Do you Like the direction..

[rucrazy]

Do you like the direction Orlando Ashford seems to be leading Holland America Line?

Please discuss.

Edited September 12, 2019 by rucrazy
Completed Post

[taxmantoo]

17 minutes ago, rucrazy said:

Do you like the direction Orlando Ashford seems to be leading Holland America Line?

 

[rucrazy]

I for one very much dislike all the promotions and pricing structures... It's almost like the marketing depart is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks...

[Hlitner]

We actually think that HAL has no direction.  it is like a ship without a rudder (or Azipod).

 

Hank

[DeeniEncinitas]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We actually think that HAL has no direction.  it is like a ship without a rudder (or Azipod).

 

Hank

Hank!!!!! PERFECT ANALOGY 👍

Denise😊

[Sir PMP]

He needs to be replaced, Hal was doing great under Lanterman..

[Krazy Kruizers]

We do not like the direction HAL is going.  Our last cruise everything was downhill!!

 

HAL certainly isn't trying to keep their loyal customers.

[Tennessee Titan]

Yet another "Why do you hate HAL" thread! Will it never end....

[Sir PMP]

21 minutes ago, Tennessee Titan said:

Yet another "Why do you hate HAL" thread! Will it never end....

No, it shouldn't..

[sail7seas]

3 hours ago, rucrazy said:

Do you like the direction Orlando Ashford seems to be leading Holland America Line?

Please discuss.

 

 

Please start us off by  telling us your opinion  on the subject.

 

tia

 

 

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

 

 

 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

To be truthful, I don't like the direction of most cruise lines. Why single out HAL?

 

-- I don't like larger ships.

-- I don't like cruise lines that create an obvious "class system" onboard.

-- I don't like the trend toward "unbundling" of costs.

 

None of these are unique to HAL.

 

Entertainment is very subjective so I'll leave it to the side for the moment (although I am not terribly fond of endlessly recycled production shows or canned music or shows that largely depend on passenger participation).

 

I do think some lines are trying new things in an effort to see what works. I may not like every single new idea, but I am often willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and withhold judgement until I experience them.

[sail7seas]

2 hours ago, DeeniEncinitas said:

Hank!!!!! PERFECT ANALOGY 👍

Denise😊

 

 ^^^   I agree  with  Hank and Denise.  🙂

 

 

Where are A.Kirk Lanterman and Stein  Kruse when we need them?

 

We Knew there was a leader at the Helm when they  were  leading the company.

 

 

 

 

[rucrazy]

35 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

 

 

Please start us off by  telling us your opinion  on the subject.

 

tia

 

 

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

 

Sails-

I have already made one comment post #3, to add an additional thought, I feel and this is just my own opinion ... Mr. Ashford is in over his head!

While Mr. Kruse as Chief Executive Officer appears to be turning a blind eye to HAL perhaps because he is focusing on  Princess and or Seabourn or it could be that this direction IS the direction that this brand has chosen to go.

All I do know is I am getting less value (both tangible and non-tangible) with each adventure we take.

That is my take.

 

Joseph

[MISTER 67]

My biggest gripe is the quantity and quality of entertainment aboard HAL ships. BB Kings and Lincoln Center are pretty good but the rest is a joke. 

[Tapi]

Can someone be more specific about what direction Mr. Ashford is taking HAL? What things or changes are happening due to his leadership? I’m wondering if this is the typical “this cruise line is going downhill” thread that appears on pretty much every single cruise line board on Cruise Critic, or if there’s some true substance to it.

 

We will be taking our second HAL cruise in a few months. We had a great cruise on the Westerdam in 2013 but considered that the HAL product failed to stand out. So we haven’t considered booking another HAL cruise since then. But it is because of the changes, new onboard offerings, latest class of ship, and overall new image, why we were attracted to finally book another HAL cruise, this time aboard the Niew Statendam. 

 

Could HAL be headed in a direction that’s different than what some loyal customers would like, but not necessarily downhill?

Edited September 12, 2019 by Tapi

[RocketMan275]

33 minutes ago, Tapi said:

Can someone be more specific about what direction Mr. Ashford is taking HAL? What things or changes are happening due to his leadership? I’m wondering if this is the typical “this cruise line is going downhill” thread that appears on pretty much every single cruise line board on Cruise Critic, or if there’s some true substance to it.

 

We will be taking our second HAL cruise in a few months. We had a great cruise on the Westerdam in 2013 but considered that the HAL product failed to stand out. So we haven’t considered booking another HAL cruise since then. But it is because of the changes, new onboard offerings, latest class of ship, and overall new image, why we were attracted to finally book another HAL cruise, this time aboard the Niew Statendam. 

 

Could HAL be headed in a direction that’s different than what some loyal customers would like, but not necessarily downhill?

JMHO, but many of the complaints I've seen are from 4* & 5* Mariners who don't think they're getting enough respect from Ashford.

[rucrazy]

22 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

JMHO, but many of the complaints I've seen are from 4* & 5* Mariners who don't think they're getting enough respect from Ashford.

For me that is only part of it. The reduction in staff to guest ratio is another

[HappyInVan]

I like this thread much better than the 'haters' thread which turned into a vicious attack on veteran HAL Mariners.

 

Let's have a constructive discussion. Has there been cuts rather than a shift in priority? Is Carnival/HAL under-performing in revenues and profits? What should Carnival do to increase value and/or offer alternatives?

 

Thanks for your considered thoughts. Here's my assessment ...

 

IMHO, the old timers loved the ships and the experience. And, naturally blame management for the cuts. This is correct, as management has control of the brand.

 

What is unacceptable is to blame the passengers for not spending enough. Management has the power to price the cruises. It's their fault if ships don't carry the 'right' passengers.

 

As I have explained, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd is doing much better than Carnival in terms of profitability, and stock market pricing. That's because they have gone up-market, and can charge better prices. They have enough differentiation from Carnival, that they are embarking on a massive expansion in mega-ships.

 

What's the problem at Carnival HQ? 

[HappyInVan]

Often, a strong-willed founder will have weak Lieutenants and Board of Director. That's a fatal flaw. Successful generals and admirals have capable and outspoken COS and XO. Field marshals answer to their political masters.

 

In management, there is a rule that you can't move on till you have a successor ready to take your place. As Micky passed on his management responsibilities, who's in charge?

 

Here's an insight into management responsibilities. Junior managers are tasked with cost control and meeting schedules. Middle managers worry about trade-offs. What hurts less; increases in price or cuts in quality?

 

The COO has to balance the organization as it goes about its business. Are the various departments/groups working together? Are the right people (marketing, technical, customer service etc) taking the lead on various issues. Are the right infrastructure and resources in place to achieve the goals?

 

The CEO has the strategic role, and there is a reason why he is paid the most. The cruise business is about the customer experience. The CEO has to prioritize a set of customer values. How to maintain and increase value in the long run? Who are the 'right' passengers? 

 

How do you change the game when there is insufficient brand differentiation? How much risk to take? As the Captain of the ship, the CEO has to commit the organization into battle.

 

Until you grasp the importance of strategic management, this discussion will just go around in circles forever.  Never blame the customer. It means that you've lost in the wilderness.

[RocketMan275]

5 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

What's the problem at Carnival HQ? 

You want a bunch of people who've never owned a boat to discuss how to run a cruise line?  People who've never managed a business or had to meet payroll?  Good Luck.

[drowelf]

1 hour ago, Tapi said:

Can someone be more specific about what direction Mr. Ashford is taking HAL? What things or changes are happening due to his leadership? I’m wondering if this is the typical “this cruise line is going downhill” thread that appears on pretty much every single cruise line board on Cruise Critic, or if there’s some true substance to it.

 

We will be taking our second HAL cruise in a few months. We had a great cruise on the Westerdam in 2013 but considered that the HAL product failed to stand out. So we haven’t considered booking another HAL cruise since then. But it is because of the changes, new onboard offerings, latest class of ship, and overall new image, why we were attracted to finally book another HAL cruise, this time aboard the Niew Statendam. 

 

Could HAL be headed in a direction that’s different than what some loyal customers would like, but not necessarily downhill?

Here are some very concrete things we have noticed over the last 5 years. 

 

• Reduction in staff, especially in the steward area and cruise director staff. There used to be a CD, ACD and they had a couple of staff. Now it seems if there is just the CD and ACD. This results in a reduction of on-board activities for Sea Days. Stewards and Assistants now have to take care of more cabins than before. 
• Elimination of the Exc/Port Guide. These were often individuals who had detailed knowledge about the ports we would be visiting and gave excellent information on the ports and infrastructure. As we are primarily DIY folks for tours, we appreciate any and all information about local ports. Seen posts about the CD now taking over this roll too, which probably means the loss of all this valuable information. 
• Shows. I'm not talking about quality, if I want Broadway level entertainment, I'll go to to a major city which has a first class theater reputation.  The number of Production shows has been going down over the years. More comedians and magicians, less shows. 
• Adding the HSC has led to a bit of a service level decline. I fully understand why it happened, with the introduction of Anytime Dining, but since the MDR staff does not have to work for those tips, they don't make quite the same effort. Back before HSC, we would see the Matre de pretty much every night. Last cruise (14 days) I don't remember having him stop by and ask how we are doing even once. As an example, after the first night or two, I would always have a glass of ice tea delivered to my place soon after sitting down. Now I have to ask for it and sometimes it has not arrived until after we have ordered dinner. 

Having primarily sailed HAL over the years, I realize the grass is not any greener at the other lines, unless we want to really spend up to the Luxury brands, which would cut into the number of cruises we could afford. 

 

Trying Princess for the first time next year. We'll see what happens. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by drowelf

[rucrazy]

13 minutes ago, drowelf said:

 Trying Princess for the first time next year. We'll see what happens. 

 

Good Luck,

We gave Princess three trys and decided not to proceed further. We felt food and service both fell below where HAL and Celebrity stood at that time.

[awhcruiser]

I have no idea who that person is.

[awhcruiser]

4 hours ago, Tennessee Titan said:

Yet another "Why do you hate HAL" thread! Will it never end....

Bingo...Same thing different name......

[rucrazy]

Just now, awhcruiser said:

Bingo...Same thing different name......

no i must disagree.

The reason I started this thread was because of a difference I noted in product, since the new President took over Holland America Line.

I know how i feel, but I needed/wanted to see if it was my imagination or something to it.

I felt a poll would let me see #’s to get a clearer picture.

I did not start the thread to bash the cruise line.

 

Joseph