celebrity allows them to do.

[ak1004]

13 minutes ago, Tatka said:

 

I love Princess, but Royal has it better 😉 , especially on newer ships.

It has nothing to do with massmarket. Royal is even more massmarket than Celebrity and Princess which are premium massmarket.

 

Nobody's perfect as they say..

 

Wouldn't it be nice to create a ship that has Royal entertainment (and internet), Oceania food and service, Celebrity M class size (but Oceania passengers/crew ratio) and Azamara destinations? 

[bkbarrym]

2 minutes ago, DYKWIA said:

 

It's the passenger's fault now?

 

Celebrity set the rules.  Celebrity allow you to book all these cruises and cancel them with no penalty.  They can even see which of their passengers have a habit of doing this - but  the passengers are at fault for doing what Celebrity allows them to do.

Don't forget $20 and 2 for 1 deposits. 

[DYKWIA]

2 minutes ago, bkbarrym said:

Don't forget $20 and 2 for 1 deposits. 

 

Yup.  It's Tuesday night and in the UK that means that one of the TV channels has a cruise show on selling cruises - no doubt, as they do most weeks, they will promote at least 1 cruiseline that is offering £1 deposits - "what have you got to lose" they will say.

[Tatka]

9 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Wouldn't it be nice to create a ship that has Royal entertainment (and internet), Oceania food and service, Celebrity M class size (but Oceania passengers/crew ratio) and Azamara destinations? 

 

   It would be amazing! I can through several more lines in this mix. All lines (except for one 🙂 ) that we sailed had something very good.

[Mynki]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

 To get to "elite", you need to spend tens of thousands of dollars, and after that you get a complimentary bag of laundry and 20% discount of severely overpriced drinks? This is why people come back?

 

 

 

It's not that expensive to achieve Elite. We made it in four cruises (28 days sky suite and 21 days aqua class)  at a cost of approximately £7100 ($8875 today). IMHO the level 'Elite' sounds far more grand than it actually is. 

It's nice to have it but it really is mostly of benefit for those booking a non suite experience without a beverage package. We're nearly E+ now so I did some 'cigarette packet maths' once and calculated that if we accrue the same number of points per annum that we've been averaging we'll achieve Zenith aged 68! Assuming we're both still around and healthy enough to travel! 

But the real cost to us to achieve Zenith would be missing out on cruising other lines and land vacations which are on our bucket lists. I also think that in twenty five years time that other lines might appeal more than X. So it's highly unlikely that will happen. 

I like how you don't have to sail once every three years to maintain your status though and the reciprocal status agreement with RCL and AZ are nice too. 

 

[Mynki]

16 minutes ago, DYKWIA said:

 

Yup.  It's Tuesday night and in the UK that means that one of the TV channels has a cruise show on selling cruises - no doubt, as they do most weeks, they will promote at least 1 cruiseline that is offering £1 deposits - "what have you got to lose" they will say.

 

Would that be the show where Celebrity UK's marketing department appear to not only write the script but also direct the acting of the sales people when featuring X cruises? 😂

Edited July 23, 2019 by Mynki