Is Celebrity Running out of Money?

[ak1004]

51 minutes ago, Mynki said:

 

It's not that expensive to achieve Elite. We made it in four cruises (28 days sky suite and 21 days aqua class)  at a cost of approximately £7100 ($8875 today). IMHO the level 'Elite' sounds far more grand than it actually is. 

It's nice to have it but it really is mostly of benefit for those booking a non suite experience without a beverage package. We're nearly E+ now so I did some 'cigarette packet maths' once and calculated that if we accrue the same number of points per annum that we've been averaging we'll achieve Zenith aged 68! Assuming we're both still around and healthy enough to travel! 

But the real cost to us to achieve Zenith would be missing out on cruising other lines and land vacations which are on our bucket lists. I also think that in twenty five years time that other lines might appeal more than X. So it's highly unlikely that will happen. 

I like how you don't have to sail once every three years to maintain your status though and the reciprocal status agreement with RCL and AZ are nice too. 

 

 

I guess you got really good deals. Suite is typically at least $300-350 per night per person isn't it?

[Mynki]

49 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I guess you got really good deals. Suite is typically at least $300-350 per night per person isn't it?

That's going back to 2014. But yes :-

7 night Silhouette AC past final payment date as we were in Florida anyway and decided to go last minute £700
14 night Millennium S1 guarantee booking £1800. We managed to snag 6145 too! 
14 night Eclipse AC with a genuine buy one get one half price offer from Celebrity UK also £1800
14 night Eclipse S2 Caribbean £2800

The next 105 points (11 day CC b2b 10 day AC on Summit) cost £952 due to Hurricane Irma resulting in people cancelling combined with a Celebrity UK special offer (deep discounting) so I took a big risk of getting there but fortune favours the brave. An exceptional deal as that included classic beverage packages on both sailings and I doubt we'll ever see pricing like that again. 

Last week when I checked I posted on here that S2 suites start at $170 pppm + taxes and port fees. 

I'm acutely aware that posting pricing will be seen as crass by some. But it highlights that there is value to be had if you look hard enough. In the last couple of weeks I've seen an M class PH at £495 pppn fully loaded too whilst E class aqua class rooms with a very similar itinerary at the same time of year are around £600 pppn. Go figure.....

Back to 2019 if you're flexible with your travel dates and still have a list of places you want to see, then I reckon you could do Elite under $10,000 comfortably. You'll just not see many if  any E class sailings on your cruise history. :) 

[Mynki]

Just checked...

Excluding taxes and port fees repo cruises have suites starting from $151 pppn.

Others start from $183 pppn (Reflectiom) 

[ak1004]

20 minutes ago, Mynki said:

Just checked...

Excluding taxes and port fees repo cruises have suites starting from $151 pppn.

Others start from $183 pppn (Reflectiom) 

 

I don't see those prices on Canadian website. The cheapest is Oct.24 sailing on Silhouette  - 15 nights at $5,917 CAD which is around $300 USD per night. Maybe prices are lower in the UK.

[Mynki]

11 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I don't see those prices on Canadian website. The cheapest is Oct.24 sailing on Silhouette  - 15 nights at $5,917 CAD which is around $300 USD per night. Maybe prices are lower in the UK.

 

I'm looking at a large US TA. Pricing is in US dollars. I've not checked UK pricing. 

[bikerunner]

3 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

I'm with you! You are on Celebrity not because you are loyal, but because you tried other lines, compared them and decided that Celebrity is the best fit for you. And if you get some benefits from the loyalty program, that's an added bonus, not the reason you book the line.

 

Good luck getting to Zenith!

That is how I see it for myself now.  I prefer Celebrity because it is more low key.  It fits my lifestyle the best and how I enjoy vacations.  Tho I am trying SilverSeas next year, got a great deal on one but that can get pricey for me at this point.  Rules change, yes the service is not the same anymore but I still put it above other lines in Mass Market, maybe I been lucky and never had major issues in any form with Celebrity.  I have dealt with people on board who were more an issue then the line and had those situations taken care of easily.  Im not going to get upset with the moving towards No Refunds etc, Ill just look elsewhere if they go fully to that route.  But I do see in the next few years there being an oversaturation of product out in the market and good deals being had. 

[chefchick]

On 7/20/2019 at 4:28 PM, ak1004 said:

 

This show was accompanied by a live orchestra of 20+ musicians in a 360 theater. It was one of the best shows we have seen on any cruise ship. Their entertainment in general is much more special and unique than Celebrity. Far from cheap.

 

This is true.  If you haven’t seen this show you are missing out.  HAL isn’t exactly known for its entertainment, but this show and the BB King blues club were standouts on my last cruise.

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, bikerunner said:

That is how I see it for myself now.  I prefer Celebrity because it is more low key.  It fits my lifestyle the best and how I enjoy vacations.  Tho I am trying SilverSeas next year, got a great deal on one but that can get pricey for me at this point.  Rules change, yes the service is not the same anymore but I still put it above other lines in Mass Market, maybe I been lucky and never had major issues in any form with Celebrity.  I have dealt with people on board who were more an issue then the line and had those situations taken care of easily.  Im not going to get upset with the moving towards No Refunds etc, Ill just look elsewhere if they go fully to that route.  But I do see in the next few years there being an oversaturation of product out in the market and good deals being had. 

 

We never had any "issues" with Celebrity. It does everything "good", just not "excellent". If I had to give marks, most departments (service, food, cabins, entertainment) would probably get around 7 out of 10, maybe some 8 and some 6. For comparison, Oceania would get 9-10 in most departments, but entertainment is probably 5-6. In my opinion, this is the strength (but also the weakness) of Celebrity. It provides a good, well balanced package. Nothing is really bad, but nothing is really excellent. We enjoyed our last Reflection cruise very much, but it was not Oceania. Which is fine. 

[bikerunner]

13 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

We never had any "issues" with Celebrity. It does everything "good", just not "excellent". If I had to give marks, most departments (service, food, cabins, entertainment) would probably get around 7 out of 10, maybe some 8 and some 6. For comparison, Oceania would get 9-10 in most departments, but entertainment is probably 5-6. In my opinion, this is the strength (but also the weakness) of Celebrity. It provides a good, well balanced package. Nothing is really bad, but nothing is really excellent. We enjoyed our last Reflection cruise very much, but it was not Oceania. Which is fine. 

I would agree, across the board on many aspects they are good to very good.  The excellent is above and beyond but I don't need to be wowed just not have to think and worry about what's happening around me on a cruise. 

[ak1004]

46 minutes ago, bikerunner said:

I would agree, across the board on many aspects they are good to very good.  The excellent is above and beyond but I don't need to be wowed just not have to think and worry about what's happening around me on a cruise. 

 

Honestly, I'm okay with "good to very good" on most areas. If I don't get my coffee in the morning within 30 seconds like on Oceania, I'm perfectly capable to get up and get my coffee myself. Crowds are sometimes annoying, but not a deal breaker. But food on Celebrity is a bit disappointing to me, especially in the MDR. I know it's subjective, but I found food on Oceania few levels above, and this was a big factor to me.

[Mynki]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

Honestly, I'm okay with "good to very good" on most areas. If I don't get my coffee in the morning within 30 seconds like on Oceania, I'm perfectly capable to get up and get my coffee myself. Crowds are sometimes annoying, but not a deal breaker. But food on Celebrity is a bit disappointing to me, especially in the MDR. I know it's subjective, but I found food on Oceania few levels above, and this was a big factor to me.

What cabin type were you in? 

[ak1004]

8 minutes ago, Mynki said:

What cabin type were you in? 

 

We usually book inside, last time we were in concierge (got a free upgrade due to price drop). Makes absolutely no difference to us - the cabins are the same size, more than enough for us, and we use the cabin for sleep and shower only. Not using veranda at all.

[Mynki]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

We usually book inside, last time we were in concierge (got a free upgrade due to price drop). Makes absolutely no difference to us - the cabins are the same size, more than enough for us, and we use the cabin for sleep and shower only. Not using veranda at all.

 

Celebrity has evolved into a two tier line. Suite class and non suite class. There is no perfect apples to apples comparison when comparing lines but if you consider that :-

Suite class is aimed at those who'd sail with AZ and O amongst others. Non suite class targets the same market as Princess and HAL and similar lines etc. 

So I'm not really surprised you found the MDR to be a disappointment after sailing with AZ and O. Food quality and service is a big step up in Luminae though. 

Back to the apples to apples comparison or not in this case, I appreciate that non suite pax in AZ and O have access to the same restaurants atsuite pax. Hopefully that makes sense, but in short no 'foody' will rave about the MDR. 

[ak1004]

2 minutes ago, Mynki said:

 

Celebrity has evolved into a two tier line. Suite class and non suite class. There is no perfect apples to apples comparison when comparing lines but if you consider that :-

Suite class is aimed at those who'd sail with AZ and O amongst others. Non suite class targets the same market as Princess and HAL and similar lines etc. 

So I'm not really surprised you found the MDR to be a disappointment after sailing with AZ and O. Food quality and service is a big step up in Luminae though. 

Back to the apples to apples comparison or not in this case, I appreciate that non suite pax in AZ and O have access to the same restaurants atsuite pax. Hopefully that makes sense, but in short no 'foody' will rave about the MDR. 

 

I completely understand that. However, checking suite prices on Celebrity, I was not able to find anything close to Oceania prices. Since we don't care about the cabin size, we don't mind booking inside on Oceania. As an example, inside cabins on Oceania are around $300-350 CAD per night per person on average on most European cruises. On Celebrity, the cheapest suite I have seen was around $400 CAD per night, and most of them are much higher. And the food on Oceania is still better even compared to Luminae. The only thing I sacrifice on Oceania is entertainment, but even entertainment on our last Reflection cruise was very mediocre.

 

I completely understand that in terms of cabin, it is not fair to compare Oceania inside to Celebrity suite, but this is the part that we really don't care about, and inside works well for us.

 

That said, if we are about to find a good itinerary and suite price on Celebrity comparable to Oceania inside, we would definitely try it. 

[bikerunner]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

 

 

I completely understand that in terms of cabin, it is not fair to compare Oceania inside to Celebrity suite, but this is the part that we really don't care about, and inside works well for us.

 

That said, if we are about to find a good itinerary and suite price on Celebrity comparable to Oceania inside, we would definitely try it. 

I think Im getting to the point don't need the balcony also, just haven't tried it.  Might try it on a Bermuda cruise just to see how it is.  In truth The room is just a place for me store things and sleep.  I am out and about the rest of day. 

[Baron Barracuda]

1 hour ago, Mynki said:

 

Celebrity has evolved into a two tier line. Suite class and non suite class. There is no perfect apples to apples comparison when comparing lines but if you consider that :-

Suite class is aimed at those who'd sail with AZ and O amongst others. Non suite class targets the same market as Princess and HAL and similar lines etc. 

So I'm not really surprised you found the MDR to be a disappointment after sailing with AZ and O. Food quality and service is a big step up in Luminae though. 

Back to the apples to apples comparison or not in this case, I appreciate that non suite pax in AZ and O have access to the same restaurants atsuite pax. Hopefully that makes sense, but in short no 'foody' will rave about the MDR. 

 

Recognize that fewer than 10% of passengers (but seemingly 75% of this board) sail in suites and  have access to Luminae.  X may be receiving nosebleed prices for those suites, but it's not good business to disappoint the 90% who dine in mdr.  

[Pickels]

With refundable deposits, people can reserve this cruise, and that cruise and maybe another one over there, THEN, decide to cancel the ones they really don't want. No sweat, they'll get all of their deposits back.  Doing this, ties up cabins that are not available to others.  BUT, if the deposits are non-refundable, they may not tie up cabins making them available for others.  Did I make myself clear on this point, trying to get my opinion stated. 

[ak1004]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

I completely understand that. However, checking suite prices on Celebrity, I was not able to find anything close to Oceania prices. Since we don't care about the cabin size, we don't mind booking inside on Oceania. As an example, inside cabins on Oceania are around $300-350 CAD per night per person on average on most European cruises. On Celebrity, the cheapest suite I have seen was around $400 CAD per night, and most of them are much higher. And the food on Oceania is still better even compared to Luminae. The only thing I sacrifice on Oceania is entertainment, but even entertainment on our last Reflection cruise was very mediocre.

 

I completely understand that in terms of cabin, it is not fair to compare Oceania inside to Celebrity suite, but this is the part that we really don't care about, and inside works well for us.

 

That said, if we are about to find a good itinerary and suite price on Celebrity comparable to Oceania inside, we would definitely try it. 

 

Here is some comparisons for Greece/Italy cruise next May/June:

 

 

This is on Infinity, Edge is more expensive.

 

Now Oceania, a very similar 11 nights cruise:

 

 

Oceania includes taxes, Celebrity taxes are extra.

 

Inside is only $300 CAD more, veranda is $1,000 CAD more, but the room is 20% bigger. And Oceania price includes free internet, all non alcoholic drinks etc. Celebrity suite (which is only slightly bigger than Oceania veranda) is almost $6,500 CAD. And Oceania has refundable deposit. And the Infinity is 10 years older.

 

I just don't see why anyone would book Celebrity at those prices.

[Redtravel]

35 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

Here is some comparisons for Greece/Italy cruise next May/June:

 

 

This is on Infinity, Edge is more expensive.

 

Now Oceania, a very similar 11 nights cruise:

 

 

Oceania includes taxes, Celebrity taxes are extra.

 

Inside is only $300 CAD more, veranda is $1,000 CAD more, but the room is 20% bigger. And Oceania price includes free internet, all non alcoholic drinks etc. Celebrity suite (which is only slightly bigger than Oceania veranda) is almost $6,500 CAD. And Oceania has refundable deposit. And the Infinity is 10 years older.

 

I just don't see why anyone would book Celebrity at those prices.

You are right. We did the math, took Oceania, and were very happy. Celebrity does a nice cruise. However, prices went up while service went down. It made us look at other vacation options. 

[Ken the cruiser]

21 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

We never had any "issues" with Celebrity. It does everything "good", just not "excellent". If I had to give marks, most departments (service, food, cabins, entertainment) would probably get around 7 out of 10, maybe some 8 and some 6. For comparison, Oceania would get 9-10 in most departments, but entertainment is probably 5-6. In my opinion, this is the strength (but also the weakness) of Celebrity. It provides a good, well balanced package. Nothing is really bad, but nothing is really excellent. We enjoyed our last Reflection cruise very much, but it was not Oceania. Which is fine. 

On the other hand from our perspective, we can book a sky suite with all 4 perks for about the same price as an Oceania Concierge balcony cabin on similar cruises.

 

For example the food served in the Luminae is equal to that served on any O ship. The unlimited Internet service (for 2) on X is MUCH better than the one unlimited internet account per cabin on any of the O ships. The entertainment is MUCH better and more diverse on X and you get a free premium beverage package on X as well. Plus you get $300 OBC on top of that. 

 

Other than O offering a “more relaxing” cruise with their smaller ships, from our perspective we see no advantage of booking an A cabin on O versus a Sky Suite on X.

[Mynki]

4 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

 

Recognize that fewer than 10% of passengers (but seemingly 75% of this board) sail in suites and  have access to Luminae.  X may be receiving nosebleed prices for those suites, but it's not good business to disappoint the 90% who dine in mdr.  

 

I don't believe 75% of board members do sail in suites to be honest. I believe there is a disproportionate number of posts relating to suites, but that is simply because there  is more to discuss about them than some other classes of accommodation. 

 

I've not analyzed Celebrity's accounts for the last few years so can't comment on how the deterioration of the MDR has affected business.

 

[Mynki]

6 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

I completely understand that. However, checking suite prices on Celebrity, I was not able to find anything close to Oceania prices. Since we don't care about the cabin size, we don't mind booking inside on Oceania. As an example, inside cabins on Oceania are around $300-350 CAD per night per person on average on most European cruises. On Celebrity, the cheapest suite I have seen was around $400 CAD per night, and most of them are much higher. And the food on Oceania is still better even compared to Luminae. The only thing I sacrifice on Oceania is entertainment, but even entertainment on our last Reflection cruise was very mediocre.

 

I completely understand that in terms of cabin, it is not fair to compare Oceania inside to Celebrity suite, but this is the part that we really don't care about, and inside works well for us.

 

That said, if we are about to find a good itinerary and suite price on Celebrity comparable to Oceania inside, we would definitely try it. 

 

 

In that case you're probably best booking an inside cabin on an E class or S class ship complete with specialty dining package as that may well be the closest fit to what you're looking for. 

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

On the other hand from our perspective, we can book a sky suite with all 4 perks for about the same price as an Oceania Concierge balcony cabin on similar cruises.

 

For example the food served in the Luminae is equal to that served on any O ship. The unlimited Internet service (for 2) on X is MUCH better than the one unlimited internet account per cabin on any of the O ships. The entertainment is MUCH better and more diverse on X and you get a free premium beverage package on X as well. Plus you get $300 OBC on top of that. 

 

Other than O offering a “more relaxing” cruise with their smaller ships, from our perspective we see no advantage of booking an A cabin on O versus a Sky Suite on X.

 

True. But suite cheapest prices on Celebrity many times come with no perks, you have to pay more to get the perks. Plus you can select Oceania veranda, not sure what are the benefits of Oceania Concierge balcony.

 

Our internet on Celebrity was pretty pathetic, Oceania was no better (the only time we had really good internet was on Princess). I agree regrading entertainment in general, although the entertainment on our last Reflection cruise was not the best (but this is probably an exception).

 

That said, if I could find a cruise on Celebrity where suite price was comparable to Oceania veranda, with all 4 perks, I would probably give it a try. 

 

P.S. Is food in Luminae really comparable to Oceania? 

[grandgeezer]

2 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

On the other hand from our perspective, we can book a sky suite with all 4 perks for about the same price as an Oceania Concierge balcony cabin on similar cruises.

.

 

Nov. 16, seven day Caribbean cruise on the Equinox, with all four perks. $3,124.50  p.p. total for Sky Suite

Nov. 16, seven day Caribbean cruise on Oceania Insignia, with, internet,  drink package, and economy air from Phoenix $2299 p.p. total for a Penthouse Suite.  Add $311, total, for tips and $150 obc p.p., to almost make it apples to apples. New total is $2610 p.p. total. Wait a second, it's still not apples to apples, Oceania include economy air. According to choiceair.com, the cheapest fare is on United for $493 p.p. and the flight times suck.

Adding the airfare to Celebrity to get it close to apples to apples comparison, the new pricing is $3617.50 for Celebrity... $2610 for Oceania.

My mistake, the Concierge cabin was the one mentioned. In that case, subtract $49 p.p. from tips, and $400 p.p. from cruise price. New Oceania price $2269

Just about the same price???

 

I used Nov 16 date because that's what we would have booked if we had more time after our previous cruise which docks October 19 on MSC. Too much air travel in such a short time.

[The_Big_M]

11 hours ago, Mynki said:

So I'm not really surprised you found the MDR to be a disappointment after sailing with AZ and O. Food quality and service is a big step up in Luminae though. 

 

Food in Luminae is a big step up - true. But given it only caters for ~100? people a sitting the range is really limited, and they then use the MDR menu as a fallback which gets you back to step 1. Plus you have limited hours as well again because of the smaller coverage.

 

My last cruise there were a couple of nights where there was nothing on the limited Luminae range that appealed, and I actually went hungry, just having some salads in the buffet - which are cut back from what they once were.

 

So even though the quality is good, the dining can still be disappointing in Luminae just due to the limited size and numbers it deals with.