Why do you hate HAL so much?

[ChinaShrek]

10 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

 

Now, why am I not surprised by this statement?  Just because you don’t care about a library or reading doesn’t mean those that do enjoy it should be chastised since they are losing that amenity.

 

 

 

But how many videos or movies have you watched this week?  I spend 20-40 hours a week on Netflix and YouTube!

[kazu]

2 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

Why I am not surprised that I would have a vastly different definition of cutback than you?    If it doesn't involve money, it is simply a change and here is my source:

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/cutback

 

a reduction, esp. one made to save money:

 

Ahh, but the elimination of the library does involve money.  People either have to buy a kindle or books to bring.

 

And eliminating the library and yum yum man does save the ship money.  I can explain it but I can’t make you comprehend it.

 

It’s a fact.  They were costs and they are being eliminated = cutbacks by your own definition.

[JRG]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

synonyms.....salami slicing?

 

Lets go with this definition just for ships and giggles.

Edited August 31, 2019 by JRG

[Aquahound]

Speaking of cutbacks, the cutback most do not complain of is the pricing.  

 

I'll complain all day long about HAL's entertainment line up but at the end of the day, when I can book a last minute 7 night cruise on Eurodam in a veranda for $599, it makes me forget about the terrible shows.  

[Ken the cruiser]

We have no issues with HAL. We've had many fun cruises with them since 2013, 11 to be exact, plus we have a 40 day one on the Maasdam coming up next month.

 

Now, I will say we always book a vista suite and have twice took advantage of a NS upsell and have always enjoyed our stays in both categories.  We enjoy their full promenade decks, although it can get a little tight on the Koningsdam when walking around the bow and stern with no directional walking arrow present. As far as food goes, we've never had any complaints until our last cruise on the Zaandam when it appeared they were using powered eggs rather than boxed to make scrambled eggs. Would that be considered a cutback?

 

Our only real issue with HAL, especially on their longer 15+ day cruises, is the lack of variety of fun things to do on sea days. Sure, you can go to one of the many vendor-sponsored presentations selling time shares and bamboo products and, of course, you won't want to miss the Peter Maxx seminars. Of course, there is trivia, bingo and the cooking seminar.

 

Simply put we're in our mid 60s and HAL has just become too "relaxing" for us. When we go on a cruise, which average between 3-5 a year, we like to laugh a lot, see Las Vegas style production shows and entertainers, and in short, be wowed!

 

Now, for the most part we were happy with HAL until we started comparing their vista suite fares against an Oceania balcony cabin, a Princess mini-suite and a Celebrity Sky Suite. That revelation back in 2016 opened our eyes to what we could book on other cruise lines and at the same time start having fun again laughing at the CD and their assistant-led events and going to Las Vegas style shows, especially on Princess and Celebrity. On Oceania, it's all about the food and itineraries.

 

But, we don't hate HAL and hope they continue to do well with their redesign efforts to target the 30-40 crowd. We're also hoping HAL's In-depth EXC program on the Maasdam is a big success as we really like going to professional lectures.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Ken the cruiser

[HappyInVan]

8 hours ago, LoveHAL said:

My question is, if it is so bad, why complain so much? Why not just spend your travel dollars elsewhere? Or, is it just fun to complain? 

 

I won't be surprised if someone starts a thread complaining about the complainers who insult those with negative feedback.

 

From a management POV, information is critical. 

 

Should management fail to understand the reason for declining sales, they could cut prices and start a death spiral. Declining quality and comfort causes a drop in sales. The company fills the ship by cutting prices. Resulting in a further drop in quality. Death spiral.

 

Why do the 'complainers' voice their concern on this forum? After all, they must have filled out the post-cruise surveys?

 

Those who feel that they did not receive value for money, are looking for moral support. At this point, the company needs goodwill ambassadors. Someone who can empathize, sooth hurt feeling, and ask the critics to try again please. 

 

This is damage control.

 

Someone who can do this actually adds value to the forum, and is an asset to the company.

[Jammu2]

Btw the Celebrity forums are bogged down with complaints about cutbacks, Edge-ification, prices, etc.

 

Everything is always changing. We have to be changing too, or you get left behind.

 

A relative bought a rediculously cheap plane ticket. Then went off the rails complaining about this that and the other. "No seats! We can't reserve seats'" yes you can, it just costs more. Yes its remarkable you can go to Vegas for $69 one way. But you pay extra for your bag!! So what? It's still cheap.

 

You have to compare apples to apples.

 

I do think HAL has changed some. I look at the total value package. Shop the itinerary. Buy the darn upgrades. Cough up some $ for drinks. The value is still there.

 

But if you are looking for a more upscale experience, Oceania has it starting at around 250 pp per night.

[iancal]

We vote with our feet and with our wallets.  We see little value in complaining or moaning and groaning about cutbacks.  Does not matter if it is cruise lines or anything else.  There is lots of choice in the marketplace so instead of complaining we simply switch products or vendors in order to find something closer to our current tastes and preferences.

 

All of the mass market cruise lines seem to have experienced cutbacks. People complain.  But they don't seem to complain when the fares stay constant, or near enough to, for years on end.

 

 My  guess is that if some HAL cruisers took the value of the fares they willingly paid 15 or 20 years ago, adjusted for inflation, they could easily pay for a cruise on a truly premium or luxury line.   It is the same on other cruise lines.    But they either do not want to pay the fare of they are quite happy being stuck in a rut enjoy complaining about their own choice of cruise line.  Those good old days are not coming back.  Time to get over it and move forward.

Edited August 31, 2019 by iancal

[DFD1]

I have cruised consistently since 1968. I'm paying virtually the same amount of money today, sometimes less, than I paid for a cruise then.....around $80 to $100 per day.

 

For HAL to provide the level of service  it provides today for virtually the same amount of money it charged more than 40 years ago is remarkable.

 

In my view, based on a lifetime of cruising, there is nothing to complain about. HAL provides a great "Bang for the Buck"...and it always has.

 

For those who find many things about HAL not to their liking, there are lots of choices.

Edited August 31, 2019 by DFD1

[kazu]

1 minute ago, DFD1 said:

I have cruised consistently since 1968. I'm paying virtually the same amount of money today, sometimes less, than I paid for a cruise then.....around $80 to $100 per day.

 

 

 

Wow, good for you!  I keep hearing about all these dirt cheap cruises but I’ve never found them.  Our per dime is much higher.  But we don’t do Caribbean often which I think is where most of the deals are.

 

 

[sevenseasnomad]

We have been cruising since 1975 with Sitmar, Carnival, Celebrity, NCCL, and RCCL.  We discovered HAL in 2008 and never looked back.  We enjoy this line for its gracious, efficient service and ships' ambiance.  Yes, we've noticed the cutbacks/reductions (whatever you want to call them), but feel that HAL still delivers a good product for our $$.  I now cruise with my son who is 32 and also prefers HAL.  In fact, he flat out loves it, probably more than me.  

 

When I feel that HAL no longer meets my expectations or value for the money, I won't complain on these boards.  I'll book with another line; however, I don't see that happening any time soon.  Is every cruise perfect?  No.  But I tend to look for the positives and forget the negatives, which IMO are few and far between at present.  I often wonder about Cruise Critic members who post only negative reviews/responses.  Why cruise with a line that offers nothing but dissatisfaction?  With so many choices, it makes no sense to me.  

[avian777]

14 hours ago, LoveHAL said:

... BUT, it seems that over the past few years, Cruise Critic has turned into a place where many people have become so negative about seemingly everything HAL management does. In my opinion, the enjoyment and benefit of this Forum has declined significantly. Sure, not everything is perfect, but there are a number of Cruise Critic members that seemingly NEVER have anything positive to say. You know who you/they are..... "Orlando is trying to ruin the company"; "HAL is nickel and diming us"; "They are taking away....."; How can I sneak on alcohol or will HAL carry on my cases of waters/soda? At the end of the cruise, why doesn't HAL pay me back in cash the on-board credit that they didn't buy, but that HAL as given to them?  , and so many other things. The irony is that they seem to continue to cruise with HAL (how else would they know what is going on now?). They continue to look for the cheapest fare (nothing wrong there), but still expect all the things they got in the "good old days".  

 

My question is, if it is so bad, why complain so much? Why not just spend your travel dollars elsewhere? Or, is it just fun to complain? 

😎👌👍  Spot on, LoveHAL.  I agree with EVERYTHING you said and thank you for sharing your very good insights.  🚢🛳️⛴️

[avian777]

4 hours ago, iancal said:

We vote with our feet and with our wallets.  We see little value in complaining or moaning and groaning about cutbacks.  Does not matter if it is cruise lines or anything else.  There is lots of choice in the marketplace so instead of complaining we simply switch products or vendors in order to find something closer to our current tastes and preferences.

 

All of the mass market cruise lines seem to have experienced cutbacks. People complain.  But they don't seem to complain when the fares stay constant, or near enough to, for years on end.

 

 My  guess is that if some HAL cruisers took the value of the fares they willingly paid 15 or 20 years ago, adjusted for inflation, they could easily pay for a cruise on a truly premium or luxury line.   It is the same on other cruise lines.    But they either do not want to pay the fare of they are quite happy being stuck in a rut enjoy complaining about their own choice of cruise line.  Those good old days are not coming back.  Time to get over it and move forward.

As usual, iancal, you nailed it!  👍😎👌 Thanks and best wishes for smooth sailing to you & yours ...

[avian777]

3 hours ago, sevenseasnomad said:

We have been cruising since 1975 with Sitmar, Carnival, Celebrity, NCCL, and RCCL.  We discovered HAL in 2008 and never looked back.  We enjoy this line for its gracious, efficient service and ships' ambiance.  Yes, we've noticed the cutbacks/reductions (whatever you want to call them), but feel that HAL still delivers a good product for our $$.  I now cruise with my son who is 32 and also prefers HAL.  In fact, he flat out loves it, probably more than me.  

 

When I feel that HAL no longer meets my expectations or value for the money, I won't complain on these boards.  I'll book with another line; however, I don't see that happening any time soon.  Is every cruise perfect?  No.  But I tend to look for the positives and forget the negatives, which IMO are few and far between at present.  I often wonder about Cruise Critic members who post only negative reviews/responses.  Why cruise with a line that offers nothing but dissatisfaction?  With so many choices, it makes no sense to me.  

👍👍👍  Agree 100%, sevenseasnomad!  Thanks for sharing your very positive insights.

[tv24]

IMHO the way to do it is to point out the things that you like about HAL, and they mention the things that can be improved.  For us, we love BB Kings and enjoy the quality of the informal food at the buffet at lunch time, such as the tacos and the Dive In sandwiches.  On the other hand we noted issues on the Noordam recently, the tacky design of the ship and the sketchy beverage service.  No, we don't hate HAL, and we will surely return, but we feel free to note issues in different forums, including CC, and hope someone notices and improves.  Otherwise we are just reasonable with our expectations.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

I’ve been cruising for only six years, but even I can see some changes which make Holland America less distinct.  For me, this mainly has to do with the ship design, and the evening ambience.  Both of these aspects were great for enjoying the feeling of being at sea.  I don’t want other sights and sounds dominating the environment, trying to grab my attention.

 

I still like HAL, and some of its ships are still my first choice when they are available for a region in which I’m planning a cruise.  However, more and more, Holland America is becoming less and less of an escape from the ordinary for me.

 

 

[Doubt It]

I view all cruise lines, mass, premium and luxury as all being aligned to reduce the product and increase profit; most certainly not focused on the customer.

 

It is not only the mass lines like HAL. As a former regular Oceania cruiser, I have eliminated them as a supplier. Their recent menu downgrade, poorer quality ingredients, the precooking of the "famed" lobster, the creeping in of par frozen breads, dry crumbling scones, the frozen tea sandwiches on cheap white bread and the obvious cut backs in staff - have significantly downgraded the Oceania experience. Their prices have increased.

 

Also it is the creeping Vegas style of the new ships on all lines - the obvious loss of the ship experience. Limited outdoor viewing areas, eliminating the forward viewing lounge (especially on Celebrity).

 

I am in the target age market for the mass lines and find the Edge etc trivial and dumbed down.  If I choose a ship, I want to be on a ship, not a Vegas hotel. 

 

The cruise lines can do what they want - and so can consumers.

 

Our family and friends are moving from cruising to land based tours with private tours. Completed in  June a outstanding tour of Austria, Switzerland, France and Germany and a QM2 TA back home. No cruise can come close to this experience. We ate in the best local restaurants, stayed in great hotels, never had to lift a finger other than pack our suitcase. The price was not higher than the same time frame on a cruise.

 

For consumers with open minds about travel options and consumers who refuse to be loyal to any service provider - cruise lines watch out. Many savy consumers are not accepting your increasingly cheapened and dumbed down cruise experiences.

 

I understand cruisers who have sailed for decades being sad to see the previous gracious experience slip away.

 

But I am a relative newcomer to cruising, and I am not impressed. Many in my coveted age group reject fake and manufactured experiences, just the experience rolling out of the docks as newbuilds.

 

Time will tell how the cruise line chase for the younger crowd works out.

 

 

 

 

[*Miss G*]

33 minutes ago, Doubt It said:

am in the target age market

 

34 minutes ago, Doubt It said:

Many in my coveted age group

 

Just wondering what your coveted age group/target age market is?

[Mosaic]

There are so many cutbacks it is not necessary to name them.   Although, someone might wish that as an exact new thread.  Here is part of my take.  The people here who complain about complainers are, complainers.

 

One reason people complain here, is well, there is reason to complain.  Another is that it is sad for many of us who care about Holland America Line to see the cutbacks of services and quality.  So yes, we do care.

 

It is also difficult for a cruise ship to satisfy all, when some couples are paying $100.00 per night while others are paying $1,000.00 per night.  Yes, there should be different expectations.  HAL needs to keep the prices higher on the lower cost staterooms.  They will not do this, however.

[awhcruiser]

On 8/31/2019 at 8:55 AM, LoveHAL said:

Well, the title that got your attention!

 

I started cruising when I was 17 years old, realizing how fortunate I was to have this wonderful experience.  In 2002 I discovered Holland America on a 7-day Alaska cruise.  Since then, HAL has been my exclusive cruise company (35-cruises, five star mariner). Why? A quality product for a reasonable price. I have always started every cruise with a positive attitude, and realized that not everything can be perfect. Regardless what we do in life, things can go wrong. Gosh darn, they don't want to give me TWO main courses for dinner. The prices on drinks have gone up. They no longer provide this or that. The ships are showing wear, or I hate the larger ships. 

 

Soon after my first HAL cruise I discovered Cruise Critic. It was a place to share information and, meet people prior to the cruise , and on occasion, save some money on private excursions. Roll Calls have been a wonderful resource for me. BUT, it seems that over the past few years, Cruise Critic has turned into a place where many people have become so negative about seemingly everything HAL management does. In my opinion, the enjoyment and benefit of this Forum has declined significantly. Sure, not everything is perfect, but there are a number of Cruise Critic members that seemingly NEVER have anything positive to say. You know who you/they are..... "Orlando is trying to ruin the company"; "HAL is nickel and diming us"; "They are taking away....."; How can I sneak on alcohol or will HAL carry on my cases of waters/soda? At the end of the cruise, why doesn't HAL pay me back in cash the on-board credit that they didn't buy, but that HAL as given to them?  , and so many other things. The irony is that they seem to continue to cruise with HAL (how else would they know what is going on now?). They continue to look for the cheapest fare (nothing wrong there), but still expect all the things they got in the "good old days".  

 

My question is, if it is so bad, why complain so much? Why not just spend your travel dollars elsewhere? Or, is it just fun to complain? 

Why complain about people who complain?

[cruisetheworld67]

After  more than a dozen  HAL  cruises,  I feel it is not so  much  "hating"  HAL as hating   the  non-stop  cutbacks and continual  nickel and diming that goes on.

 

Which is why now that we are retired and have the means; we  are looking at the luxury lines for future cruises:  Seabourn,  SilverSea,  and  Regent.  Want  more than HAL can offer and are willing to  pay  for  it.  If we are not satisfied with the luxury lines, we can always come back to HAL.

 

One area where we feel HAL has continued to fail is the food in the MDR. The meats are now  truly  inedible.  Service is slow.

Hopefully  the smaller ships will impress us.

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, Doubt It said:

I am in the target age market for the mass lines and find the Edge etc trivial and dumbed down.  If I choose a ship, I want to be on a ship, not a Vegas hotel. 

 

Just curious, what target age market are you in? We're now in our mid 60s and thought it was finally our turn after dealing with Frank Sinatra era music for so long. For you young ones, that means we graduated HS in the early 70s when Queen, Rod Stewart, Led Zeppelin and country rock were just coming on the scene. Our music era ended when Metallica and the like showed up. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Ken the cruiser

[awhcruiser]

On 8/31/2019 at 8:55 AM, LoveHAL said:

Why complain about complainers?

 

 

 

My question is, if it is so bad, why complain so much? Why not just spend your travel dollars elsewhere? Or, is it just fun to complain? 

 

[pete_coach]

20 hours ago, Tennessee Titan said:

I am 5*, and don't complain about HAL

I am 87 and don't complain about HAL

There is an exception to every rule but, the statement stands.....people do not like change (or cutback or reduction in service) and will complain.

Brain circuit that helps us adapt to change fades with age. https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2016-04-21/brain-circuit-that-helps-us-adapt-to-change-fades-with-age/7342736

[SetAnOpenCourse]

2 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Just curious, what target age market are you in? We're now in our mid 60s and thought it was finally our turn after dealing with Frank Sinatra era music for so long. For you young ones, that means we graduated HS in the early 70s when Queen, Rod Stewart, Led Zeppelin and country rock were just coming on the scene. Our music era ended when Metallica and the like showed up. 

Don’t overlook punk and new wave.  Those of us from this era, I’d guess, are more the so-called target market.  

 

And some of us very much appreciate Sinatra’s music!