Incident on Britannia

[jeanlyon]

My brain has remembered.  Oh dear we were in a port in the Middle East on Balmoral also next to a German ship and the same thing happened.  It was embarrassing.

[dgs1956]

1 hour ago, ollienbertsmum said:

 

Oh no!  Is this a regular thing?  Is it easy to avoid if you are on your own balcony?  

 

I have a Norwegian Fjords trip booked for 2020 on the Iona.  I got a great deal on an aft balcony which I am reluctant to give up.  it would be my first cruise with P and O.  

 

First it seems like jackets are compulsory for men on formal nights (flying in and don't want to waste precious kilos on a jacket in summer).  Now Rule Britannia?  Maybe I should stick with NCL!!

 

Can anyone persuade me that it will be all right??

I couldn't find a "head shaking" emoji to reply.

[Harry Peterson]

2 hours ago, ollienbertsmum said:

 

Oh no!  Is this a regular thing?  Is it easy to avoid if you are on your own balcony?  

 

I have a Norwegian Fjords trip booked for 2020 on the Iona.  I got a great deal on an aft balcony which I am reluctant to give up.  it would be my first cruise with P and O.  

 

First it seems like jackets are compulsory for men on formal nights (flying in and don't want to waste precious kilos on a jacket in summer).  Now Rule Britannia?  Maybe I should stick with NCL!!

 

Can anyone persuade me that it will be all right??

It's not as bad as you might think.  P&O isn't the most upmarket of outfits these days - far from it, despite its advertising - but brawls are rare.  I doubt you'd come across one.

 

I share your concerns about formal nights (DJ or dark suit - not even just jackets) but P&O, like many of its customers, cling to the past.

 

Aft balconies are nice.  If you got a good price, stick to it - the view's good, and so is the food.  Just ignore the Brexit Little Englanders!

[brian1]

2 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

Dai says it was not a clown Brian..,

Thats our bit of fun ruined...😀

Andy 

If the newspapers say it was a clown,it must be true.

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, AnnieC said:

Similar happened to us about 10 years ago - leaving a German port (Warnemunde), some of the locals waved us off. P&O thanked them by blasting out "The Dambusters". Most seem to think it was funny.

I would have been ashamed.

[Daftlad]

Probably already been pointed out, but I've read that the incident was supposed to have broken out as a result of fancy dress being worn on a black tie night.

The last night of any cruise I have been on does not have black tie dress code.

Very sensationalist stuff which will pander to those with pre-conceived ideas on cruise clientele.

[Velvetwater]

 

Ah...good old P&O with their classy adverts!

 

I'm just going to defend the rep young cruisers get that has been mentioned in this thread. I started cruising aged 27 and I am nothing like the 18-30 crowd. Some of us young cruisers do have class and no kids.

 

Also...the essex couple have been released.

[AnnieC]

15 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

I would have been ashamed.

Add appalled to that.

[daiB]

4 hours ago, Selbourne said:

 

I believe that P&O have ‘theme nights’ as opposed to fancy dress. Therefore an 80’s theme night is intended to be clothing styles as worn in that era. Certainly that’s how it’s always been interpreted on our cruises, albeit by the tiny proportion of passengers that participate. Fancy dress, on the other hand, is a different matter and forbidden under P&O’s dress code and behaviour policy. I haven’t seen the film Beetlejuice but having just googled it, there is no way that anyone looking like that would be acceptable! Clearly there is never an excuse for a fight, but P&O staff should have explained to the individual that they had misunderstood the policy. 

 

Whilst I have no knowledge of this incident, the reporting is laughable. On the Sky News newspaper review last night the reviewer stated that “apparently, on P&O, you can pay extra to go on cruises where fancy dress is banned and someone who had done so took exception to someone in a clown outfit”. I also cannot see that there would have been ‘families’ around in the early hours of the morning and I’d be surprised if anyone other than the two parties involved and the poor staff who had to intervene were affected. Much as I hate sail away events, I can see no link there whatsoever. 

 

Finally, without wishing to get too involved in the debate about passenger profile changes and differences between ships, having been on all ships in the P&O fleet several times each, we certainly notice the differences. The larger ‘resort’ style ships definitely attract a broader cross section of society than the more traditional ships, whereas the smaller ships such as Aurora are much closer to the passenger profile that we experienced on our first P&O cruise back in 1996, with a predominately retired passenger base. We have never seen a fight, but we are usually in bed by around 11pm. That said, we have seen two incidents where violence looked like it might break out - one was on Britannia and one was on Ventura. 

Selbourne, wearing an outfit from a 80’s cult film on an 80’s night is well within the P&O parameters. However that is irrelevant as P&O have confirmed there was no clown or other fancy dress person involved. So the bulk of the report picked up by many papers and TV stations was garbage. 

 

What did happen was that two two small groups of drunk idiots had a fight in the buffet at 2 in the morning. Totally unexceptionable. Unfortunately this happened on the way to Southampton so both groups could not be put off the ship in Norway.

 

The fact it was on the same day as a sail away party was totally irrelevant.

[Tablelamp]

On 7/27/2019 at 2:05 PM, Harry Peterson said:

Sadly, it’s just another manifestation of the changing demographic of cruisers today.

 

It’s not so much the declining standards of P&O that worries me. It’s the declining standards of the people on its ships.

 

[Tablelamp]

I totally agree about the declining standards of some passengers.  However, if P and O lay down guidelines re ‘dress codes’ and ‘suitable behaviour’, they need to enforce them.  What has happened to the peaceful sailing days and why are some people adverse to quiet!

[netchells]

7 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

No, you haven't been reading my posts.  We always have an inside!  And not on Ventura. I can't remember the name of the Headliners show back in April, but my friend who travels with us and she is an ex professional singer/dancer, said it was West End level.  It was superb.  That was on Aurora.

Oh I'm sorry Jean I have mixed you up with someone else...apologies.

[AndyMichelle]

12 minutes ago, daiB said:

Selbourne, wearing an outfit from a 80’s cult film on an 80’s night is well within the P&O parameters. However that is irrelevant as P&O have confirmed there was no clown or other fancy dress person involved. So the bulk of the report picked up by many papers and TV stations was garbage. 

 

What did happen was that two two small groups of drunk idiots had a fight in the buffet at 2 in the morning. Totally unexceptionable. Unfortunately this happened on the way to Southampton so both groups could not be put off the ship in Norway.

 

The fact it was on the same day as a sail away party was totally irrelevant.

Dai,

I have not seen any tv reports, most of what I know has come from you and others on this site.

I had no reason to doubt what you were saying as your reputation as a great source of P&O knowledge and balanced contributor precedes you. 

You said earlier that it was not in the buffet and someone was wearing a Beetlejuice outfit.

Now nobody was in fancy dress and it was in the buffet.

It seems like the 'garbage' reporting has been given legs by yourself, unintentionally of course, but just shows how things can spiral.

Andy

[Captain_Morgan]

I've just finished reading all of the comments here and the one thing that I've not noticed (stand to be corrected) is a single comment referencing RSA (responsible service of alcohol).  Admittedly there is an assumption that alcohol was involved, which in the absence of firsthand information is probably a safe guess given most issues I've seen or been made aware of in my 20 years of cruising all had alcohol as the common denominator.

 

That said, i can agree that since Carnival Corp. took over there has been a steady degradation in the quality of the passengers as we've seen on Princess both sailing from North America and the UK.  Yes this is a blanket statement, but in our experiences the cost of the trip and the length/time of year were always determining factors in what demographic we'd encounter.  Sadly though, as can be seen with Carnival Cruises in the US,  the 7 day or less cruises are the money makers because they sell loads of booze, casinos are busy, and a larger number of people can afford to take 7 days or less off work, etc and when you've got ships which hold 3000+ passengers what's the easiest way to fill them??  sell them cheap and keep them turning around quickly which doesn't always mean well behaved passengers.

 

As for the comments made about going the route of Viking or Oceania with smaller ships and a perception of higher class, the reality is that those lines don't make the same kinds of money as P&O because they don't have all the 'extras' which when multiplied by several thousand = massive revenue generation whereas the lines mentioned rely on a higher price point with smaller passenger count.

 

 

[hampshirelad]

On all the big cruise lines the default passenger is now "Free Drinks inside Cabin "  Get up at mid day and drink till midnight. Its has been a race to the bottom for the last 10 years. I am surprise that Britannia is not dispensing "Lip Filler " in the Spa !!

Looking at the previous post the seven day holiday is the default for our North American friends who tend to take less holidays than those of us in Europe. This is possibly linked to our generous social security benefits. In the USA you seem to be able to fall a long way very quickly unless you are firing on all cylinders.

[Captain_Morgan]

2 minutes ago, hampshirelad said:

On all the big cruise lines the default passenger is now "Free Drinks inside Cabin "  Get up at mid day and drink till midnight. Its has been a race to the bottom for the last 10 years. I am surprise that Britannia is not dispensing "Lip Filler " in the Spa !!

Looking at the previous post the seven day holiday is the default for our North American friends who tend to take less holidays than those of us in Europe. This is possibly linked to our generous social security benefits. In the USA you seem to be able to fall a long way very quickly unless you are firing on all cylinders.

 

Totally agree with your assessment on all fronts.  Being NA based, we like to travel outside of our borders and wherever possible away from our brethren, not because we feel indifferent but because we know there's so much more to see and learn when visiting and socializing with a wide range of people/cultures, etc.

 

That said, from what we've seen of the mainstream brands the concept of cruising has become so much a regular holiday choice in comparison to what it was 20 years ago.  This of course is great for a multitude of reasons, especially given the wide range of choice available; however, there is unfortunately going to be issues of all kinds whenever you group thousands of strangers together in a confined space for a prolonged duration of time with a finite amount of space for all to share, and when you add booze, bad attitudes, and general social dysfunction its going to be a recipe for disaster.

 

 

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, hampshirelad said:

On all the big cruise lines the default passenger is now "Free Drinks inside Cabin "  Get up at mid day and drink till midnight. Its has been a race to the bottom for the last 10 years. I am surprise that Britannia is not dispensing "Lip Filler " in the Spa !!

Looking at the previous post the seven day holiday is the default for our North American friends who tend to take less holidays than those of us in Europe. This is possibly linked to our generous social security benefits. In the USA you seem to be able to fall a long way very quickly unless you are firing on all cylinders.

P&O have only recently started selling fully inclusive drinks packages at £39-95pp and currently do not offer "free" drinks packages like many mass market cruise lines.

[dazlight]

The drinks package won’t have nothing to do with it as you can just buy as much as you want. Some people get drunk and get angry and act like idiots. Seen it all over in different country’s. 

[Rupert2251]

2 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

Dai,

I have not seen any tv reports, most of what I know has come from you and others on this site.

I had no reason to doubt what you were saying as your reputation as a great source of P&O knowledge and balanced contributor precedes you. 

You said earlier that it was not in the buffet and someone was wearing a Beetlejuice outfit.

Now nobody was in fancy dress and it was in the buffet.

It seems like the 'garbage' reporting has been given legs by yourself, unintentionally of course, but just shows how things can spiral.

Andy

Like I said earlier.... Chinese  Whispers!!

[daiB]

4 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

Dai,

I have not seen any tv reports, most of what I know has come from you and others on this site.

I had no reason to doubt what you were saying as your reputation as a great source of P&O knowledge and balanced contributor precedes you. 

You said earlier that it was not in the buffet and someone was wearing a Beetlejuice outfit.

Now nobody was in fancy dress and it was in the buffet.

It seems like the 'garbage' reporting has been given legs by yourself, unintentionally of course, but just shows how things can spiral.

Andy

Sorry Andy i did not make it clear earlier. I ment the clown outfit was not in the buffet. The fight certainly was. This has now been confirmed by P&O one of the few comments they made. The story has been given legs by news media, press and TV repeating what the reporter on board had said. He of course only came on the incident some time after it had happened and could only pick up scraps. He linked it to the GBS and somehow picked up on a story about a clown. 

Reading everything the closest i can get to some truth is that there were 2 groups in the buffet. 1 group were loud and swearing and the others who may or may not have had children with them objected to the swearing. The fight ensued. One can only speculate that perhaps one person called another a clown during the initial stages and this became the 'clown story'.

 

What i would say is that the press love to get a story against cruise companies and cruisers. They seem to be reported with much relish.

[gatour]

3 hours ago, hampshirelad said:

On all the big cruise lines the default passenger is now "Free Drinks inside Cabin "  Get up at mid day and drink till midnight. Its has been a race to the bottom for the last 10 years. I am surprise that Britannia is not dispensing "Lip Filler " in the Spa !!

 

I will first respond to the above quote, but I will later have other responses for some of the other things posted here

 

The "free drinks inside cabin" is a ludicrous statement.  The big cruise lines are building ships with lots and lots of balconies, because that is what people want and will pay extra for.   They have even been know to weld on balconies on older ships that were originally built without balconies, just so they can charge higher prices.  For newer ships the cabins with balconies vs cabins without is around the 70/30 percent range.

 

 Now for the rest, you need a bit of  context.  I am a native born Floridian in the mid 50's and have lived here most of my life.  While not living in the typical tourist areas, i.e.  Orlando, Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Daytona, I have taken multiple trips to those areas.  I have also been cruising since 1981 and have used most of the mass market lines

 

My opinion one:  There have been statements about people in other countries looking "down" on British people because they are troublemakers.  (and by British, I mean the country where London, Bath etc is located.  Don't quite get the nuance between British and English, so indulge me).

 

I believe if you asked most people in the hospitality industry in the tourist areas, they would consider British people are no worse or better in their behavior in comparison to other countries and even people who reside in the US.

 

If you asked me I concur, their are boorish people no matter their country of residence.

 

My opinion two:  Cost of the actual booking and drink packages affecting the type of clientele that book cruises.   When I first started cruising, drink prices were ridiculously cheap as compared to on shore prices.  The cruise line was passing on the duty free alcohol prices to the consumers.  After 10 or so  years, they figured out they could charge on shore prices for the same drink, thus pocketing the difference.  They could keep the revenues the same or actually increase them, while keeping the cabin booking price the same.  They just ratchet up the drink prices.

 

What actually affects the passenger make up is the time of year and/or if it is a weekend cruise vs mid week cruise.  For example, we did a B2B cruise.  First leg was a 4 night weekend cruise, the second leg was a 5 night midweek cruise.  The passenger was vastly different.  The first leg had a lot of 20/30 year old "partiers".  The second leg was many middle aged and older people where things were more sedate.  Was one leg better than the other, no, just different.

 

So in summary, making generalizations is a fool's game.  If I made generalizations just based country of origin, income, etc.  I would have not met the interesting people, I have had the pleasure to meet over the last 50 years of my life, and hope to continue to meet in the future.

 

 

[Tarquin]

We attended a Great British Sailaway on Oceana a few weeks ago and whilst i'm all for a bit of pomp and circumstance, patriotism and can see the humorous side, I couldn't help thinking that the majority of staff from overseas, guests who through age or country of origin, would feel somewhat alienated.

Somewhat ironically whilst out drinking with an old schoolmate over the weekend who was once a P&O employee, he told me that his distinctly British surname came about when his father changed his name having emigrated to England from Germany.

 

The point being that P&O cannot possibly know how many people they are offending when running the GBS.

 

Back on the topic in hand. Lots of talk of alcohol but no consideration as to whether any other 'recreational additives' were to blame here. 😉

Edited July 29, 2019 by Tarquin

[brian1]

14 hours ago, Velvetwater said:

 

Ah...good old P&O with their classy adverts!

 

I'm just going to defend the rep young cruisers get that has been mentioned in this thread. I started cruising aged 27 and I am nothing like the 18-30 crowd. Some of us young cruisers do have class and no kids.

 

Also...the essex couple have been released.

ESSEX,what,that's the first time I've heard that.Fake news.The clown is another matter,more feasible I think.

[P&O SUE]

5 hours ago, gatour said:

I will first respond to the above quote, but I will later have other responses for some of the other things posted here

 

The "free drinks inside cabin" is a ludicrous statement.  The big cruise lines are building ships with lots and lots of balconies, because that is what people want and will pay extra for.   They have even been know to weld on balconies on older ships that were originally built without balconies, just so they can charge higher prices.  For newer ships the cabins with balconies vs cabins without is around the 70/30 percent range.

 

 Now for the rest, you need a bit of  context.  I am a native born Floridian in the mid 50's and have lived here most of my life.  While not living in the typical tourist areas, i.e.  Orlando, Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Daytona, I have taken multiple trips to those areas.  I have also been cruising since 1981 and have used most of the mass market lines

 

My opinion one:  There have been statements about people in other countries looking "down" on British people because they are troublemakers.  (and by British, I mean the country where London, Bath etc is located.  Don't quite get the nuance between British and English, so indulge me).

 

I believe if you asked most people in the hospitality industry in the tourist areas, they would consider British people are no worse or better in their behavior in comparison to other countries and even people who reside in the US.

 

If you asked me I concur, their are boorish people no matter their country of residence.

 

My opinion two:  Cost of the actual booking and drink packages affecting the type of clientele that book cruises.   When I first started cruising, drink prices were ridiculously cheap as compared to on shore prices.  The cruise line was passing on the duty free alcohol prices to the consumers.  After 10 or so  years, they figured out they could charge on shore prices for the same drink, thus pocketing the difference.  They could keep the revenues the same or actually increase them, while keeping the cabin booking price the same.  They just ratchet up the drink prices.

 

What actually affects the passenger make up is the time of year and/or if it is a weekend cruise vs mid week cruise.  For example, we did a B2B cruise.  First leg was a 4 night weekend cruise, the second leg was a 5 night midweek cruise.  The passenger was vastly different.  The first leg had a lot of 20/30 year old "partiers".  The second leg was many middle aged and older people where things were more sedate.  Was one leg better than the other, no, just different.

 

So in summary, making generalizations is a fool's game.  If I made generalizations just based country of origin, income, etc.  I would have not met the interesting people, I have had the pleasure to meet over the last 50 years of my life, and hope to continue to meet in the future.

 

 

 

I quite agree. I found that first remark you quoted offensive, I often have an inside cabin but I don’t have the drink package as I don’t drink enough!

I am 54 and my husband 58 and we know how to behave! Shocking generalisations in this thread!

[P&O SUE]

I also find this British don’t know how to behave amusing, the most rude passengers I’ve seen on a cruise were this year on Princess, and they weren’t British!