Health inspections

[cuse165]

My question is based on a article and got me thinking. The article is this: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/carnival-fantasy-cruise-ship-fail-inspection.

I know what the company dose to fix the issues. But what happens to the ship right at that point? Are they inspected with guests on it and before they start a cruise? If so are they are you allowed to continue the cruise. Do they take the ship out of service? I want to know more what happens to the ship maybe people and not so much the company.

 

Thank you

[CruiserBruce]

Just down the board:

 

 

[Donald]

On the rare occasions when a ship fails a USPH inspection, usually nothing happens.

The USPH Inspectors do have the option and the authority to prevent the ship from sailing from a US port if they determine that the failure is a serious immediate threat the the health of the passengers and crew. Or they can bar the ship from entering any more US ports for the same reason. But that never happens.

 

Most failures are based on technical failings and not actual immediate health threats.

 

If a ship leaves the dining room tables set up for more than 4 hours, the baker leaves the scoop in a bin of rice, the dough sheeting machine in the bakery has loose threads showing, the dishwash machine wash water is too hot, chicken is stored in the same walk-in refrigerator with beef or butter, the cooks failed to write down what time they removed the soup from the blast chiller, food is served 4 hours and 1 minute after it was prepared,  and the engineers tested the pool water from a depth of 2 feet instead of 4 feet, the ship can fail an inspection. Will anyone's health suffer from any of these things? Most likely not.

 

And if they applied the same rules to any restaurant in America, every one of them would be shut down.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Donald

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

On the rare occasions when a ship fails a USPH inspection, usually nothing happens.

The USPH Inspectors do have the option and the authority to prevent the ship from sailing from a US port if they determine that the failure is a serious immediate threat the the health of the passengers and crew. Or they can bar the ship from entering any more US ports for the same reason. But that never happens.

 

Most failures are based on technical failings and not actual immediate health threats.

 

If a ship leaves the dining room tables set up for more than 4 hours, the baker leaves the scoop in a bin of rice, the dough sheeting machine in the bakery has loose threads showing, the dishwash machine wash water is too hot, chicken is stored in the same walk-in refrigerator with beef or butter, the cooks failed to write down what time they removed the soup from the blast chiller, food is served 4 hours and 1 minute after it was prepared,  and the engineers tested the pool water from a depth of 2 feet instead of 4 feet, the ship can fail an inspection. Will anyone's health suffer from any of these things? Most likely not.

 

And if they applied the same rules to any restaurant in America, every one of them would be shut down.

 

So I think you are saying the things you list require remedial action, not the shut down of the ship's kitchen.  So I'm not seeing how the same rules would shut down an American restaurant.   Just not following.   

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

On the rare occasions when a ship fails a USPH inspection, usually nothing happens.

The USPH Inspectors do have the option and the authority to prevent the ship from sailing from a US port if they determine that the failure is a serious immediate threat the the health of the passengers and crew. Or they can bar the ship from entering any more US ports for the same reason. But that never happens.

 

Most failures are based on technical failings and not actual immediate health threats.

 

If a ship leaves the dining room tables set up for more than 4 hours, the baker leaves the scoop in a bin of rice, the dough sheeting machine in the bakery has loose threads showing, the dishwash machine wash water is too hot, chicken is stored in the same walk-in refrigerator with beef or butter, the cooks failed to write down what time they removed the soup from the blast chiller, food is served 4 hours and 1 minute after it was prepared,  and the engineers tested the pool water from a depth of 2 feet instead of 4 feet, the ship can fail an inspection. Will anyone's health suffer from any of these things? Most likely not.

 

And if they applied the same rules to any restaurant in America, every one of them would be shut down.

I think you overcooked this a bit...pun intended.

 

As with many public safety inspections I did, some violations, probably at least one third, can be corrected immediately, on the spot, and monitored for future, continued compliance. Some violations can take longer to fix, probably at least one third, and require follow up inspection on an basis that be immediate  or something less...like in a week or a month.

 

Lastly,  a small percentage,  certainly less than 10%, are critical, and could possibly lead to a shutdown until fixed, and other remedial activities to prevent any further recurrence. 

 

Inspectors take these things very seriously, and know the effect of their actions. 

 

What we have been talking about here is the score an inspection might generate, which takes all of the above into consideration. So, a number of immediately corrected issues might create a lower score, but if all those things are corrected immediately, they don't prevent a ship from sailing, even though the score is low. So reading everything in the inspection report, including what was fixed immediately, what remedial activity was required, and what was recommended, is important. 

[zqvol]

7 hours ago, cuse165 said:

My question is based on a article and got me thinking. The article is this: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/carnival-fantasy-cruise-ship-fail-inspection.

I know what the company dose to fix the issues. But what happens to the ship right at that point? Are they inspected with guests on it and before they start a cruise? If so are they are you allowed to continue the cruise. Do they take the ship out of service? I want to know more what happens to the ship maybe people and not so much the company.

 

Thank you

 

Have you ever read an inspection report? A ship can lose points for some really crazy things. There is dust on a shelf is one of my favorite examples. The pH in the pool or hot tub is off by a tiny fraction. I read one where a fly came in while someone opened a door to walk out and they lost points for that. A ship can have sparkling kitchens and still fail an inspection. Personally I ignore them.

 

If a ship fails an inspection, nothing happens. They often fix many of the faults while the inspectors or on board and they have to provide a written follow up report within a certain time frame.

[Donald]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

So I think you are saying the things you list require remedial action, not the shut down of the ship's kitchen.  So I'm not seeing how the same rules would shut down an American restaurant.   Just not following.   

OK, let's look at the things that do affect just the kitchen and dining room.

USPH inspectors board the ship with a total potential score for the entire ship of 100 points.

86 points is a failure - and several management people lose their jobs.

 

Every potable water source on a foreign flag cruise ship must have an approved working backflow prevention valve. If inspectors find one that is not approved or not working properly, the ship loses 3 points. American restaurants in most states do not even know what a backflow valve is.

Every ice machine on a foreign flag cruise ship must be constructed with non-slotted screws. If they do not, it's a 2 point deduction. American restaurants do not have anything like that.

Foreign flag ships are required to freeze all protein items (red meats, poultry, fish, shellfish) for a minimum  7 days at a minimum 20 degrees celsius, before cooking and serving them to guests. Fresh fish is forbidden in nearly every case. Violating this rule costs us 5 points.

If we have a BBQ on a foreign flag cruise ship, all food preparations areas and dining areas must be covered to prevent any contamination falling from insects or birds. There must be a handwashing facility within 24 feet of all food preparation areas, and there cannot be a door located between the food preparation areas and the handwashing facility. 3 point deduction if this is not followed. This is not done in America.

Any food prepared on my ship cannot be served after 4 hours. It must be either consumed or discarded. No leftovers or recycling. Violation of this rule costs us 5 points.

Every area of the galley must have a bucket of cleaning solution, with either chlorine bleach or iodine solution inside and a micro-fiber cleaning rag that MUST be immersed in the solution at all times. This solution must be dumped out and re-mixed approximately every 2 hours. Failure to maintain the correct concentration (50 ppm - 200 ppm)loses 2 points. American restaurants do not do any of this.

Foreign flag galleys cannot store or process dairy products or fish or red meats in the same locations. Failure costs us 3 points. American restaurants do this sort of thing all the time.

Foreign flag ships must label all prepared foods and potentially hazardous foods with labels that: identify the item, give the date / time of preparation, and the date /time of discard. Failure to do this is a 3 point deduction. American restaurants do not do anything like this.

Foreign flag ships must ensure that food preparation employees wear no jewelery during food preparation, cover any facial hair, have no skin ailments, have properly trimmed fingernails, do not eat or drink anything in the galley, and wear latex gloves when handling ready to eat foods. Violation is a 3 point deduction. Most American restaurants do not have these requirements.

My menus must have warnings on certain protein food items that serving undercooked foods are a health hazard. Failing to place these warnings can cost me 3 points. Putting the warning on every item will also cost me 3 points. Some American restaurants do this as well.

If a food preparer or server has any gastrointestinal problems, he/she must immediately report it to our medical staff and he/she must be isolated for at least 72 hours after the last symptom is present. This must be reported to USPH, logged officially on the ship's log, and any cabin mates must be interviewed to ensure that they are symptom-free. Follow-ups must be performed and logged as well. Failure to do any one of these things results in a 3 point deduction. American restaurants don't do anything like this.

Whole eggs are forbidden for most food preparation - especially in foods that are not well-cooked. 3 points are deducted for violation. American restaurants do not do this.

All dairy products must ALWAYS be stored below 41f / 5c. Violation costs us 3 points. American standards allow dairy products to be stored at higher temperatures.

Fresh shellfish can be served on a foreign flag ship if:

1. The food has been purchased from US certified vendors.

2. The vendors supply USPH-approved certificates for the shellfish.

3. The certificates are retained for a minimum of 6 months after the shellfish is consumed.

Violation costs us 3 points. American restaurants do not do any of this.

 

Any food or condiments served on a ship's table cannot be re-cycled. Bread, butter (individual serving packets only), sauces, cream, etc must be discarded after a single use. violation costs us 3 points. American restaurants typically recycle these things all the time.

 

All food service areas on a foreign flag ship must have posted time-control plans for any ready to eat foods. No foods are allowed to be served or eaten more than 4 hours after preparation. All these foods must be clearly marked with a sticker or other identifier that indicates when the food was prepared and when it must be discarded. Failure is a 3 point deduction.

American restaurants don't do this.

 

All food preparation areas of a ship's galley must have stainless steel walls and ceilings and tile floors that are easy to clean. There can be no gaps in the stainless that would allow a credit card to be inserted. There can be no missing grout or cracked tiles on the floor. Any violation costs us 3 points. Most American restaurants do not follow these standards.

 

Ships galleys and restaurant areas must have minimum light levels of 200 lux to allow proper cleaning. violation in any area costs us 2 points. American restaurants do not have these standards.

 

Ship's galley cutting boards cannot be wood. They must be some sort of artificial material that is easily cleanable. They cannot have any cuts, dents, or scrapes that would allow bacteria to survive cleaning. violation costs us 3 points. Most American restaurants do not have these standards.

 

When food is prepped on my ship for later consumption, a cooling log must list preparation time and temperature when finished, it must be cooled to a medium temperature with in two hours and logged, then cooled to a minimum temperature (below 41f / 5c) in the next 2 hours, and logged again. Failure to do this loses us 3 points. Failure to maintain the log for 60 days will lose us an additional 3 points. American restaurants do not do any of this.

 

I could list another 100 items, but I suspect you get the point.

 

 

[2BACRUISER]

Just to add to this in May this year a ship was held by the port authorities in Naples as it arrived with 60+ sick passengers. The Italian port authorities slapped an immediate ban on it moving. We due to board were held in coaches and then the terminal for 8hrs before the authorities allowed us to board after a deep clean was deemed satisfactory. We should have left port at 5pm but were held until 8pm by the port until they were happy with procedures in place to prevent further illness. So it not just in the US, our ship was flagged Valletta Malta. 

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Donald said:

I could list another 100 items, but I suspect you get the point.

In addition to all the points he has made in this excellent post, let me say that most USPH inspectors are former local/state health inspectors, and they will tell you that if local restaurants were held to the standards they inspect to, there wouldn't be a restaurant open.

 

And as noted above, the USPH VSP covers far more areas than simply food safety, and this means the ship can lose points for those areas as well.  These areas, that a land based restaurant don't even have are: 

 

pool water chemistry

potable water loading, production, handling and sanitation

kid's center sanitation

medical center records

ventilation

lighting

housekeeping in the hotel areas

laundry

 

Some areas that a land restaurant may have, but are not part of a health inspection:

 

hazardous material handling and storage

pest control

 

And the big difference that the previous poster touched on, but did not emphasize is that the construction of all food storage, preparation, and serving areas of the ship, along with all the areas mentioned above, must meet the VSP requirements.  What restaurant in the US must have the health inspector approve the plans for a new restaurant, before it is built?  He also touched on the "slotted screw" requirement, which means that all food preparation equipment used on the ship must meet USPH requirements (how many health departments require special construction of a food processor?), and this increases the cost to buy this equipment to cover the cost of initial inspection at the plant, and the special parts required.

[cuse165]

Thanks I find anything cruise stuff very interesting.

[ldubs]

17 hours ago, Donald said:

OK, let's look at the things that do affect just the kitchen and dining room.

USPH inspectors board the ship with a total potential score for the entire ship of 100 points.

86 points is a failure - and several management people lose their jobs.

 

I could list another 100 items, but I suspect you get the point.

 

 

 

 

In the interest of space I didn't include your entire post. 

 

I don't think we are far apart on this at all.   

 

I think your point is different standards are in effect for cruise ships and that they are frequently stricter minimum standards than those applied to land based restaurants.   I have no quarrel with that, and in fact would be surprised if not the case.   I know our local reg’s applicable to restaurants include many of the items you cite (employee sickness/reporting, shellfish tagging, etc), but I would not argue that cruise ship regulations are not stricter.   I would also guess the standards are going to be somewhat more uniform because local jurisdictions have the authority to modify applicable health and safety reg's to some degree.   

 

I would also think that compliance on cruise ships is going to be much higher than land-based restaurants as a whole.  Compliance inspections aside, I would put my money on the professionalism of cruise ship kitchen management.   That same level of professionalism isn’t going to be found across the board in land-based restaurants.  

 

So, my confusion about your earlier comment was that an American restaurant would be shut down for what would be considered a minor violation on a cruise ship.  Let’s say I identified something in my County’s food handling regs that was not part of your minimum standards.  I think it would be very unfair of me to state that all cruise ship kitchens would be shut down because they didn't follow that was not required of them, especially if the item were considered a minor violation.  That was my point.  

 

BTW, The Laws of Physics must not apply to cruise ship kitchens if they can freeze something at 20 degrees Celsius!  😀  (just joshing, I know it was a typo).  

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

In addition to all the points he has made in this excellent post, let me say that most USPH inspectors are former local/state health inspectors, and they will tell you that if local restaurants were held to the standards they inspect to, there wouldn't be a restaurant open.

 

  What restaurant in the US must have the health inspector approve the plans for a new restaurant, before it is built?  

 

IDK about the first paragraph.  If a restaurant were held to the same standards, then the good ones would meet those standards and the bad ones wouldn't.  Clearly it is a different set of standards.   

 

Our local reg's covering restaurants do cover kitchen physical requirements and there must be prior approval along with inspections during construction and final sign off.   I'm not sure if a county health inspector is involved in the initial plan review.   Again, I think the point being made, taking the examples at face value, is that the minimum standards are much higher on a cruise ship.  I alluded to it in my earlier post that I also think there is a morale factor at work so that kitchen management on cruise ships is going to exceed the minimum standards.   

 

My two cents.  

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

IDK about the first paragraph.  If a restaurant were held to the same standards, then the good ones would meet those standards and the bad ones wouldn't.  Clearly it is a different set of standards.   

 

Our local reg's covering restaurants do cover kitchen physical requirements and there must be prior approval along with inspections during construction and final sign off.   I'm not sure if a county health inspector is involved in the initial plan review.   Again, I think the point being made, taking the examples at face value, is that the minimum standards are much higher on a cruise ship.  I alluded to it in my earlier post that I also think there is a morale factor at work so that kitchen management on cruise ships is going to exceed the minimum standards.   

 

My two cents.  

You are correct, but if a USPH inspector suddenly inspected a land restaurant, it would fail.  Similarly, the CDC did a study of several thousand land based public pools, and found that 85% of them would be in violation of USPH standards, and 80% of "swim diaper" facilities would be shut down immediately.  I remember when I took the USPH training, there were guys from a small sailing cruise boat, and we started talking about "blast chillers", and they had no idea what we were talking about.  Due to the smaller size of their meal preps, they have different methods of cooling food quickly, while large cruise ships use "blast chillers" which are cabinets that blow -20*C air over entire racks of food.  The requirement is that cooked food be chilled from 140*F to 60*F within 2 hours, and to 40*F within 4 hours.  And, there must be a log recording food temperature within the cabinet every hour.  If small ships use methods like wide, shallow pans, they must still log the food temperature every hour, and the timeline is the same.  I don't know of any restaurants that have to record this information.

[ldubs]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

You are correct, but if a USPH inspector suddenly inspected a land restaurant, it would fail.  Similarly, the CDC did a study of several thousand land based public pools, and found that 85% of them would be in violation of USPH standards, and 80% of "swim diaper" facilities would be shut down immediately.  I remember when I took the USPH training, there were guys from a small sailing cruise boat, and we started talking about "blast chillers", and they had no idea what we were talking about.  Due to the smaller size of their meal preps, they have different methods of cooling food quickly, while large cruise ships use "blast chillers" which are cabinets that blow -20*C air over entire racks of food.  The requirement is that cooked food be chilled from 140*F to 60*F within 2 hours, and to 40*F within 4 hours.  And, there must be a log recording food temperature within the cabinet every hour.  If small ships use methods like wide, shallow pans, they must still log the food temperature every hour, and the timeline is the same.  I don't know of any restaurants that have to record this information.

 

My background was in the property loss side of things as opposed to health and safety.   Still I was exposed enough to the life safety side to have a pretty good feel.  Based on what I've seen from a loss control perspective in lots of land based restaurants compared to what little of the food lines I've seen on cruise ships, I think cruise ships do a terrific job.   Importantly, I think the cruise ship food workers grow up in a completely different environment, and it shows.   

 

The food handling code here does require a specific timeline for certain types of food from cooked at and maintained at 135 deg's to chilled.  I don't know about record keeping.  

 

As an aside, during my high school days i worked on a loading dock in a chicken processing plant.  Pallets of freshly boxed chickens were moved by forklift into a blast freezer.  The forklift drivers wore insulated heated suits that plugged into  the forklift.  I went in there a few times.  It was COLD!  We would pack the boxes (28 chickens/box) into refrigerated box cars.  They were so frozen you could almost bounce them off the concrete dock.  

 

 

[Donald]

A colleague and I recently attended a one-week USPH refresher course in Miami at a very nice and well-respected hotel. During the course, the VSP inspectors convinced the hotel's kitchen employees to "disappear" for one hour. As soon as they left, we accompanied the inspectors into the hotel kitchen, where we conducted a mock USPH inspection of the entire food operation.

 

The score? 0.0

There were so many violations that the score should have been less than zero - but that is not possible.

They made Carnival Fantasy's failing score of 77 look pretty good.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Donald

[AmazedByCruising]

11 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

You are correct, but if a USPH inspector suddenly inspected a land restaurant, it would fail.  Similarly, the CDC did a study of several thousand land based public pools, and found that 85% of them would be in violation of USPH standards, and 80% of "swim diaper" facilities would be shut down immediately. 

 

What is the reason ships are held to such a much higher standard? Nobody ever died because a restaurant had slotted screws or a cracked tile. Who invented that a ship's galley should be regarded as if it was an operating theater? Obviously you wouldn't want Ebola introduced to the US, but the rules seem to be about salmonella. 

 

[Donald]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

IDK about the first paragraph.  If a restaurant were held to the same standards, then the good ones would meet those standards and the bad ones wouldn't.  Clearly it is a different set of standards.   

 

Our local reg's covering restaurants do cover kitchen physical requirements and there must be prior approval along with inspections during construction and final sign off.   I'm not sure if a county health inspector is involved in the initial plan review.   Again, I think the point being made, taking the examples at face value, is that the minimum standards are much higher on a cruise ship.  I alluded to it in my earlier post that I also think there is a morale factor at work so that kitchen management on cruise ships is going to exceed the minimum standards.   

 

My two cents.  

In another life I was General Manager of the most expensive restaurant in America. In fact we were the first restaurant in America to receive 3 Michelin Stars. We were always booked 3 years in advance - only because that was as far in advance that we would accept reservations. My clientele was mostly Hollywood stars and millionaires.

That restaurant - as good as it was - would not have come even close to passing a basic USPH inspection.

 

A few years later I helped a friend open a very upscale restaurant in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

A few days before we opened, a local health inspector stopped by for a surprise inspection. He told me he was waiting for his partner to arrive. I was in a rush, so I told him that his partner had already visited and left (not true). He thanked me, signed his inspection report (without inspecting anything), handed it to me, and said, "You passed. See you next year."

[Donald]

7 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

What is the reason ships are held to such a much higher standard? Nobody ever died because a restaurant had slotted screws or a cracked tile. Who invented that a ship's galley should be regarded as if it was an operating theater? Obviously you wouldn't want Ebola introduced to the US, but the rules seem to be about salmonella. 

 

You need to ask the US Public Health Service about that. You might also ask them why these rules and standards are applied to non-US Flagged ships - but are not applied to US Flag Ships, Airplanes, Trains, Hotels and Restaurants.

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, Donald said:

In another life I was General Manager of the most expensive restaurant in America. In fact we were the first restaurant in America to receive 3 Michelin Stars. We were always booked 3 years in advance - only because that was as far in advance that we would accept reservations. My clientele was mostly Hollywood stars and millionaires.

That restaurant - as good as it was - would not have come even close to passing a basic USPH inspection.

 

A few years later I helped a friend open a very upscale restaurant in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

A few days before we opened, a local health inspector stopped by for a surprise inspection. He told me he was waiting for his partner to arrive. I was in a rush, so I told him that his partner had already visited and left (not true). He thanked me, signed his inspection report (without inspecting anything), handed it to me, and said, "You passed. See you next year."

 

I agree the standards are more rigorous.  So now it sounds like one of the best run restaurants in America would be shut down if held to the same standards.  That would surprise me if true.  

 

BTW, that inspector's dishonesty is unacceptable.  

 

[BruceMuzz]

Actually, ALL the best run restaurants in America would be shut down if held to the same standards.

USPH rules require a cheese platter to be served at 40 degrees f or below. No great land-based restaurant would ever agree to that.

USPH will not allow a table to be set more than 4 hours before use. Most great land-based restaurants need more time than that.

USPH will not allow a water pitcher without a cover. Most land-based restaurants don't have them.

USPH will not allow American-made ice machines as they have slotted screws in their construction.

USPH does not allow unfiltered air vents over food preparation and storage areas. Most American restaurants have them.

USPH mandates no eating or drinking in food preparation areas. American restaurant workers do it all the time.

USPH mandates minimum clearances above and below equipment to allow easy cleaning. American health departments do not.

USPH mandates minimum lighting levels in front of, above, below, and behind equipment for easier cleaning. American health departments do not.

USPH requires a ship to report any and all food-related illnesses (crew and pax) to a federal database. Special reports are required if / when illnesses reach 2% and 3% of total crew and pax. American restaurants do not do this.

USPH does not allow use of food from dented cans. American restaurants have no such requirements.

USPH requires a posted time control plan for all non-refrigerated foods - and special stickers or other visible signals attached to each serving to identify it. American restaurants do not have time control plans.

USPH requires a tile or stainless floor under any refrigerator that contains any food or beverage items. This flooring must extend a minimum 16 inches from the front of the machine. American restaurants have no such requirements.

USPH requires that no food container may be on the floor of any galley or any walk-in refrigerator. All food must be stored a minmum 6 inches above any floor. American restaurants have no such requirements

USPH requires that all food in any refrigerator with a temperature above 41degrees f must be discarded immediately. American restaurants do not have this requirement.

USPH requires that any whole eggs received above 41 degrees f must be discarded. American restaurants do not have this requirement.

USPH mandates no nail polish, no artificial fingernails, no jewelery on arms and hands of any food prep employee. American food workers have these all the time.

USPH requires hair restraints on heads, beards, goatees, mustaches of food prep employees. American restaurants have a few requirements for head coverings.

USPH requires that food employees cannot use toilets used by customers. A few American restaurants have this requirement.

USPH requires that any mushrooms used as food must be inspected and certified by an Approved mushroom identification expert. American restaurants do not have this requirement.

 

[AmazedByCruising]

2 minutes ago, Donald said:

You need to ask the US Public Health Service about that. You might also ask them why these rules and standards are applied to non-US Flagged ships - but are not applied to US Flag Ships, Airplanes, Trains, Hotels and Restaurants.

 

You know that when I would ask, the answer would be "Thank you so much for asking. Our mission statement says we care about people. That's why. Cheers, the intern. BTW you're Dutch. Why do you even care?" 

 

It's undoubtedly something like a politician who knew someone that got sick on a ship after drinking all martinis that where on the menu and blamed his illness on the egg Benedict. But it somehow got through all checks and balances and now the ships are inspected as if ship food is probably poisonous unless proven otherwise. Isn't that a bit ridiculous? Shouldn't there have been at least one passenger who died because the ship gave them a raw chicken to eat before making rules about the right kind of screws?

 

To me it sounds like public servants, knowing nothing, sitting at their desk, their document is too empty and they need at least something to show how much they are needed. So they google a bit and start typing. From personal experience, they put everything to a halt.

 

[Donald]

Somebody's tax dollars at work (not mine).

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

What is the reason ships are held to such a much higher standard? Nobody ever died because a restaurant had slotted screws or a cracked tile. Who invented that a ship's galley should be regarded as if it was an operating theater? Obviously you wouldn't want Ebola introduced to the US, but the rules seem to be about salmonella. 

 

The reason is that the CDC and USPH can do it.  If the CDC had the jurisdiction over local and state health codes, they would institute the same standards as they do for cruise ships.  Why?  Because the CDC is one of the pre-eminent, if not the pre-eminent, authority on infectious disease transmission and mitigation.  What they believe to be best practices is probably just that, the best possible practices.  But state and local governments have the ability to ignore these, and institute regulations that meet their own risk/reward paradigms, so that ideas like cost to the restaurant industry is balanced against levels of food safety.  So, the USPH, whose mandate is to prevent the introduction of infectious diseases into the US by vessels (along with other missions), works with the experts from the CDC to determine how best to prevent this.  The VSP is a cooperative measure between the CDC, USPH, and the cruise industry itself, to determine what is achievable in meeting the best practices that the CDC wants.  It is all about jurisdiction.  As I said, a US flag cruise ship, that does not make foreign voyages (like Blount or American Cruises, or NCL's POA) are not inspected by USPH (since they can not possibly introduce disease into the US), but are inspected by FDA instead.  Unfortunately, there is a bit of turf war and jealousy between USPH and FDA, and they tend to interpret regulations (and have different regulations to some extent) differently, so switching regimes can cause problems.

 

Every foreign flag ship entering the US gets a health inspection, not just cruise ships.  This used to be done by USPH, or FDA, but now is done by health subject experts from CBP at the time of customs/immigration clearance.  The VSP is a means of not having to do a health inspection of a cruise ship every week when it re-enters the US.  A health inspection for a cargo ship with 20-30 crew takes maybe an hour, can you imagine if USPH had to do a full inspection of a cruise ship every week, and a "normal" inspection of cargo ships includes interviews with a random number of crew to determine their health at the time, so this would extend to passenger health interviews before disembarking, with attendant delays.  The VSP is an agreement between the USPH and the cruise lines, that if the ships are built to USPH requirements, and operations are kept within USPH requirements, then the vessel does not need to be inspected each time it re-enters the US, but will get a twice yearly random inspection.

[klfrodo]

• Is it too early in the morning to have learn sooooo much reading through this thread? 🤣

I want to thank the contributors to this thread for sharing their expertise.

 

On the other hand,,,, some of the best food I've ever eaten was in a hole in the wall dump. 

[DarrenM]

If a ship fails a health inspection surely someone is going to lose a lot of money.

 

And surely folk will be gicen their money back and allowed to find a healthy cruise line?

 

And I would exepct the owners to be going to jail.