Why do you hate HAL so much?

[ReneeFLL]

 

On 8/31/2019 at 12:46 PM, Lido deck main said:

Hi,

This one really gets me, I think if people want to bring their own water and Soda pop to save money, bring the darn cases on yourself.  Why should the staff do that.  If all 2,000 people did that, wow a lot of extra work for the staff.  These people are not servants.

Unfortunately a lot of people think they are and treat them as such. It's really sad.

[ReneeFLL]

On 9/1/2019 at 2:32 PM, taxmantoo said:

People watching at the buffet is a good start 

That's rather rude. 🙄

[HappyInVan]

17 hours ago, Billthekid said:

Love HAL ended his initial discussion with this sentence: " My question is, if it is so bad, why complain so much? Why not just spend your travel dollars elsewhere? Or, is it just fun to complain?"

 

The web site CRUISE CRITIC contains the word Critic which various dictionaries define as:

 

Definition of critic: 
: one who expresses a reasoned opinion on any matter especially involving a judgment of its value, truth, righteousness, beauty, or technique 

:a person who expresses an unfavorable opinion of something.
 :A person who forms and expresses judgments of the merits, faults, value, or truth of a matter.  

 

So the members of Cruise Critic who presented various dislikes about what is happening to HAL are well in line with the what a critic is and may or may not spend their dollars elsewhere and/or comment/complain as they please.
 

 +1

 

Passengers who share a critical review have multiple reasons. To vent their anger. To warn others. To gather support. To pressure the company for change. Each of these reasons is legitimate. 

 

Many of those currently complaining about the critics, have in the past done their complaining! So, it seems hypocritical for them to condemn others.

 

Not interested in those with critical reviews? Simple. Just ignore them. Is it difficult to do that?

 

 

[sail7seas]

Does anyone think this   thread is getting tangled in  the  weeds?      (I do.  🤷‍♀️   )

[cruisemom42]

7 hours ago, ronbe65 said:

It's hard to break through the cocoon of stereotypes.

If you have a marble bathroom and a butler - it's luxury. If not - it's not.

 

 

 

It would be so much simpler (and more factual) if you would just acknowledge in your posts that the ratings you cite represent solely your opinion. Otherwise it is confusing and a bit disingenuous.

[cruisemom42]

On 8/31/2019 at 12:46 PM, Lido deck main said:

Hi,

This one really gets me, I think if people want to bring their own water and Soda pop to save money, bring the darn cases on yourself.  Why should the staff do that.  If all 2,000 people did that, wow a lot of extra work for the staff.  These people are not servants.

 

Perhaps I am missing it, but HAL is silent about this, so how can anyone make a pronouncement that it is wrong? 

 

Some people bring 3 suitcases per person on board. Others might bring only a small suitcase and a case of water/soda. Isn't it up to HAL to make a determination regarding what's allowed and what isn't?  They are quite clear, for example, that any alcohol must be hand-carried aboard...

 

Mind you, I'm not saying folks should cart on 6 cases of water. But I also see no need to single out this one item. Perhaps HAL should limit "handled" luggage to 2 pieces per person, of whatever type, on shorter voyages and slightly more for longer ones.

[sail7seas]

Many of us  regularly  add IMO to  o ur posts.  Does that meet the 'requirement'?

 

 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Perhaps I am missing it, but HAL is silent about this, so how can anyone make a pronouncement that it is wrong? 

 

Some people bring 3 suitcases per person on board. Others might bring only a small suitcase and a case of water/soda. Isn't it up to HAL to make a determination regarding what's allowed and what isn't?  They are quite clear, for example, that any alcohol must be hand-carried aboard...

 

Mind you, I'm not saying folks should cart on 6 cases of water. But I also see no need to single out this one item. Perhaps HAL should limit "handled" luggage to 2 pieces per person, of whatever type, on shorter voyages and slightly more for longer ones.

 

My apologies -- it appears that I'm wrong. HAL has responded to queries from others that water and soda should be hand carried aboard.

 

If this is their policy, it should be much more clearly stated in the current KBYG and FAQs. 

[cruisemom42]

8 minutes ago, ronbe65 said:

Hi Cruisemom42,

Sure I will.

Please do me a favor. Can you provide a link to any cruise ships rating site we can trust?

Thanks!

 

I don't know who any of us can "trust", but at least some are transparent about the criteria used in their ratings. And there are commonly accepted categories of ships that even their own companies accept. I do not think you will find anyone at Holland America stating that they operate a "luxury" line. 

[mcrcruiser]

HAL is the best main line cruise line we have sailed for  ambiance ,comfort ,food ,presentation ,service & price per person 😀  .We have sailed 84 cruises & 5 different cruise lines 

[slidergirl]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I don't know who any of us can "trust", but at least some are transparent about the criteria used in their ratings. And there are commonly accepted categories of ships that even their own companies accept. I do not think you will find anyone at Holland America stating that they operate a "luxury" line. 

You can't trust any ratings.  Just like hotel rankings.  Even my current hotel pays employees $5 if they come in and "vote" in certain "Best of" ratings.  I refuse to do that.  Some rating services are "pay to play" - you pay, you get to know when the inspector is coming so you can have your best people ready to get that best score.  Or, you could be like a certain entrepreneur from New York who created his own ratings organization so all his properties could receive 5 "star"....  Trip Advisor ratings are skewed toward mass stays, not actual quality (you can tell that when the Four Seasons is not in the top 10 in a city/resort where there is one - it's usually a regular 3-star), and a vendor can have TA remove really bad reviews.   

 

The only thing you can go on is word of mouth or maybe the word of someone you trust in the industry...

[KirkNC]

Wow, this thread has really gone sideways since I last checked in.

 

Final comment, I hope the new HAL cheerleaders will have a better understanding in a few years when the very things they currently like about HAL today are gone.  Maybe then they will say “ I get it now”.

[Cruzaholic41]

6 hours ago, ronbe65 said:

HAL is not a luxury line that is obvious.

As you reacted to my post, I just wonder what sources you use to find out about cruise ship ratings.

I am not aware of any trustworthy one.

Happy cruising!

 

I would trust published sources such as Berlitz long before I’d trust an anonymous chat room bloke with no published and credible experience. 

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

Wow, this thread has really gone sideways since I last checked in.

 

Final comment, I hope the new HAL cheerleaders will have a better understanding in a few years when the very things they currently like about HAL today are gone.  Maybe then they will say “ I get it now”.

I won't say that.  I am a realist about changing demographics and the need for ships (and hotels, restaurants, etc,) to change with the times.  If I end up not liking a line anymore, I'm not going to b!tch and moan about it, but accept it and move on.   I loved my bellbottom jeans and ponchos and flowers in my hair, but I've moved on to straight jeans and Patagonia jackets and Buffs in my hair 😉

 

[HappyInVan]

4 hours ago, KirkNC said:

Final comment, I hope the new HAL cheerleaders will have a better understanding in a few years when the very things they currently like about HAL today are gone.  Maybe then they will say “ I get it now”.

 

Exactly, I was waiting for someone to say it. Here's the rebuke that I had prepared ...

 

"There is no right way to cruise. Each of us have a personal preference. You have a preference. So do the critics that you disagree with.

 

You might prefer bigger family-friendly e-oriented ships. Others prefer the golden age of quieter, gentler and humanist ships. Where you can sit down and chat with a complete stranger, and discover that you are friends.

 

Change is inevitable. But, not all change is desirable. 

 

The important thing for a customer is to find the right fit in the long run. Some of the critics believed that they had. Now, the loyalist are the biggest complainers.

 

As HAL 'evolves', will you be the loyal customer. Will you stick with HAL through the years? Or will you pursue the next special deal, or the next big thing?"

 

 

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, KirkNC said:

 

Final comment, I hope the new HAL cheerleaders will have a better understanding in a few years when the very things they currently like about HAL today are gone.  Maybe then they will say “ I get it now”.

 

I've cruised long enough to witness the demise of three favored cruise lines (Sitmar, Royal Viking, and now, effectively, Voyages to Antiquity). I've also rung the changes on several mass market lines having sailed with Princess since the 1980s, Celebrity since the 1990s, and HAL since the early 2000's (and parents and grandparents as long-term Mariners).

 

I still say one has to "roll with the changes" to an extent. To do anything else is an exercise in futility. If a cruise line or a vacation style/choice no longer works, one has to look elsewhere. 

 

Certainly you can pick a small change or two and try to rally the troops to keep that particular change from being implemented. But ultimately one has to realize that times change, tastes (in food and entertainment) change, technology changes and travel styles change. It's not ALL a matter of cost-cutting -- but certainly some of it is. 

 

The cruise model has changed but if one is willing to spend the equivalent amount of money that one spent on a cruise back in the 1980s, adjusted for today's real cost, one can approximate the same kind of experience. 

 

19 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

"There is no right way to cruise. Each of us have a personal preference. You have a preference. So do the critics that you disagree with.

 

...[ellipse]...

 

As HAL 'evolves', will you be the loyal customer. Will you stick with HAL through the years? Or will you pursue the next special deal, or the next big thing?"

 

 

 

Life's short and my travel list is long. Why would I or anyone stick with a line through the years if the line doesn't offer what works for me? 

 

Some people seem to enjoy throwing themselves on the pyre of loyalty to a line and then being disappointed when the line doesn't reward them for their selflessness. That just seems strange to me...

 

I can treasure HAL's history and the experiences I've had onboard and still let it go. (I've about perfected it after seeing several favorite lines fail, as mentioned above.) . I think some others might benefit from trying that, but of course they can't see it.

[KirkNC]

I read this on the “entertainment “ thread, thought it might give some a greater understanding of HAL and why us “old timers” feel the way we do.

 

Posted by Donald

 

I worked on HAL ships for many years. After the current President arrived, we had endless meetings on how HAL - now completely Carnivalized - could slowly and gently get rid of the older regular crowd that spent so little money onboard, and at the same time appeal to a newer, younger, free-spending demographic. This had to be accomplished gently, so that the older crowd did not realize they were no longer desirable, and so would desert the cruise line slowly. At the same time, HAL would slowly introduce new concepts that would appeal to a younger crowd, who would gradually replace the defecting oldsters. All of this had to be done with a careful eye to protecting profits and reducing costs during the entire process.

 

Very sneaky, but thinking about all those meetings and looking at the current state of HAL, they appear to be quite successful in their scheme. It will take a bit longer to complete, but their bottom line appears to be holding steady while slowly convincing the old crowd to look and book elsewhere.

This year, for the first time in decades, the average age of a HAL cruiser has dropped.

 

Personally, I do not see anything positive in these developments.

Edited August 23 by Donald

[HappyInVan]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Some people seem to enjoy throwing themselves on the pyre of loyalty to a line and then being disappointed when the line doesn't reward them for their selflessness. That just seems strange to me...

 

 

 

Guess you don't get it?

 

It's a matter of personality. Some are more likely to form bonds, for example they form a clique of friends on board. Some veteran cruisers have dear friends among the young crew members. Did you know that? This is the culture that the passengers created.

 

Then, there's the onboard culture that HAL has tried to project. The high-service benefits that promised respect for the passenger. To their horror, they discover that HAL is a Micky Arison company.

 

The annoying thing is that some of us are willing to pay to maintain a high standard. I'll get over it because I can afford to sail luxury brands. Many of the fixed income retirees cannot. So, they trying to squeeze onto the few remaining ships friendly to them, Bye Bye Prinsendam! Sob!

 

You know. Empathy is a good thing. It opens your eyes.

[Cruzaholic41]

5 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Some veteran cruisers have dear friends among the young crew members. Did you know that? This is the culture that the passengers created.

 

Oh, I know. People think some crew members are such good friends. Ha!  If only those people knew what those crew members say when they get off the ship. Crew, just like the cruise line, only want one thing. Your money. And in doing so, gullible people fall for the whole loyalty or friendship game. 

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Guess you don't get it?

 

You know. Empathy is a good thing. It opens your eyes.

 

I have plenty of empathy.

 

As I mentioned above, my parents are long-time HAL cruisers and 4-star Mariners; HAL was their favorite line. A few years ago HAL virtually eliminated smoking on board; my parents are smokers. My fond hope that they'd be able to continue cruising HAL until they could no longer cruise was dashed. But I daresay the majority of HAL cruisers are happy about the change -- so not all HAL changes are for the worse, eh?  And while I'm very sad for my parents, you won't find me whining about this done deal; I realize it's a change HAL had to make to remain competitive, just like a lot of the changes that YOU individually may not like.

 

It's good to learn to let go sometimes.

 

 

 

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

 

Oh, I know. People think some crew members are such good friends. Ha!  If only those people knew what those crew members say when they get off the ship. Crew, just like the cruise line, only want one thing. Your money. And in doing so, gullible people fall for the whole loyalty or friendship game. 

I get a kick out of those who say they prefer fixed dining because that allows them to establish a repport with the dining staff.  See how those staff react when you run into them on disembarkation day.

[Tennessee Titan]

This thread is getting very sick......

[twodjs]

On 9/4/2019 at 8:13 AM, Cruzaholic41 said:

According to who?  That’s drastically different from Cruise Critic’s polls and other sites I’m finding. 

Just take a deep breath and relax. ronbe65 seems to rank their ships on the width of the promenade deck, whether there are 300 lounge chairs on that deck and how the bubbles hit your legs in the spa. I know I'm generalizing, but everyone has their own ranking method. They list mein schiff ships as two of the top in the world. But I watched one of their very long videos - all their signs are in German. I don't speak German, so I would expect to rank my experience on those ships near the bottom, since I would be clueless for the entire cruise. Just move on...

[Cruzaholic41]

1 minute ago, twodjs said:

Just move on...

  

Nope. 

[idiebabe]

4 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

 

Oh, I know. People think some crew members are such good friends. Ha!  If only those people knew what those crew members say when they get off the ship. Crew, just like the cruise line, only want one thing. Your money. And in doing so, gullible people fall for the whole loyalty or friendship game. 

 

You know what crew members say when people get off the Ship! I can imagine what they say about some people!  😂 I don't consider crew members "such good friends" but have run into Waitstaff and Wine Attendants who we've met on other Ships as well as Officers and Specialty Restaurant Managers, etc.  They have gone out of their way to come over to us when they see us (before we've seen them) even though we are not in their Section of the Dining Room or when we have seen them up on Lido, etc.  There is no monetary gain for them to do that!  

 

@RocketMan275  We do build up a rapport with our Waitstaff and our Wine Attendant through Fixed Dining and have run into them on Debark day and they have not been any different than the day before toward us.   We actually have run into them on other Ships and they have gone out of their way to come over to us when they see us.   

 

You know what the saying is "We Love all our Customers!  Some when they are coming and others when they are Leaving"!  😉