Moscow: question for those who have gone from St Petersburg

[dogs4fun]

napoxoguk ...

If you are seriously considering DIY to Moscow, I would somehow find the time to add the Diamond Fund. It is well worth the visit. Info here: https://kremlintour.com/travel-tips/how-to-visit-diamond-fund

Virtual tour here: http://www.gokhran.ru/assets/vtour/index.html

[Wayfairers]

Looks like a very long day and things have to go right, but looks doable with a 3 day stay.  I would also investigate what happens if you should miss the ship for whatever reason.  How do you get from Russia to your next stop

[AngelDisney]

14 hours ago, napoxoguk said:

Okay, I think the diy budget might be something like ₽20,000 (about $300) per person. This includes:

Train tickets: ₽9000 (5+4); Kremlin+armory: 1700 (1000+700)

Boat ride:600

Metro:200

Meals: 3000 (1500 per casual meal)

Contingencies (Uber ride if needed, etc): 2500. 

 

It's based on a number of assumptions, so real-life mileage will vary - please let me know if you identify some glaring omissions or errors.

 

Assumptions:

Done on day 2 of three.

Good weather (lots of outside/walking time)

Earliest Sapsan to Moscow, overnight double decker from Moscow (no hotel stays)

Train tickets purchased at least 30 days in advance, economy for Sapsan and economy plus for the double decker (includes a bottle of water and a piece of gingerbread).

All group members are adults

Done on a day when the Kremlin, Red Sq, and other Moscow attractions are actually open.

Boat ride via watertrams-radisson.ru (the cheapest option with English audio guide)

 

 

Sample itinerary:

leave SPB on Sapsan 743a (5:30am), sleep on the train.

Arrive Moscow 9am

DIY Metro tour until 11am

Kremlin excursion (cathedral Sq, DIY) 11:30

Armory excursion (audioguide) 12:30 

Quick lunch (at GUM stolovaya or fast food chains at Manezhnaya sq) : 2 to 3pm.

Walk to Zaryadye boat pier via Alexander's garden, Red Sq, Zaryadye. Boats leave every 30 minutes. Route: Zaryadye- Gorky Park - luzhniki- Ukraina - turnaround - sparrow hills - Gorky Park. Time on board: 2 hrs. 

Gorky Park/muzeon (5:30 to 7:30). 

Head back (metro) towards red sq for evening walk/dinner (tverskaya-kamergersky-b.dmitrovka-metropol-nikolskaya area)

Need to be back at the train station by 10:30 to catch the 006aa train departing at 10:50. 

Back to SPB at 6:47 am.

 

Doable?

Wouldn’t you be all wiped out when you are back to SPB? Will you be able to fully enjoy touring SPB the next day? I am not sure how much rest/sleep you can get on the train back. I know I would be fine but my adult daughter would definitely not enjoy touring after a red-eye ride on the train. Everyone is different. This is just a concern for me. Hope you have a sea day following your stop at SPB to get reenergized. 

[napoxoguk]

10 hours ago, AngelDisney said:

Wouldn’t you be all wiped out when you are back to SPB?

Most likely 🙂

I'm not saying the itinerary is perfect, by any means - but it's a little more in depth than what I saw on various tour sites.

 

I feel like if I do end up on a day trip to a city like Moscow (an arrangement that is less than ideal by definition), I might as well suck it up. If I almost necessarily have to skip all the museums except the Kremlin, I might want to see the areas where the locals congregate (either Gorky Park or VDNKH) for some people watching. 

 

 

As to the trains - you could get some solid seven hours of sleep on an overnighter. The benefit of those newer double deckers is that there are three bathrooms per car, which makes morning toothbrushing routines less of a challenge.

 

Anyways, just thinking out loud - a friend (early forties, with 2 teenage kids) wants to do a Moscow run next summer, and I'm trying to come up with something doable and reasonably affordable. 

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

[Coral]

1 hour ago, napoxoguk said:

 

Anyways, just thinking out loud - a friend (early forties, with 2 teenage kids) wants to do a Moscow run next summer, and I'm trying to come up with something doable and reasonably affordable. 

 

I would save Moscow for a trip when you can spend multiple days there. It is amazing. Maybe go with your friend.

 

I used to like to watch the dogs riding the Moscow Metro. They would take the train to Red Square - hang out with their friends and then take the train back where ever. I am sad that they stopped this practice (metro stopped allowing dogs on it). They were pretty smart dogs! BTW - the Metro stations in Moscow are worth exploring also. I liked the one with the dog statues.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Coral

[AngelDisney]

4 hours ago, Coral said:

I would save Moscow for a trip when you can spend multiple days there. It is amazing. Maybe go with your friend.

 

I used to like to watch the dogs riding the Moscow Metro. They would take the train to Red Square - hang out with their friends and then take the train back where ever. I am sad that they stopped this practice (metro stopped allowing dogs on it). They were pretty smart dogs! BTW - the Metro stations in Moscow are worth exploring also. I liked the one with the dog statues.

It would be cool to see dogs riding metro on their own! Too bad it’s not allowed anymore. 

[dogs4fun]

23 hours ago, napoxoguk said:

 

Anyways, just thinking out loud - a friend (early forties, with 2 teenage kids) wants to do a Moscow run next summer, and I'm trying to come up with something doable and reasonably affordable. 

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

Just a thought ...

Since you are considering applying for a Russian visa, why not simply fly into Saint Petersburg, spend a few days and then take the Sapsan to Moscow and enjoy another several days. Russia is very inexpensive at the moment - hotels, food, etc.  A cruise will allow a visit to several Baltic cities but one only gets a taste - not enough time to really immerse oneself in the history of the places visited. 

[Davva30]

Hi everybody. First ever Cruise Critic post!

We're in St Petersburgh next summer for 3 days, so the Moscow day trip looks possible and we really fancy it. However as usual Royal Caribbean give you very little information about their excursions, even after you've booked! I'm interested in finding more out about the 4 hour train trip, which sounds ok if the train is comfortable and the 4 of us get to sit together! Can anyone advise if the train is nice, and is the usual free-for-all for seats that happens on coach tours, or do we get reserved seats so the 4 of us can sit together without fighting with the sharp-elbowed brigade who literally sprint and push to get the best seats on the coach!

It'll be a long 4 hours both ways if the train isn't nice and we don't get to sit together! Many thanks

[dogs4fun]

21 minutes ago, Davva30 said:

Hi everybody. First ever Cruise Critic post!

We're in St Petersburgh next summer for 3 days, so the Moscow day trip looks possible and we really fancy it. However as usual Royal Caribbean give you very little information about their excursions, even after you've booked! I'm interested in finding more out about the 4 hour train trip, which sounds ok if the train is comfortable and the 4 of us get to sit together! Can anyone advise if the train is nice, and is the usual free-for-all for seats that happens on coach tours, or do we get reserved seats so the 4 of us can sit together without fighting with the sharp-elbowed brigade who literally sprint and push to get the best seats on the coach!

It'll be a long 4 hours both ways if the train isn't nice and we don't get to sit together! Many thanks

I don't have a clue whether or not RCL will group your seats together if you book your excursion through them - this would be something to ask RCL.

You choose your seat on the Sapsan - there are several categories ranging from Premium Class (most expensive) to Economy Class (least expensive). Just like the airlines, you get what you pay for. We find the economy seating on the Sapsan much more comfortable than economy airline seats - no food is included with economy seating (you can purchase snacks if you want).  You can read about the train here (photos included) and you can judge for yourself:

https://www.russiantrains.com/en/train/sapsan-high-speed-train

[napoxoguk]

If given a choice (and a reasonable price offer), I would recommend taking the restaurant car  - especially on the way to Moscow. The ticket price includes about a ₽2.3k food allowance, with an airplane-like boxed re-heated main course running at about 4 to 6 hundred roubles. I'm never able to use the whole allowance over the course of the 4-hr ride, so I just get water/chocolates/snacks that can last you until you can have some proper lunch in the city.

If purchased about a month in advance, these restaurant car tickets run at about ₽7k ($120-150), one way.

[Sirius 10]

On 9/8/2019 at 8:51 PM, dogs4fun said:

I don't have a clue whether or not RCL will group your seats together if you book your excursion through them - this would be something to ask RCL.

You choose your seat on the Sapsan - there are several categories ranging from Premium Class (most expensive) to Economy Class (least expensive). Just like the airlines, you get what you pay for. We find the economy seating on the Sapsan much more comfortable than economy airline seats - no food is included with economy seating (you can purchase snacks if you want).  You can read about the train here (photos included) and you can judge for yourself:

https://www.russiantrains.com/en/train/sapsan-high-speed-train

 

Best but most expensive seats on the Sapsan are in the compartment at the very front, just behind the driver !  Seats four / Six people. With excellent waitress service much less hassle than the plane and traffic from the airports.

 

[Wayfairers]

On 9/8/2019 at 2:51 PM, dogs4fun said:

I don't have a clue whether or not RCL will group your seats together if you book your excursion through them - this would be something to ask RCL.

You choose your seat on the Sapsan - there are several categories ranging from Premium Class (most expensive) to Economy Class (least expensive). Just like the airlines, you get what you pay for. We find the economy seating on the Sapsan much more comfortable than economy airline seats - no food is included with economy seating (you can purchase snacks if you want).  You can read about the train here (photos included) and you can judge for yourself:

https://www.russiantrains.com/en/train/sapsan-high-speed-train

 

On 9/9/2019 at 5:35 PM, napoxoguk said:

If given a choice (and a reasonable price offer), I would recommend taking the restaurant car  - especially on the way to Moscow. The ticket price includes about a ₽2.3k food allowance, with an airplane-like boxed re-heated main course running at about 4 to 6 hundred roubles. I'm never able to use the whole allowance over the course of the 4-hr ride, so I just get water/chocolates/snacks that can last you until you can have some proper lunch in the city.

If purchased about a month in advance, these restaurant car tickets run at about ₽7k ($120-150), one way.

 

On 12/29/2019 at 8:43 AM, Sirius 10 said:

 

Best but most expensive seats on the Sapsan are in the compartment at the very front, just behind the driver !  Seats four / Six people. With excellent waitress service much less hassle than the plane and traffic from the airports.

 

Thanks for all the great tips!   I had somehow missed these posts earlier.  Now that everything changed and we aren’t doing the Baltic Sea Cruise later this year, we are considering doing it by land on our own one day and this information is very valuable. I’ll add it to my notes so I can find it whenever we end up in Russia. 

[dogs4fun]

2 minutes ago, Nok977 said:

I have once seen pics from a night train running between Moscow and St. Pete. An ex-colleague of mine spent about a week in Russia and took this night train from St. Petersburg to Moscow. If I remember correctly it is called Krasnaya Strela.  God, they said it was a fantastic experience! The train has a kind of retro look from the outside but is very clean and modern inside. The compartment was extremely convenient and the ticket price included a prope hot meal! I doubt it is possible to combine it with a Baltic cruise but if I ever plan another trip to Russia this train is already on my wish list 🙂 

Right - it's a sleeper train (red arrow). It departs St. Pete at about midnight and arrives Moscow at about 8 am.

https://www.russiantrain.com/trains/red-arrow

[dogs4fun]

5 minutes ago, Nok977 said:

Exactly, Red Arrow! Looks terrific! This train is a masterpiece!

It is my understanding that the Russian elite used the Red Arrow during Soviet times. If you take the trip, hope you will report back.

[flowslow]

Wow, looks like an awesome experience! Hopefully I can try this when I visit Russia again. Maybe a proper trip to Russia instead of a Baltic cruise again. 

[dogs4fun]

41 minutes ago, Nok977 said:

maybe you have idea of WHY it is called Red arrow? Does it have to do with their communist history? 

Yours is an interesting question to which I have no answer (truly, I am ignorant on most things Russian). Although I have never considered the train's name, your observation makes a great deal of sense in that the Red Arrow's service commenced in 1931 when communism was in full swing. I do know that the color red was appropriated as a symbol of communism (red symbolized the blood of the Russian workers, the Red Army & the color of the Soviet flag). So, like you, I would surmise that the name "Red Arrow" has something to do with communism.

Personally, I have never had a ride on the Red Arrow (although I have seen the train) - just the Sapsan for a cheapskate like me. Maybe one of these days I'll ride the Red Arrow - sure looks luxurious!

I'm still learning & consider myself a neophyte on Russian history & culture - big country, lots of history & much to absorb!

Edited July 16, 2020 by dogs4fun

[Fran2020]

On 7/6/2020 at 9:13 PM, dogs4fun said:

Right - it's a sleeper train (red arrow). It departs St. Pete at about midnight and arrives Moscow at about 8 am.

https://www.russiantrain.com/trains/red-arrow

Just checked the prices - if the quality is that high, it does not seem to be too expensive, first class is about 100 euros looks pretty much ok. Even the luxury version which is about EUR250 is still affordable, given that it is quite comparable with a nice hotel room. Need to do it one day! 🙂