Real ID

[navybankerteacher]

9 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

They are likely staffed anyway and if they aren't then the person without the proper ID will have to chill their heels until they are there. The accommodations will be there but there is nothing that says they will necessarily be timely.

One of the reasons that TSA lines are so long is that they are not fully “staffed anyway”.  Accommodations which are not timely, when it comes to boarding a flight, means missing the flight.  

 

If the travelling public is aware that they will miss flights if they come without ID, they will bring their ID.  If it is generally assumed that accommodations will be made, those accommodations will be expected.   

 

 

[sparks1093]

8 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

One of the reasons that TSA lines are so long is that they are not fully “staffed anyway”.  Accommodations which are not timely, when it comes to boarding a flight, means missing the flight.  

 

If the travelling public is aware that they will miss flights if they come without ID, they will bring their ID.  If it is generally assumed that accommodations will be made, those accommodations will be expected.   

 

 

And most people assume accommodations won't be made. When my friend lost her license everyone was telling her "you won't be able to fly without it". She checked the TSA website and found out that there was a procedure in place that would allow her to fly without her license. 

[Donray]

With an estimated 70,000 showing up the first day and maybe one person capable of doing the screening if you no ID how long will the wait time be to get the No ID check??????????

[sparks1093]

23 minutes ago, Donray said:

With an estimated 70,000 showing up the first day and maybe one person capable of doing the screening if you no ID how long will the wait time be to get the No ID check??????????

That would be their problem, not mine, but in reading the TSA website it strongly suggests that people without a proper ID for whatever reason will still be processed and it clearly states that if they can't be cleared they won't be allowed past the checkpoint (which of course means that they miss their flight).

Edited October 8, 2019 by sparks1093

[Donray]

Homeland Security FAQ on Real IDs

 

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs

 

 

[sparks1093]

3 minutes ago, Donray said:

Homeland Security FAQ on Real IDs

 

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs

 

 

Q: What happens to travelers who show up without a compliant license? Will TSA turn them away?

Travelers who do not present a REAL ID-compliant license or acceptable alternative beginning October 1, 2020 will not be permitted through the security checkpoint.

 

Sounds like TSA needs to update their website (which isn't surprising at all).

[navybankerteacher]

What is really needed is for airlines and agents - online and brick-and-mortar - to be required to advise customers booking flights that they will not be permitted to board flights without appropriate ID (THAT MEANS ON THEIR PERSONS -AND NOT FORGOTTEN AT HOME) - and that there will be no refunds.

 

Perhaps the TSA should also start “playing hardball” - and not bend  over backwards to help careless people make their flights - at the obvious expense of everyone else.

If there is sufficient staff to accommodate the careless, perhaps their time would be better spent in expediting the people who do know what they are doing.

 

I will make sure to not be flying anywhere when the rules go into effect - the thounds of non-compliant people milling about will make airports pure hell.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by navybankerteacher

[sparks1093]

25 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

What is really needed is for airlines and agents - online and brick-and-mortar - to be required to advise customers booking flights that they will not be permitted to board flights without appropriate ID (THAT MEANS ON THEIR PERSONS -AND NOT FORGOTTEN AT HOME) - and that there will be no refunds.

 

Perhaps the TSA should also start “playing hardball” - and not bend  over backwards to help careless people make their flights - at the obvious expense of everyone else.

If there is sufficient staff to accommodate the careless, perhaps their time would be better spent in expediting the people who do know what they are doing.

 

I will make sure to not be flying anywhere when the rules go into effect - the thounds of non-compliant people milling about will make airports pure hell.

 

I doubt that there would be thousands and I'm sure that the airlines and travel agents will be advising customers. If the DHS FAQ is any indication then they will be playing hardball, but something tells me that in this day and age that will quickly fall by the wayside (the lack of political will that I mentioned earlier). I personally don't care since I have two forms of acceptable ID- my EDL and in the event I'm careless enough to allow it to be stolen I have my passport.

Edited October 8, 2019 by sparks1093

[SRF]

On 10/7/2019 at 12:33 PM, clo said:

Good point.  I bet it will be.

 

At least after the first jury call after it goes into effect. 😄

 

[SRF]

15 hours ago, clo said:

Yep.  And then Delta boarded her with no boarding pass.  They didn't say how they found her out and what the 'rest of the story' was.  Sigh.

 

I am not sure how she go through TSA.

 

But I could see, and I remember it having happened before, that when boarding the flight, the person attaches them to a large family group, where the boarding passes are handed to the agent in a stack.  They scan them, check visually, and send them through.  I can see with a large group, where they might miss that they scanned 5 but 6 walked on.  Especially of the person stays somewhat hidden from sight by the others.

 

In many foreign airports, each person has to present their own boarding pass, and ID, when boarding.

Edited October 8, 2019 by SRF

[SRF]

7 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Because sometimes unexpected things happen. IDs get lost or stolen. It's not a perfect world. As I just posted a friend lost her license and was still able to board her plane. Of course things will change next year when a REAL ID compliant license is required and it's currently completely unknown what procedure, if any, will be put in place for the outliers. (And yes, I do recognize the difference between those who don't obtain a compliant ID and those who have one. TSA has the ability to differentiate between the two but I doubt that they have the political will to implement a policy that does differentiate.)

 

Easy, you present a non-REAL ID DL, and nope, you don't fly, unless you have another complaint ID.

 

If you come up and state your DL was stolen, they run you through the alternative screening.

[ducklite]

On 10/5/2019 at 11:06 AM, Donray said:

The article I read said 70,000 the first day will not be able to board there plane on the first day Oct, 1, 2020. 

Thank the stars for TSA Pre--I will be returning from Europe two days later, and will have to connect through a major gateway airport, most likely JFK, CLT, or PHL, which will most likely mean re-entering the sterile concourse (ie clearing security).

 

This will be a poop show to watch, particularly because my home airport is MCO--which has got to serve the highest percentage of people who have never traveled further than their backyard in the past of any airport in the world.

[ducklite]

On 10/8/2019 at 1:54 PM, sparks1093 said:

I doubt that there would be thousands and I'm sure that the airlines and travel agents will be advising customers. If the DHS FAQ is any indication then they will be playing hardball, but something tells me that in this day and age that will quickly fall by the wayside (the lack of political will that I mentioned earlier). I personally don't care since I have two forms of acceptable ID- my EDL and in the event I'm careless enough to allow it to be stolen I have my passport.

FYI--your belongings can be stolen even if you are careful with them.  You could get mugged, your home could be broken into, someone could rifle through your drawer at work--I've worked in numerous offices where there were six keys that between them opened every desk in the place--and those keys can be bought online.

[sparks1093]

22 minutes ago, ducklite said:

FYI--your belongings can be stolen even if you are careful with them.  You could get mugged, your home could be broken into, someone could rifle through your drawer at work--I've worked in numerous offices where there were six keys that between them opened every desk in the place--and those keys can be bought online.

That was kind of my point, that sometimes people don't have their ID no matter how careful they are and was in response to the previous poster's comment "not bend  over backwards to help careless people". Yes, sometimes people are careless but that doesn't mean that all of them are. If procedures are put in place to verify identity other than through an approved ID then those procedures would apply to everyone, the TSA wouldn't be making a value judgment about whether someone was careless or not.

[sparks1093]

On 10/8/2019 at 2:23 PM, SRF said:

 

Easy, you present a non-REAL ID DL, and nope, you don't fly, unless you have another complaint ID.

 

If you come up and state your DL was stolen, they run you through the alternative screening.

Yep, it can be that simple.

[SRF]

7 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Yep, it can be that simple.

 

On 10/8/2019 at 2:23 PM, SRF said:

 

Easy, you present a non-REAL ID DL, and nope, you don't fly, unless you have another complaint ID.

 

If you come up and state your DL was stolen, they run you through the alternative screening.

 

One addition, if the alternative screening comes up that you do not have a REAL ID complaint ID at all, them you don't get to fly.

 

To stop those that have their ID, it is just not REAL ID, from claiming they lost their ID.

 

Yes, I am a pessimist at times. 😄

 

[ducklite]

On 10/6/2019 at 4:27 PM, cruisemom42 said:

 

I haven't read this thread in depth so pardons if this has already been asked/answered....  If you will need a real ID to enter a Federal courthouse, what happens if you are summoned for jury duty and don't have one?

 

(Having just served on a Federal jury for 10 days, I'm pretty sure our Federal courthouse would be one of the types of Federal buildings impacted?)

 

Interesting question.  My brother would tell them to go suck it.  He renewed his license before his state had the new system in place, and as far as he's concerned, he's not spending a dime to get a new one before that one expires.  The furthest he travels is about two hours from home to see our mother.

[ducklite]

On 10/6/2019 at 7:17 PM, clo said:

"Ignorance of the law excuses not."

If the State didn't have the scheme in place in advance of people's renewal dates, they should not be required to spend more time and money to get a new license before the current one expires.  The Federal government could take it up with the state, not the license holder who did nothing wrong.

[ducklite]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:00 AM, clo said:

My point was that I'd assume most people wouldn't inconvenience themselves by showing up somewhere knowing in advance that they won't be 'admitted.' So IMO they would be ignorant of the law.

People who don't travel and don't need to renew a license anytime soon have no reason to have knowledge of this "law."  

 

Using your analogy, you should know every subsection of the Federal laws pertaining to cattle ranching on leased land.  

[ducklite]

On 10/7/2019 at 12:16 PM, sparks1093 said:

I didn't get DW to DMV until today. According to the person working on the license renewal it is an option to receive a non-compliant license and to the best of her knowledge that will be a permanent thing.

That would be a suitable option for elderly people who drive 30 miles each week to church, the grocery store, and doctors appointments, and will never travel outside the US, never fly anywhere, and are exempt from jury duty and the like given their age. Some of those people could have a hard time coming up with all of the documents required for the compliant DL's.

[ducklite]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:13 PM, clo said:

Er, you must have missed this evening's news.  There was a Delta flight where someone boarded the airplane with no ID and no boarding pass.  So both TSA and Delta flunked 😞

In FloriDUH at my home airport.

 

What really pisses me off about the whole thing is that instead of strip searching the employees at the airport who allowed this to happen and were quite possibly in cahoots with her, they put every person on that flight through extra security including full body searches.  Talk about half-assed backwards ideas. Further punish the people who had nothing to do with her and let the morons who at the least created the problem continue on their day like nothing happened.  Anyone who still believes that this billion dollar boondoggle called TSA is doing a single thing to protect you from the bogeyman is delusional.  

[ducklite]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:25 PM, clo said:

Yep.  And then Delta boarded her with no boarding pass.  They didn't say how they found her out and what the 'rest of the story' was.  Sigh.

She was sitting in a seat assigned to another woman and refused to move.  The rightful "owner" of the seat went to an FA and complained.  The "stowaway" couldn't produce a boarding pass of government ID and refused to move.  Police were called, and the best part is that the lady slipped away and they had no idea who she even was.  What a Laurel and Hardy story.

[sparks1093]

8 minutes ago, ducklite said:

That would be a suitable option for elderly people who drive 30 miles each week to church, the grocery store, and doctors appointments, and will never travel outside the US, never fly anywhere, and are exempt from jury duty and the like given their age. Some of those people could have a hard time coming up with all of the documents required for the compliant DL's.

I know a lot of younger people who also meet that definition (with the exception of jury duty and if not having a REAL ID gets you out of Federal jury duty that would be seen as a plus by many).

[ducklite]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:03 PM, new_cruiser said:

 

I've never gone through them personally, but from what others have experienced, the alternative procedures are very time consuming. There has to be some way for a person to board if, for example, they are away from home and their wallet gets stolen so they have no ID, but in that case, the person can realize that they need to show up to the airport early for an extended procedure. 

 

If someone showed up without a RealID or passport because they didn't know that the old type of driver's license wasn't going to cut it anymore, they probably wouldn't have enough time to make their flight with the alternative process. From people who have been through it, I've heard it can take like an hour (off in a side interview room, not in the regular line). It can involve the kind of questions where some service supplies facts about you and you have to supply the answers (similar to verifying who you are for some kinds of on-line services). Basically, they go through alternative ways of verifying that you are who you say you are. 

 

It isn't something that any one with any sense would do just for the heck of it. 

 

Edited to add, I don't know if they'd even allow the alternative procedure to be used for someone who didn't bring the right ID because they hadn't gotten the right kind of license. That's not the same as the hardship reason of being away from home and having a lost/stolen ID.

It happened to my SIL--her handbag was stolen from someone reaching over the top of the stall in a ladies room and grabbing it from the hook and running off.  She had a police report, an old college ID, a library card, and her birth certificate.  She had a full body search and they searched and swabbed all of her items.  It was over an hour start to finish.  I think having the police report helped a lot in how they treated her.

[ducklite]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:20 PM, new_cruiser said:

 

Apparently we don't know that yet. The news report I just read said she didn't have ID or a boarding pass when she was on the plane. We don't know if she had an ID and a boarding pass (or alternative) when she was screened.

 

There are some alternatives to a boarding pass that can get you through TSA. E.g. you are standby on a flight so instead of a boarding pass you have something similar that says you are standby. I've had that when a canceled flight meant that I had to stay overnight someplace and try to get on another flight standby the next day. Parents (or other adults) escorting an "unescorted minor" to the gate so they can start their trip or picking up an unescorted minor at the gate. 

 

And of course all the airport workers who don't have boarding passes get in without one. 

 

I'm surprised that the person got on the plane without a boarding pass. I've boarded a lot of flights, dozens per year, and usually the gate staff is pretty good - you can't walk by them without scanning a boarding pass. I guess anything can happen once. 

She was not booked onto any flight, had not shows a government issued ID, and had not had any sort of "pass."  Airport and TSA  officials are being very tight lipped which tells me a number of people are going to end up fired over this.  And rightfully so.

 

I'd also add that the two responding officers will very likely face discipline for allowing her to just walk away after she left the plane.