Touchy subject.... appropriate dress?

[c-boy]

die thread   ....  die !  

[MrsRoper]

1 minute ago, c-boy said:

die thread   ....  die !  

Yes - I think I have all the input I need now!!!  I’m sorry I asked!  Lol!  Please consider me schooled.  No further responses necessary.

[bonsai3s]

11 hours ago, MrsRoper said:

Yes - I think I have all the input I need now!!!  I’m sorry I asked!  Lol!  Please consider me schooled.  No further responses necessary.

 

MrsRoper...please kindly come back after your cruise and tell us what you experienced in the MDR.

You and your family will have a wonderful time.....we would be interested in what you saw versus what you read here on CC.  Happy Sailing! 😊

[clo]

On 8/5/2019 at 12:14 PM, navybankerteacher said:

“a fine dining establishment”,

This looks like one. 

[operakatz]

On 8/5/2019 at 7:30 PM, clo said:

Here, here!  

 

And as I'm sure you know, that's the GRAND Dining Room on Oceania's Marina.

 

It still amazes me that people and the cruise line (mostly) refuse to show the correct "attitude."

 

My cruise buddy last year was very stubborn about putting together a nicer outfit for gala night as she doesn't like dresses or "being fancy," etc. I helped her get around the mindblock by helping her assemble a dressy pant ensemble that was still "her" and explaining that there is fun to be had by "playing dressup" now and then...that it's like acting where you take on a different character and how would that character dress? Dressing for dinner, even if not in fancy stuff, can be transportive and adds to the experience...and it respects the effort put in by the executive chef and team to present high quality ingredients prepared to a high standard with beautiful presentation.

 

[clo]

1 minute ago, operakatz said:

 

My cruise buddy last year was very stubborn about putting together a nicer outfit for gala night as she doesn't like dresses or "being fancy," etc. I helped her get around the mindblock by helping her assemble a dressy pant ensemble that was still "her" and explaining that there is fun to be had by "playing dressup" now and then...that it's like acting where you take on a different character and how would that character dress? Dressing for dinner, even if not in fancy stuff, can be transportive and adds to the experience...and it respects the effort put in by the executive chef and team to present high quality ingredients prepared to a high standard with beautiful presentation.

 

Perfect.

 

Now that black-tie has mostly gone away, it's a lot easier.  I have a couple of long, dark, 'swirly' skirts that I can put tunic-type tops with, nice pointed toe flats (Rothy's) and not much else. 

[operakatz]

1 minute ago, clo said:

Perfect.

 

Now that black-tie has mostly gone away, it's a lot easier.  I have a couple of long, dark, 'swirly' skirts that I can put tunic-type tops with, nice pointed toe flats (Rothy's) and not much else. 

 

I used my "former opera singer living on ramen" persona to find a classic type of floor length dress (so easy now with maxi dresses back in) that could present as "gown" for all of $45. Black rayon jersey simple bodice with full B&W skirt. Found some super-fun cheap costume jewelry, had a blast.

[clo]

3 minutes ago, operakatz said:

 

I used my "former opera singer living on ramen" persona to find a classic type of floor length dress (so easy now with maxi dresses back in) that could present as "gown" for all of $45. Black rayon jersey simple bodice with full B&W skirt. Found some super-fun cheap costume jewelry, had a blast.

I wonder if some of the issue - or all of the issue - is that people aren't dressing like this at home.  When we go out to a nice restaurant anywhere for dinner I'll dress similarly.  It's a little event 🙂

Edited August 18, 2019 by clo

[operakatz]

6 minutes ago, clo said:

I wonder if some of the issue - or all of the issue - is that people aren't dressing like this at home.  When we go out to a nice restaurant anywhere for dinner I'll dress similarly.  It's a little event 🙂

 

I think too often these days our lives are too busy already with stuff and overall things are more casual. Just look at the almost complete disappearance of office attire. Generally I think that's a good thing, but it's also good to give oneself a chance for an event to step outside of the typical day-to-day routine. There is a certain human magic to ritual so IME, it's important to participate in those rituals every now and then.

Edited August 18, 2019 by operakatz

[Storm Monkey]

On 8/2/2019 at 12:36 AM, mom says said:

Princess has a published dress code on its website. If the dress requirements are too onerous,  perhaps your family would be more comfortable on a more casual line like Carnival.

 

On our last Carnival cruise we saw more people dressed more formally on the dress up nights than I saw on our princess cruise previous during formal nights. I only brought a cocktail dress on our carnival cruise and I felt underdressed. So I feel your comment here is a bit off the mark. 

 

In my experience, Princess does enforce the part of their dress code that says no shorts at dinner in the MDR. The only exception I have seen to this is on a Caribbean cruise when the man had a large cast on his leg that prevented pant wearing and he had on dress shorts. 

[QueSeraSera]

2 hours ago, clo said:

When we go out to a nice restaurant anywhere for dinner I'll dress similarly.

 

2 hours ago, operakatz said:

so IME, it's important to participate in those rituals every now and then

 

If only ties weren't so uncomfortable (tuxes even worse).  I'm hoping everyone will be ok with dress shirt, sport jacket, and dark pants

[clo]

1 minute ago, QueSeraSera said:

 

 

If only ties weren't so uncomfortable (tuxes even worse).  I'm hoping everyone will be ok with dress shirt, sport jacket, and dark pants

I asked about that for our cruise on Oceania and was told that a sports jacket wasn't necessary.  Bob will likely wear a bit 'nicer' slacks to specialty restaurants and a Docker-style pants to the GDR.  Their 'code' is "country club casual."

[lifes-a-beach]

14 hours ago, operakatz said:

 

My cruise buddy last year was very stubborn about putting together a nicer outfit for gala night as she doesn't like dresses or "being fancy," etc. I helped her get around the mindblock by helping her assemble a dressy pant ensemble that was still "her" and explaining that there is fun to be had by "playing dressup" now and then...that it's like acting where you take on a different character and how would that character dress? Dressing for dinner, even if not in fancy stuff, can be transportive and adds to the experience...and it respects the effort put in by the executive chef and team to present high quality ingredients prepared to a high standard with beautiful presentation.

 

What a great perspective.  I love your use of “transportive” to describe the experience.  Nicely done, thank you.

[pacruise804]

12 hours ago, QueSeraSera said:

 

 

If only ties weren't so uncomfortable (tuxes even worse).  I'm hoping everyone will be ok with dress shirt, sport jacket, and dark pants

Most likely someone will be offended - either that you are dressed that well or not dressed better 😉 

 

What you have described sounds very appropriate and on the higher end of dress for many of the casual lines formal/elegant nights.  I've noticed the no tie look quite often lately and a properly fitted evening/dress shirt will generally look better than a basic office button-up with tie.  If you are uncomfortable, it will generally show while if you are at ease in what you are wearing that confidence will help dress up your outfit in an unspoken way.

[RocketMan275]

15 hours ago, operakatz said:

 

My cruise buddy last year was very stubborn about putting together a nicer outfit for gala night as she doesn't like dresses or "being fancy," etc. I helped her get around the mindblock by helping her assemble a dressy pant ensemble that was still "her" and explaining that there is fun to be had by "playing dressup" now and then...that it's like acting where you take on a different character and how would that character dress? Dressing for dinner, even if not in fancy stuff, can be transportive and adds to the experience...and it respects the effort put in by the executive chef and team to present high quality ingredients prepared to a high standard with beautiful presentation.

 

Once upon a time, long, long ago, I would have shared your opinion that "there is fun to be had by "playing dress up".   I much older now and I no longer belive it "adds to the experience."   

Edited August 19, 2019 by RocketMan275

[clo]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

I much older now and I no longer belive it "adds to the experience." 

I'm 72, retired and have few 'excuses' to dress up just a tad.  I enjoy it.  And, no, I'm not talking ties for men, just a little nicer than hitting McDs for lunch.

[c-boy]

 I believe, what we wear as attire reflects our attitude. 

[Icon901]

18 hours ago, operakatz said:

 

My cruise buddy last year was very stubborn about putting together a nicer outfit for gala night as she doesn't like dresses or "being fancy," etc. I helped her get around the mindblock by helping her assemble a dressy pant ensemble that was still "her" and explaining that there is fun to be had by "playing dressup" now and then...that it's like acting where you take on a different character and how would that character dress? Dressing for dinner, even if not in fancy stuff, can be transportive and adds to the experience...and it respects the effort put in by the executive chef and team to present high quality ingredients prepared to a high standard with beautiful presentation.

 

Excellent post here. Well said. 

The reality is that "dressing up" is loved by some, tolerated my many, and loathed by some. I am not a fan of neckties, but I generally overdress at the office with everything except the tie.

 

Many cite comfort as a reason not to dress up, but a quality pair of men's dress shoes, dress slacks, and button down shirt are actually VERY comfortable. I order my shirts tailored from England (TM Lewin or Charles Thyrwhitt) and find them to be of exceptional quality/style and can be had for an extremely reasonable $30-40USD on sale. Quality men's dress shoes can be nearly as comfortable as sneakers/running shoes. (Check out the Cole Haan Zer0Grand line for an example).

 

This is in no means meant to be a slight, but I've found that heavier-set folks tend to be more averse to dressing up. My guess would be this has at least a little to do with a limited number of stylish/comfortable options. It's hard to fault those individuals for not wanting to dress up. 

One side isn't going to convince the other on this issue, that's for sure. I would say, even if you're not going to wear a tie or jacket, men should at least try to wear a collared shirt, nice pants, and respectable shoes. That's certainly not too much to ask for a fairly formal dining environment. 

[donaldsc]

16 minutes ago, Icon901 said:

Excellent post here. Well said. 

The reality is that "dressing up" is loved by some, tolerated my many, and loathed by some. I am not a fan of neckties, but I generally overdress at the office with everything except the tie.

 

Many cite comfort as a reason not to dress up, but a quality pair of men's dress shoes, dress slacks, and button down shirt are actually VERY comfortable. I order my shirts tailored from England (TM Lewin or Charles Thyrwhitt) and find them to be of exceptional quality/style and can be had for an extremely reasonable $30-40USD on sale. Quality men's dress shoes can be nearly as comfortable as sneakers/running shoes. (Check out the Cole Haan Zer0Grand line for an example).

 

This is in no means meant to be a slight, but I've found that heavier-set folks tend to be more averse to dressing up. My guess would be this has at least a little to do with a limited number of stylish/comfortable options. It's hard to fault those individuals for not wanting to dress up. 

One side isn't going to convince the other on this issue, that's for sure. I would say, even if you're not going to wear a tie or jacket, men should at least try to wear a collared shirt, nice pants, and respectable shoes. That's certainly not too much to ask for a fairly formal dining environment. 

 

If you feel that you should wear a tie but don't want to, try a bolo tie.  They are very dressy but much more comfortable.

 

DON

[RocketMan275]

56 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm 72, retired and have few 'excuses' to dress up just a tad.  I enjoy it.  And, no, I'm not talking ties for men, just a little nicer than hitting McDs for lunch.

That's fantastic.  My issue comes when the 'dress up' crowd insists that everyone 'dress up'.  It's a big MDR, there's room for those who like to 'dress up' and for those who don't.

[RocketMan275]

21 minutes ago, Icon901 said:

Excellent post here. Well said. 
Many cite comfort as a reason not to dress up, but a quality pair of men's dress shoes, dress slacks, and button down shirt are actually VERY comfortable. I order my shirts tailored from England (TM Lewin or Charles Thyrwhitt) and find them to be of exceptional quality/style and can be had for an extremely reasonable $30-40USD on sale. Quality men's dress shoes can be nearly as comfortable as sneakers/running shoes. (Check out the Cole Haan Zer0Grand line for an example).

One side isn't going to convince the other on this issue, that's for sure. I would say, even if you're not going to wear a tie or jacket, men should at least try to wear a collared shirt, nice pants, and respectable shoes. That's certainly not too much to ask for a fairly formal dining environment. 

You totally misunderstand the comfort issue.  It's isn't a lack of clothes that fit or quality.  If I don't enjoy dressing up, then I'm uncomfortable regardless of fit or quality.

 

Any time someones tries to impose their values, "as the dress up crowd does", on another person, then that is too much to ask.  

[clo]

8 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

If I don't enjoy dressing up, then I'm uncomfortable regardless of fit or quality.

I'm curious how a pair of khaki pants, a collared knit shirt and a pair of loafers is uncomfortable compared to jeans, a tee shirt and tennies.  And I ask that sincerely.

[pacruise804]

38 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

That's fantastic.  My issue comes when the 'dress up' crowd insists that everyone 'dress up'.  It's a big MDR, there's room for those who like to 'dress up' and for those who don't.

 

While on a land vacation last month in Niagara Falls we stopped at the Skylon Tower.  I wish cruise ships had their dress code:

 

What is the Skylon Tower dress code?

Many visitors to the Skylon Tower are visiting for a variety of reasons from a casual evening dinner to a romantic anniversary celebration.  You will find guests dressed casually and more formal.  The entire experience is up to you and entirely welcome.

 

I found it to be a much more formal dining experience than most cruise ship MDR's, although they did have the tables super close together (yet we didn't hear other's conversations).  Our family had been touring the area all day so we were dressed much more casually than we would on a cruise, yet we were graciously welcomed and I never really noticed what anyone else was wearing and didn't feel out of place in our casual/athletic clothes.  Then again we were focused on each other, our delicious meal, and the fabulous view.  Unfortunately we can't all have the beautiful aft wake view in the MDR 😉 

[RocketMan275]

32 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm curious how a pair of khaki pants, a collared knit shirt and a pair of loafers is uncomfortable compared to jeans, a tee shirt and tennies.  And I ask that sincerely.

I'm quite comfortable in a pair of cargo pants, a polo shirt, and my 'tennies'.  However, I doubt that is sufficient for the 'dress to impress' crowd.  I sincerely ask why is what I choose to wear so important to others?  

Edited August 19, 2019 by RocketMan275

[clo]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

I'm quite comfortable in a pair of cargo pants, a polo shirt, and my 'tennies'.  However, I doubt that is sufficient for the 'dress to impress' crowd.  I sincerely ask why is what I choose to wear so important to others?  

It's the cruise lines.  If they have no dress code then go for it.