Comparing Cruise Lines/Ships

[Cruzaholic41]

5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Actually, yes.

 

 When you really look at the passenger mix (and not rely on “facts” posted on CC by people who know people who have heard about HAL from people who have actually sailed HAL ).

 

People who have actually said HAL, huh?  Well, I’m a 4 Star Mariner so I think I have a pretty good idea of the HAL experience. In general, yes, it is an old demographic on board. Denying that is sorta ignorant. 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

 

People who have actually said HAL, huh?  Well, I’m a 4 Star Mariner so I think I have a pretty good idea of the HAL experience. In general, yes, it is an old demographic on board. Denying that is sorta ignorant. 

The post you seem to be referring to said nothing about HAL not carrying an “old demographic”.  I simply agreed with the factually correct earlier post which questioned the claim that the majority of HAL passengers was over 60.  That claim is, in fact incorrect.  Yes, HAL does appeal to an older demographic - but the incorrect cliches about are incorrect — and swallowing them whole, and repeating them “... is sorta ignorant”.

[Cruzaholic41]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

The post you seem to be referring to said nothing about HAL not carrying an “old demographic”.  I simply agreed with the factually correct earlier post which questioned the claim that the majority of HAL passengers was over 60.  That claim is, in fact incorrect.  Yes, HAL does appeal to an older demographic - but the incorrect cliches about are incorrect — and swallowing them whole, and repeating them “... is sorta ignorant”.

 

On every single one of my HAL cruises, which have been many, the prevailing demographic was over 60. So stop trying to claim cliche because every time you say it, it’s just one more time you’re wrong. 

 

Or or keep saying it and keep being wrong. I don’t care. I think most are aware of the older clientele on HAL. 

[navybankerteacher]

35 minutes ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

 

On every single one of my HAL cruises, which have been many, the prevailing demographic was over 60. So stop trying to claim cliche because every time you say it, it’s just one more time you’re wrong. 

 

Or or keep saying it and keep being wrong. I don’t care. I think most are aware of the older clientele on HAL. 

 

Perhaps you should open your eyes to current reality :  as noted by Frommer’s in their evaluation of cruise lines:

 

”For years HAL was known for catering to an almost exclusively older crowd with most passengers in their 70’s on up. Today, following intensive efforts to attract younger passengers, about 25% of the line’s guests are under age 55 (WITH THE AVERAGE AGE BEING 57)”

 

 

Yes HAL does still attract an older demographic, but the mix has definitely swung downward.  Of course, if it makes you happy to still parrot the “everyone is over 70” cliche, go ahead.  

 

How recently have you sailed on HAL?

Edited August 28, 2019 by navybankerteacher

[Aquahound]

15 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

Well, I’m a 4 Star Mariner so I think I have a pretty good idea of the HAL experience. In general, yes, it is an old demographic on board. Denying that is sorta ignorant. 

 

My HAL experience is much more limited than yours.  I'm a slowly 2-star.  But I've cruised 3 ship classes....Vista, Signature, and their new Pinnacle Class and I'd say the bulk of the passengers on all were at least in their 60s.  I'd say upper 60s/low 70s were the largest group.  

[cruisegermany]

Hello! This is most likely the basic problem when it comes to find "the ship" for the next cruise. Many people love to stick with just one cruise line, and collect their points / nights to get all the tier perks. I always found this a bit boring, because sooner or later you'll know all menu cards by heart, can sing along during stage shows. And, most important, you might miss some other experience that you might love, too.

 

There are even big differences within the same cruise line, Norwegian Spirit (small) is different from Norwegian Encore (big), Vision of the Seas (small) feels different from Symphony of the Seas (XXL).

 

Check out Douglas Ward's "Cruise Bible" - The Berlitz Guide to Cruising and Cruise Ships. Watch Videos on Youtube. There are a lot of talented movie makers around doing full walk arounds on cruise ships, this might give you a clue.

[Hlitner]

On 8/27/2019 at 10:09 PM, navybankerteacher said:

 

Perhaps you should open your eyes to current reality :  as noted by Frommer’s in their evaluation of cruise lines:

 

”For years HAL was known for catering to an almost exclusively older crowd with most passengers in their 70’s on up. Today, following intensive efforts to attract younger passengers, about 25% of the line’s guests are under age 55 (WITH THE AVERAGE AGE BEING 57)”

 

 

Yes HAL does still attract an older demographic, but the mix has definitely swung downward.  Of course, if it makes you happy to still parrot the “everyone is over 70” cliche, go ahead.  

 

How recently have you sailed on HAL?

We will jump back in to this topic having spent over 500 days on HAL.  We accept that the HAL passenger demographic has changed on some of their shorter voyages, but we doubt that there has been any significant change on the longer and more exotic cruises (the bailiwick of HAL).   If you remove the shorter cruises (less than 10 days) from the stats you are likely to find that HAL is still attracting a crowd of Seniors and their Parents :).   And there is another issue on HAL which is the lack of live entertainment after 10pm.   While many of us have often compared HAL to a floating Assisted Living Facility (or nursing home) another comparison would be that most HAL cruises feel like a morgue after 10pm.   I have long wondered if the early evening death of HAL cruises is the result of the passengers simply being old, or is it caused by the lack of entertainment that drives many back to their cabins.  When we cruised on the Prinsendam (our long time favorite HAL vessel) the ship had a large library of DVD movies that were lent out for free!  For many, this was their main entertainment :(.   Perhaps the "suits" in Seattle had this in mind when they recently eliminated major "Production Shows" from all their ships.  HAL is still the only cruise line we have cruised (16 lines) that counts showing a nature documentary film in the main theater as their primary evening entertainment.   We have also been on some longer HAL cruises when they had "Dark Nights" which meant no major entertainment.  

 

Hank

[Shorex]

The book previously mentioned is probably Berlitz Cruising & Cruise Ships 2020 (Berlitz Cruise Guide).

For anyone wanting a relatively comprehensive guide to cruising that is much more informative and objective than anecdotal experiences it's worth the investment or trip to the library, plus it's a pleasant browse for cruise enthusiasts. You can probably get a bargain for last year's edition in a used book store.

 

The thumbnail pages on Amazon list the author's "7 questions to ask a travel agent." Actually, I have more than seven. Like any guide that claims to be "comprehensive", It's not the "be all and end all", but it's as close as it gets.

[SRF]

On 8/12/2019 at 4:55 PM, Lovincruisin1321 said:

Question - How do I find a good TA?   When I ask around (I live in a huge community) everyone thinks their TA is the BEST!

 

 

The question is similar to the original one, as it depends on what YOU want and need.

 

I have a small local TA.  Maybe they can't get me the group deals, but the response is excellent.  And they check daily for price drops and take advantage of them.

 

Also, a smaller local TA would be more likely to take the time to talk to you.  Find out what YOU like and want and expect.  Then suggest cruise and cruise lines to match.

The bog box TAs are more about making bookings.  QUICKLY and LOTS of them.  Less personal service.

 

Get advice from people you know, talk to the available TAs.  You will probably find one or two that you feel more comfortable with and match your needs.  Then make a booking with them.  See how it goes.  Maybe you pick one.  Or maybe you alternate two.

[Prost Seattle]

So I’m a complete noob to cruising, early 50s.  My Mom wanted to do a final blow out Hawai’i vacation, and we thought a cruise there then staying at a condo would serve us well.  My instinct was to book NCL or RCL as they had the big ships.  A friend had given me the name to a TA hat they swore by, so I decided to give her a visit.  Her feedback on the cruise lines was invaluable, taking in to account our ages (52,62, 84) and interests.  She recommended Celebrity as she felt the clientele might be more similar demographically and thus have food and programming that would interest us.  The cruise isn’t until Sep. 2020, but she seems to have matched us up well.  
 

My question then would be, are TAs unbiased, or are they going to push a cruise that gives them a bigger commission?  

[mom says]

9 hours ago, Prost Seattle said:

My question then would be, are TAs unbiased, or are they going to push a cruise that gives them a bigger commission?  

TAs are no different than anyone else in a sales oriented business. Some are only interested in funneling through as many customers as possible to get the largest paycheck, and will tout the biggest and newest, or those with all the bells and whistles, with the highest rates.  Then there are others who want to retain their customers repeat business. They are the ones who take the time to ascertain their clients preferences, get to know their likes and dislikes, as well as budget, and recommend accordingly. I would like to think that most TAs fall into the latter category. I know ours does, and we've been with him for well over 10 years now.

[Prost Seattle]

Thanks for the input.  I like our TA and I didn’t get the vibe from her that she was trying to pad her paycheck.  In fact I went up a couple of decks on the ship and she let me know it wouldn’t be an appreciable better experience, but I figured we’d be filer there from public areas.  

[clo]

On 8/27/2019 at 4:41 PM, navybankerteacher said:

The post you seem to be referring to said nothing about HAL not carrying an “old demographic”.  I simply agreed with the factually correct earlier post which questioned the claim that the majority of HAL passengers was over 60.  That claim is, in fact incorrect.  Yes, HAL does appeal to an older demographic - but the incorrect cliches about are incorrect — and swallowing them whole, and repeating them “... is sorta ignorant”.

What is "old" and I'm not joking.  It's a relative term.  I'm 72 and I know not a single person who would classify me as old.  And there are others at 60 who are old.  

[navybankerteacher]

53 minutes ago, clo said:

What is "old" and I'm not joking.  It's a relative term.  I'm 72 and I know not a single person who would classify me as old.  And there are others at 60 who are old.  

Well, young lady, I certainly agree — my younger daughter, now nearing 50, keeps wondering when I will grow up.

[clo]

28 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Well, young lady, I certainly agree — my younger daughter, now nearing 50, keeps wondering when I will grow up.

Tell her "NEVER."  And I tell ya now that I have pink hair THAT'S sure making a statement 🙂

[SRF]

12 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Well, young lady, I certainly agree — my younger daughter, now nearing 50, keeps wondering when I will grow up.

 

I have always lived by the saying, "I may grow old, but I refuse to grow up."

 

😄

 

 

[clo]

8 hours ago, SRF said:

 

I have always lived by the saying, "I may grow old, but I refuse to grow up."

 

😄

 

 

My grands think I'm very silly. (The oldest is turning 8.) I consider that high praise.

[lenquixote66]

I am entering my ninth decade of life in 2020 . I still listen to the same music that I listened to 65 years ago.

I began growing facial hair 57 years ago and still have it although it is white and no longer reddish brown.

 

I am not old,I only look old.

Edited November 13, 2019 by lenquixote66

[Aquahound]

18 hours ago, ronbe65 said:

 

As we talk about cruise lines, we have their best ships in mind.

 

 

I've noticed you have a tendency to try to pass your opinions off as fact.  The best ships of each line are clearly in the eyes of the beholder and are not facts.  I know plenty of people who opine Vision or Radiance Class to be RCI's best.  Likewise, there are people on this board who opine HAL's older, smaller ships to be their best ships.

 

I also disagree with your comment that Veendam does not represent HAL.  HAL still sails 6 of those older small ships, which accounts for just under 50% of their fleet.  

Edited January 1, 2020 by Aquahound

[Canuker]

OP: Rather than try - and fail - to analyse and categorize the whole cruise industry, to find a ship that fits your needs, it would be far easier - and more useful for you, if you were to say, list your top ten 'wants' in a cruise; then let's see which ships are a good 'fit' for you. And which length of cruise is best for your age too (demographics are closely tied to cruise length).
Your original post makes no mention of geography, so are we assuming that's not an issue here?

As one who is not particularly loyal to any one cruise line, I've long been of the opinion that main stream cruise ships are far more remarkable for their similarities than their differences.
The problem we invariably have is that there is always far more going on aboard ship than we can possibly get to during the voyage. So the choice become not what to do but what NOT to do, i.e. what to regrettably leave out.

[Cruzaholic41]

On 12/31/2019 at 6:41 PM, ronbe65 said:

 

Involute of a Circle

This is how this discussion is evolving.

The OP has a sample that is not representative, and makes totally wrong conclusion based on this sample.

Then someone else is grabbing this conclusion and inflating it, adding more and more irrelevant details.

And so and so on.

With every new step the curve is getting more distant from the real object...

 

 

 

Happy cruising!

I don’t understand the context of the pictures you posted. Please explain. 🤔

[Cruzaholic41]

3 hours ago, ronbe65 said:

Hi,

The key: I make difference between what I like and what  is best. I don't mix up these two things.

There are no criteria to assess what I like. I like means I like.

But the ships can be evaluated. This is a different story. There are criteria for that.

I operate with facts, and put IMO where necessary.

Example

I rate Oceania Riviera  higher than NCL Breakaway (design, passenger space inside/outside, accommodation, spa & fitness, food, entertainment). The Riviera is a higher quality product overall (by a narrow margin though).

However, I would choose the Breakaway any time for the same itinerary. This is my preference. 

It will be not professional to say that the Breakaway is a better ship.

The Riviera is better.

But the Breakaway  is better in certain things that are more important for me.

 

It's true (no doubt) that some cruisers prefer small RCI ships to the largest ones.

Does it make the Vision OTS a representative example of RCI product?

Of course not.

Imagine what RCI would look like these days without their largest ships in the fleet? 🙂

 

The six small older HAL ships carry about 25% of the passengers, may be less (roughly - IMO - I can calculate it, but it will take the whole day).

That's why I believe the Veendam experience is not an accurate representation of HAL product.

 

Happy cruising!

I totally agree with AH. 

 

For example, you said in one if your last posts: “For Princess: their two best ships are hard to catch - Sapphire and Diamond.

This fact alone makes them mysterious and inviting.“.
 

Notice you said “fact.”  That’s only one example of several similar claims. Nowhere in that post did you say IMO. 

[Cruzaholic41]

1 hour ago, ronbe65 said:

Hard_to_catch "makes them mysterious and inviting".

 

As to the ships,these two sisters have the highest passenger space ratio for the Grand class ships (43.4).

Their hulls are wider, so their bow to stern circle promenades are more spacious vs other sisters.

One of the pools is covered (vs Grand-Caribbean-Crown-Diamond-Ruby)

They feature spectacular forward viewing deck & aft observation lounge (vs Coral-Island).

happy cruising!

 

Great. But I never liked Grand Class. I think they’re hideous looking eyesores.  My favorite Princes ship is Coral.  So again, you’re only giving your opinion. 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, ronbe65 said:

I am familiar with these books.

Their rating  methodology is right.

But the implementation is discouraging. Some critically important reviews are not professional: surprisingly inaccurate, incomplete,  biased, misleading, full of mistakes.

Sometimes they review what they did not see, and don't see what needs to be reviewed.

Just a few fiction reviews from the books.

Enjoy "a pleasant browse for cruise enthusiasts":

Koningsdam

Independence of the Seas

Carnival Glory

 

Happy cruising!

 

Quick detour --

 

I looked at the Independence of the Seas link.  Why to the guys who make these YouTube videos always include these long lead-in title pages/music.  At 30 seconds I'm drumming my fingers.  At one minute I'm ready to shut it down.  Seems like everyone does this.  I wish they would stop.

 

OK, back to the regular programming.  Lol