Real ID

[ducklite]

3 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Dealing with an insider threat is much more difficult, but as I understand it part of the reason for REAL ID is to provide consistent security enhancements in the issuance of IDs across the states to make it harder to make a fake ID (note that "harder" does not equate to "impossible").  

Unless you are in NJ where numerous DMV employees have been arrested for supplying id's to people who didn't have the correct credentials to legally obtain one.  

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

This is why I think they will have some sort of alternative available.

The REAL ID is the available alternative to Global Entry, travelling with a passport or with birth certificate and supporting documentation. 

 

At at some point, there needs to be some standard — and for travelers posting here who resent the necessity for paying for that standard, how about an arrangement for some no-fee alternative -perhaps funded by a small tax added to every flight fare?

 

 

[ducklite]

19 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

The REAL ID is the available alternative to Global Entry, travelling with a passport or with birth certificate and supporting documentation. 

 

At at some point, there needs to be some standard — and for travelers posting here who resent the necessity for paying for that standard, how about an arrangement for some no-fee alternative -perhaps funded by a small tax added to every flight fare?

 

 

Anyone who can afford to fly can afford to get a compliant ID.

 

There is a substantial demographic of low income people who would find the requirement to obtain a REAL ID license or ID (particularly if they have to do so early because their state didn't participate when they last obtained or renewed) to enter a courthouse as onerous.  It often isn't just the cost of the ID, but taking time from work to go or even arranging transportation to a DMV (or airport for an interview) that can be a major burden. 

The cost of assisting these people to obtain this ID shouldn't be on air travelers, but perhaps a fund created by a surcharge to anyone convicted of a crime or the losing party in a civil action outside of small claims, probate, and family court.

Edited October 12, 2019 by ducklite

[SRF]

On 10/11/2019 at 10:13 AM, navybankerteacher said:

Dismissal “for cause” keeps a lot of people off juries — a bank officer is rarely seated on a civil liability case, and a former collateral duty  shore patrol officer rarely sits on a criminal case.

 

Although, the one time I went through voire dire, they selected the lady sitting next to me, who was a police dispatcher, and knew all the officers involved.

 

I was dismissed by the defense attorney.

[SRF]

1 hour ago, ducklite said:

Unless you are in NJ where numerous DMV employees have been arrested for supplying id's to people who didn't have the correct credentials to legally obtain one.  

 

Which is why, in Maryland, the DLs are not printed in a single location and mailed.  No longer printed at every DMV office.

 

[SRF]

18 hours ago, ducklite said:

If our government wants us to have REAL ID's to get into courthouses, they need to figure out a way to pay for them for those who can't afford them and would never need one unless they were dragged into a courthouse because of someone else's problems.  

 

Not all states are charging extra for REAL ID.  

 

Maryland does not.

 

And for most people, it is handled with their normal renewal.  Which has required going to the DMV for eye check and new photo anyway.

 

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, ducklite said:

Anyone who can afford to fly can afford to get a compliant ID.

 

There is a substantial demographic of low income people who would find the requirement to obtain a REAL ID license or ID (particularly if they have to do so early because their state didn't participate when they last obtained or renewed) to enter a courthouse as onerous.  It often isn't just the cost of the ID, but taking time from work to go or even arranging transportation to a DMV (or airport for an interview) that can be a major burden. 

The cost of assisting these people to obtain this ID shouldn't be on air travelers, but perhaps a fund created by a surcharge to anyone convicted of a crime or the losing party in a civil action outside of small claims, probate, and family court.

This would amount to impising a double penalty upon criminals or losing parties in civil actions - perhaps just a special tax imposed on people who can afford to cruise, post on Cruise Critic, and believe that getting REAL ID should be funded by someone other than the person getting the REAL ID.

[ducklite]

2 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Which is why, in Maryland, the DLs are not printed in a single location and mailed.  No longer printed at every DMV office.

 

However if the person "reviewing" the documents at DMV is on the take, it doesn't really matter where anything is printed.

[ducklite]

2 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Not all states are charging extra for REAL ID.  

 

Maryland does not.

 

And for most people, it is handled with their normal renewal.  Which has required going to the DMV for eye check and new photo anyway.

 

You are missing the point. Not everyone has a state ID or Drivers Licenses.  Some states have only just come onto the system, and if a person renewed two years ago and now is being told they need to renew eight years early to sit on a jury, that's a crock.  Some people use their ID issued for social benefits as ID.  The government needs to come up with a solution that won't penalize the poor.

[ducklite]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

This would amount to impising a double penalty upon criminals or losing parties in civil actions - perhaps just a special tax imposed on people who can afford to cruise, post on Cruise Critic, and believe that getting REAL ID should be funded by someone other than the person getting the REAL ID.

It would be no different than other court imposed fees, many of which are not fines or civil judgements.

[sparks1093]

9 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The REAL ID is the available alternative to Global Entry, travelling with a passport or with birth certificate and supporting documentation. 

 

At at some point, there needs to be some standard — and for travelers posting here who resent the necessity for paying for that standard, how about an arrangement for some no-fee alternative -perhaps funded by a small tax added to every flight fare?

 

 

The post you quoted was directed at people needing REAL ID for getting into a federal courthouse for jury duty, not to travelers.

[sparks1093]

10 hours ago, ducklite said:

Unless you are in NJ where numerous DMV employees have been arrested for supplying id's to people who didn't have the correct credentials to legally obtain one.  

There is the human element that needs to be considered and management controls can be put into place to minimize this, also.

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

The post you quoted was directed at people needing REAL ID for getting into a federal courthouse for jury duty, not to travelers.

The difference is not worth a gob of spit.  

 

People need to be able to reliably identify themselves - to board planes, enter courthouses, or collect state or federal benefits.

 

The fact that it might take a bit of effort, or require a small expenditure, is immaterial.

 

 

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

The difference is not worth a gob of spit.  

 

People need to be able to reliably identify themselves - to board planes, enter courthouses, or collect state or federal benefits.

 

The fact that it might take a bit of effort, or require a small expenditure, is immaterial.

 

 

A lot of people don't have that need and if they don't have that need why would they go through the trouble to be able to enter the courthouse for jury duty? I know a good number of people who have never flown, have no interest in flying and will likely live out their days with their feet firmly planted on terra firma (as a former naval aviator who loves everything about flying I don't get it, but that's irrelevant). If they don't have an exception to the ID rule for those called for jury duty then those folks won't be able to sit on the jury and they can't be punished because there is no law that says a REAL ID is required except in very limited circumstances. 

[CPT Trips]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

The difference is not worth a gob of spit.  

 

People need to be able to reliably identify themselves - to board planes, enter courthouses, or collect state or federal benefits.

 

The fact that it might take a bit of effort, or require a small expenditure, is immaterial.

 

 

 

What does ID have to do with entering a courthouse or boarding a plane? If the gatekeepers perform an effective physical security screening who enters is immaterial. It's not that presenting an ID is a substitute for a physical screening in those settings.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by CPT Trips

[clo]

10 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The REAL ID is the available alternative to Global Entry, travelling with a passport or with birth certificate and supporting documentation. 

 

Don't you have to have a passport to get Global Entry?

[navybankerteacher]

25 minutes ago, clo said:

Don't you have to have a passport to get Global Entry?

Yes - but either one would serve as acceptable ID for a domestic US flight.

[clo]

4 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Yes - but either one would serve as acceptable ID for a domestic US flight.

I need to get GE and my new Chase Sapphire Reserve card will pay for it.  Need to do the paperwork and see about getting it in Houston when we return from S. America in December.  Is it credit card size?

[navybankerteacher]

40 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

 

What does ID have to do with entering a courthouse or boarding a plane? If the gatekeepers perform an effective physical security screening who enters is immaterial. It's not that presenting an ID is a substitute for a physical screening in those settings.

 

 

No, presenting an ID is not a substitute  for appropriate screening -but  such ID, along with such screening, has been deemed to be prequisite to boarding a flight.    If you do not like the existence of such procedures, write to your Congressman, there is no point in arguing about it on CC.

[navybankerteacher]

1 minute ago, clo said:

I need to get GE and my new Chase Sapphire Reserve card will pay for it.  Need to do the paperwork and see about getting it in Houston when we return from S. America in December.  Is it credit card size?

Yes - that size seems to have gained widespread applicability.

[clo]

Just now, navybankerteacher said:

Yes - that size seems to have gained widespread applicability.

Well, that could be a good option for those with a passport but not Real ID.  I just don't want to travel with my passport any more than necessary.  It won't fit in my wallet so then I need to have a 'special' place for it in my handbag.  But I got the Real ID so moot for me but thanks for mentioning.

[davekathy]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Well, that could be a good option for those with a passport but not Real ID.  I just don't want to travel with my passport any more than necessary.  It won't fit in my wallet so then I need to have a 'special' place for it in my handbag.  But I got the Real ID so moot for me but thanks for mentioning.

"The most important difference between U.S. passport books and passport cards is that passport cards are not valid for international air travel; they're only acceptable for land and sea border crossings between the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Bermuda and the Caribbean".

[clo]

8 minutes ago, davekathy said:

"The most important difference between U.S. passport books and passport cards is that passport cards are not valid for international air travel; they're only acceptable for land and sea border crossings between the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Bermuda and the Caribbean".

I tell ya I've scanned numerous sites and can't find one single answer.  So I'll stick with my Real ID for domestic travel etc.

[ducklite]

14 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

There is the human element that needs to be considered and management controls can be put into place to minimize this, also.

Not when the managers are in on it as well...

The most foolproof way is to have regional processing centers for all documents where they are mailed in like passports. It virtually eliminates the potential to pay someone off.  But that is probably not going to work well either, as people need to have their DL to drive, and if it needs to mailed in, it's a problem.

[ducklite]

14 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The difference is not worth a gob of spit.  

 

People need to be able to reliably identify themselves - to board planes, enter courthouses, or collect state or federal benefits.

 

The fact that it might take a bit of effort, or require a small expenditure, is immaterial.

 

 

You've obviously never been living at or below the poverty line where the cost of obtaining an ID that you don't need for any reason except to be called for jury duty could mean the difference between paying the electric bill and living in the darkness for a few weeks.