Dog bite on board

[klfrodo]

8 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

So you don't think a person with a service dog for their deafness or for their seiures or for their needs if they are in a wheelchair without mobility to pick up things, etc. or to alert them if their blood sugar is low because they have diabetes shouldn't be able to live a full life and cruise just like you, because you think it is cruel to take their service dog on a cruise.  Unbelievable.  

I'm on both sides of the fence on this. Live a full life? of course. Cruise just like me? Maybe, maybe not. Cruising is not a God given right.

Even though I am able bodied, there are some things I'm just never going to be able to experience. Whether it be mental, physical, or financial, I have certain limitations and I accept those limitations.

 

Obviously you are an animal lover and are well versed on the ADA. I applaud you. However, it's people like you who should be standing up and shouting from the highest trees about the continued and growing abuse by those who circumvent the regulations to take Fifi on vacation. You guys have the most to lose.

As my mother used to say when us siblings would fight,,, figure it out amongst yourselves because if I have to get involved neither of you are going to like my resolution.

[ducklite]

On 10/6/2019 at 11:02 PM, NLH Arizona said:

PTSD is covered by the ADA.

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

 

 

However the dog must be trained to perform a TASK related to the disability. Just letting someone pet it is NOT a task.

[ducklite]

14 hours ago, dkjretired said:

 

Yes and No, the dog has to provide a specific service to the person with PTSD.  The relevant line from the link is, "Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA."  Unfortunately, many do not know this.   We had a story about this in our local paper a couple of years ago involving a restaurant.  The ironic thing was the that the person who had the dog and the reporter did not know what the law was.  The only one who did was the restaurant owner and he got blasted in the newspaper for being right. 

Ironically my husband got tangled up with a person in Central NJ in another situation where an attorney had to become involved to write to the person with the dog and make them aware that in their case, the ADA covering service dogs does not apply because the dog in question was an emotional support animal, was poorly trained, and was disruptive and had been aggressive towards others.  Plus it pooped on the carpet--which a service animal wouldn't do except in the most extreme circumstances.

[ducklite]

On 10/4/2019 at 10:04 AM, ilikeanswers said:

 

Any cruise lines started cashing in on the fad? They say the pet industry is a billion dollar market and I could envision cruise ships with doggy daycares and pet pampering services😂.

 

Cunard offers this and has for years.

[NLH Arizona]

1 hour ago, klfrodo said:

I'm on both sides of the fence on this. Live a full life? of course. Cruise just like me? Maybe, maybe not. Cruising is not a God given right.

Even though I am able bodied, there are some things I'm just never going to be able to experience. Whether it be mental, physical, or financial, I have certain limitations and I accept those limitations.

 

Obviously you are an animal lover and are well versed on the ADA. I applaud you. However, it's people like you who should be standing up and shouting from the highest trees about the continued and growing abuse by those who circumvent the regulations to take Fifi on vacation. You guys have the most to lose.

As my mother used to say when us siblings would fight,,, figure it out amongst yourselves because if I have to get involved neither of you are going to like my resolution.

First, trust me, I'm the first person who speaks up about the abuse of the emotional support debacle.  If you have ever read any of my posts on the subject, you will see where I stand.  I've written letters to airlines and our government asking them to crack down on these abuses.  I have nothing to lose, as my dog has never been on a flight and never will because she is a pet.

 

I'm totally on the other side of the coin and feel that if a service dog can help a person live a more normal life, they should be able to have one and go and do everything that anyone else can do.  If you feel it is okay to limit them, that is your opinion, but I strongly disagree.  BTW, cruising is a right extended to you and everyone else and there should be no limitations, unless they place them on themselves.

 

[NLH Arizona]

45 minutes ago, ducklite said:

 

However the dog must be trained to perform a TASK related to the disability. Just letting someone pet it is NOT a task.

You are totally correct and there is the difference between a true service dog and an emotional support dog.  There are many organizations that are very good at training dogs for folks, especially veterans, who suffer from PTSD.

[SRF]

1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

BTW, cruising is a right extended to you and everyone else and there should be no limitations, unless they place them on themselves.

 

Cruising is not a right.  It is a priviledge.

 

But yes, it should be available to anyone who wants to.

[Milwaukee Eight]

On 9/30/2019 at 4:43 PM, chengkp75 said:

Even if the ship is in port, and even in a US port, unless the incident affected the "safety or well being" of the port, then the jurisdiction lies with the "flag state" (the nation where the ship is registered).  There are also instances where a nation exerts "extraterritorial jurisdiction" over incidents, such as the US claiming jurisdiction on foreign ships, in international waters, for cases of theft or major crimes (assault, rape, murder).  So, as this did happen at sea, then the laws of whatever nation (Bahamas, Panama, Malta, Bermuda, etc) the ship is registered in will apply.  As noted, in the cruise contract, there is verbiage regarding what civil suits can be brought against the line, and for what reasons, and in what jurisdiction.

I’m late to the game here. 
 

When has the cruise contract stopped some lawyers from suing the Cruise Lines?  

[GUT2407]

7 hours ago, DarrenM said:

Unless its a dog for the blind or partially sighted, surely its just cruelty to take any animal on a cruise ship.

 

Yes, I believe it is.

 

I have nothing further to add.

Which shows how little you know about just how many types of service dogs there are.

[GUT2407]

2 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I’m late to the game here. 
 

When has the cruise contract stopped some lawyers from suing the Cruise Lines?  

Anyone can sue, but the suit may be doomed from the outset.

[ilikeanswers]

7 hours ago, DarrenM said:

Unless its a dog for the blind or partially sighted, surely its just cruelty to take any animal on a cruise ship.

 

Why would it be cruel to take an animal on a cruise ship? Is there something particularly harmful about cruise ships to animal welfare? 

[Lard Greystoke]

37 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Why would it be cruel to take an animal on a cruise ship? Is there something particularly harmful about cruise ships to animal welfare? 

Apart from being with its owner - assuming the owner actually cares for the animal and isn't some narcissistic twit using it as a prop - there is no reason an animal would want to be on a cruise ship.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

BTW, cruising is a right extended to you and everyone else and there should be no limitations, unless they place them on themselves.

So, let me get this right.  The ability to take a cruise (a recreational activity) is a right, and there should be no limitations, have I got that correct?  So, I can't afford the cruise, but it is my right, so they have to let me cruise?  Can a blind person demand to fly a sport airplane, as a right?  A woman 9 months pregnant should be allowed to cruise a transatlantic, because it is her right?

6 hours ago, SRF said:

Cruising is not a right.  It is a priviledge.

 

[GUT2407]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

So, let me get this right.  The ability to take a cruise (a recreational activity) is a right, and there should be no limitations, have I got that correct?  So, I can't afford the cruise, but it is my right, so they have to let me cruise?  Can a blind person demand to fly a sport airplane, as a right?  A woman 9 months pregnant should be allowed to cruise a transatlantic, because it is her right?

 

Not a right to cruise, but the same right to cruise as a person without a disability.

[GUT2407]

Seems some folk here would like to see a return to the early 1900s when anyone with a disability was locked away somewhere out of sight.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, GUT2407 said:

Not a right to cruise, but the same right to cruise as a person without a disability.

This I totally agree with.

[NLH Arizona]

33 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

So, let me get this right.  The ability to take a cruise (a recreational activity) is a right, and there should be no limitations, have I got that correct?  So, I can't afford the cruise, but it is my right, so they have to let me cruise?  Can a blind person demand to fly a sport airplane, as a right?  A woman 9 months pregnant should be allowed to cruise a transatlantic, because it is her right?

 

I was referring to those with service dogs who, yes have the right to cruise, as long as they abide by the rules the cruise line has set. Your other examples have nothing to do with service dogs, so I won't even respond to them. 

[NLH Arizona]

35 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Not a right to cruise, but the same right to cruise as a person without a disability.

And that was my point.

[AmazedByCruising]

1 hour ago, GUT2407 said:

Not a right to cruise, but the same right to cruise as a person without a disability.

 

Can you elaborate on that? You were answering to Chenkp75 who asked if for instance a 9 months pregnant woman should have the "right to cruise". While I wouldn't categorize pregnancy as a "disability", isn't it obvious that a ship wouldn't and certainly shouldn't allow her to embark? 

 

I think there's no such thing as a "right to cruise" for anyone, like there is no "right to eat at McDonalds". Cruise companies are just that, companies. Free to decide if they want customer X and free to say no to customer Y for whatever reason. 

[GUT2407]

5 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

Can you elaborate on that? You were answering to Chenkp75 who asked if for instance a 9 months pregnant woman should have the "right to cruise". While I wouldn't categorize pregnancy as a "disability", isn't it obvious that a ship wouldn't and certainly shouldn't allow her to embark? 

 

I think there's no such thing as a "right to cruise" for anyone, like there is no "right to eat at McDonalds". Cruise companies are just that, companies. Free to decide if they want customer X and free to say no to customer Y for whatever reason. 

Actually under many countries anti discrimination laws (America’s ADA act being one) they do not have a right to say no to some customers. They can say you need to provide x, y or z if you need it, but not “No we don’t want your business because you use a wheelchair or a service dog, or glasses or hearing aids.

[AmazedByCruising]

2 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Actually under many countries anti discrimination laws (America’s ADA act being one) they do not have a right to say no to some customers. They can say you need to provide x, y or z if you need it, but not “No we don’t want your business because you use a wheelchair or a service dog, or glasses or hearing aids.

 

 

They wouldn't care about the hearing aids, they'd care that you're less likely to buy a shorex that has 50 steps. Most ships don't fly the American flag, and I doubt Panama or Malta would care about such discrimination at all.

Personally, I think it's absurd to be forced to have  a customer you don't want for whatever reason (even it's a cake for a gay couple).

 

[ldubs]

On 10/7/2019 at 12:38 AM, crazyank said:

Apparently someone did just that or something similar on one of our cruises several years ago.  Nasty little dog that was constantly yapping and snapping at people turned up missing and wasn't found by the end of the cruise despite numerous announcements to be on the lookout for the missing dog.

 

Probably a hit & run by an electric scooter.   😀

[calliopecruiser]

5 hours ago, GUT2407 said:

Actually under many countries anti discrimination laws (America’s ADA act being one) they do not have a right to say no to some customers. They can say you need to provide x, y or z if you need it, but not “No twe don’t want your business because you use a wheelchair or a service dog, or glasses or hearing aids

They can only say no regardingt people who don't fall into a protected class, and disabilities are one of those protected classes.  Others include sex (or gender, I'm not sure), race, and religion.   They are allowed to say no and discriminate for things that aren't covered by protection, such as size or past arrests, for example. 

[DarrenM]

17 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

So you don't think a person with a service dog for their deafness or for their seiures or for their needs if they are in a wheelchair without mobility to pick up things, etc. or to alert them if their blood sugar is low because they have diabetes shouldn't be able to live a full life and cruise just like you, because you think it is cruel to take their service dog on a cruise.  Unbelievable.  

Ok let me qualify this a little. I said dogs for the blind, but the same applies to any other disability.

 

Hope this clarifies.

[DarrenM]

10 hours ago, GUT2407 said:

Which shows how little you know about just how many types of service dogs there are.

Clarified above.