Are we the last of the Formal Dress people?

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, K32682 said:

Formal nights are rapidly and thankfully becoming an anachronism on modern mass market cruising. Rejoice. 

No they are not. Read the post earlier on, that stated that 80% of pax from Southampton wore ties. Just because you don't like it, you cannot twist the facts to fit your personal feelings.

[DirtyDawg]

I wore suits for most of my business career. Not just any suit, they had to be navy blue or grey. The ties all had to be power ties, conservative, not fancy. You had to look a certain way to fit in with the office culture and had to show that culture to clients. So no brown suits, no fancy checked sports jackets, and no lighter blues even in the summer. After retiring and moving into academia I went crazy and bought a lighter blue suit, a couple of brown suits, and a couple of nice and fancy sport jackets.  I think I wore a suit once at the university for a meeting (the tie came right off afterwards) and the sports jackes a couple of times. 

 

If people want to dress up formally on a cruise go right ahead. I'm over that. I'll wear a suit to a wedding. Maybe I will wear a suit to a funeral if the deceased was a formal person (i.e. I'm not wearing a suit to a buddy's funeral if he wore jeans all his life). But not on a cruise ship. I might wear a suit on the HMY Britannia if Liz or Chuck invites me but I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon.😉

 

To all those tuxedo wearing folks on my next cruise, enjoy yourselves and I promise I won't ask you to fetch me my Scotch on the rocks. 😊

[shipgeeks]

11 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

So, why don’t you get a sitter or take the kids with you and go out to a nice restaurant and dress up. 

Hmm, let's see.  A night out in the hometown, dressed up.  Drive or taxi to a place.  Have a nice drink at a lounge with a good view.  Walk by a dance floor with some good music playing; step in for a couple of dances.  On to a stage show, not too long. Another turn or two at a dance venue on the way to dinner.  Two other couples we've met recently are arriving at our reserved dinner table just as we get there.  A nice leisurely dinner with lots of interesting conversation.  A drink in a nearby lounge, and/or a stroll outdoors to see the stars. Can we have another drink and still drive home safely?  Can we get a taxi this late at night?  Will the babysitter mind that we are later than we planned?

No thanks.

[DarrenM]

What business were you in that required a "power tie" Whatever that is, and a suit of a certain colour?

 

And who the hell demanded it?

 

I wear a suit for work, but never a tie. And I have a couple of pretty loud coloured suits.

 

I dont need to wear a suit though. Its just easier, as I travel a lot.

[DarrenM]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

Fine, I just think there are more important things in life to worry about. 

You are probably right, but there again, a lot of whats wrong withthe world start with folk so hung up on certain nonsense when in reality there are millions starving.

 

Thats a bit extreme, but I hope you get my point.

 

With all the worlds problems, its more than a little ridiculous that some folk think dress codes are important.

[K32682]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

No they are not. Read the post earlier on, that stated that 80% of pax from Southampton wore ties. Just because you don't like it, you cannot twist the facts to fit your personal feelings.

 

My own experience varies but admittedly I have not sailed from Southampton nor on the tonier lines like Cunard whose ships sail from their frequently.  If 80 per cent did wear ties it was a voluntary choice not an edict imposed by a cruise line (Cunard excepted.) The same post also said the U.S. ports had a lower participation rate.  

 

On my Princess cruise to Alaska I'd estimate ties were worn about about 30 per cent of the male passengers, some wore just jackets and one or two dottering codgers wore tuxedos.  My other recent cruises would put the fancy pants participation rate around 50 per cent mostly among older cruises. 

[DarrenM]

I counted every person every day on my last cruise at every meal.

 

6.3% wore tuxedos. All over 65 years of age.

14.6% wore suits. 95% of those were over 65.

The rest of us were having too much fun to care.😉

[Milwaukee Eight]

21 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

Hmm, let's see.  A night out in the hometown, dressed up.  Drive or taxi to a place.  Have a nice drink at a lounge with a good view.  Walk by a dance floor with some good music playing; step in for a couple of dances.  On to a stage show, not too long. Another turn or two at a dance venue on the way to dinner.  Two other couples we've met recently are arriving at our reserved dinner table just as we get there.  A nice leisurely dinner with lots of interesting conversation.  A drink in a nearby lounge, and/or a stroll outdoors to see the stars. Can we have another drink and still drive home safely?  Can we get a taxi this late at night?  Will the babysitter mind that we are later than we planned?

No thanks.

Dancing and drinking requires Formal wear? Taxi/Uber?  Can’t you do the same things you mentioned on nights other than Formal? 

 

i always suspected that many who push for Formal nights never dress up at home. 
 

How do you feel about others not dressing up for Formal nights and enjoying the same things you mention?

[DarrenM]

I would never try to stop anyone wearing what they like. So if they want to wear a tuxedo then crack on.

 

What I object to is those that demand we all wear them.

 

I would more likely dress as a clown, like the fella on Princess a couple of months ago, if they tried to force me into a tuxedo.

[wowzz]

10 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 

My own experience varies but admittedly I have not sailed from Southampton nor on the tonier lines like Cunard whose ships sail from their frequently.  If 80 per cent did wear ties it was a voluntary choice not an edict imposed by a cruise line (Cunard excepted.) The same post also said the U.S. ports had a lower participation rate.  

 

On my Princess cruise to Alaska I'd estimate ties were worn about about 30 per cent of the male passengers, some wore just jackets and one or two dottering codgers wore tuxedos.  My other recent cruises would put the fancy pants participation rate around 50 per cent mostly among older cruises. 

P&O have many sailings from Southampton,  with an enforced dress code on formal nights. Obviously impossible to give an accurate number as to those wearing suits, ties, etc, but in my experience, around 75% at least conform to the code. P&O deliberately show formal dress in their TV ads, so obviously feel that this attracts more cruisers.

Strangely younger passengers seem more likely to dress up than some of the older clientele - I think that as the youngsters wear casual clothes 90% of the time, they actually enjoy being different and dressing up, rather than wearing the same clothes that they would wear when going down the pub.

[DarrenM]

my study above refutes that Wowzz.

 

You cant argue with facts. FACTS.

[DirtyDawg]

28 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

What business were you in that required a "power tie" Whatever that is, and a suit of a certain colour?

 

And who the hell demanded it?

 

I wear a suit for work, but never a tie. And I have a couple of pretty loud coloured suits.

 

I dont need to wear a suit though. Its just easier, as I travel a lot.

 

I was in the investment business. Managed pension funds and mutual funds early on. Our clients were the trustees the funds. Very formal meetings. I would also meet with CEO's and CFO's of companies we were interested in investing in. Mostly, very formal meetings if we met at their corporate offices or at our shop. More informal if we met at a production plant or mine.

 

It's just the way my industry was in the 80's and 90's. It got less formal in recent years in the corporate world but we still dressed very formally when we met with high net worth clients which is the area I concentrated on in the later part of my career. 

 

As for power ties, google it.

[DarrenM]

Arent P&O renowned for their party passengers?

 

I doubt they are the sort to wear a Tuxedo on any night.

[DarrenM]

1 minute ago, DirtyDawg said:

 

I was in the investment business. Managed pension funds and mutual funds early on. Our clients were the trustees the funds. Very formal meetings. I would also meet with CEO's and CFO's of companies we were interested in investing in. Mostly, very formal meetings if we met at their corporate offices or at our shop. More informal if we met at a production plant or mine.

 

It's just the way my industry was in the 80's and 90's. It got less formal in recent years in the corporate world but we still dressed very formally when we met with high net worth clients which is the area I concentrated on in the later part of my career. 

 

As for power ties, google it.

Thanks for that DirtyDawg

 

Interesting stuff. I would have hated it.

[DarrenM]

I did have a boss once that tried to enforce a tie culture.

 

He failed on an Epic scale.

[cruizergal70]

47 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

Hmm, let's see.  A night out in the hometown, dressed up.  Drive or taxi to a place.  Have a nice drink at a lounge with a good view.  Walk by a dance floor with some good music playing; step in for a couple of dances.  On to a stage show, not too long. Another turn or two at a dance venue on the way to dinner.  Two other couples we've met recently are arriving at our reserved dinner table just as we get there.  A nice leisurely dinner with lots of interesting conversation.  A drink in a nearby lounge, and/or a stroll outdoors to see the stars. Can we have another drink and still drive home safely?  Can we get a taxi this late at night?  Will the babysitter mind that we are later than we planned?

No thanks.

A top hometown restaurant,  dancing, and a babysitter is a much better experience than a $5 lobster tail in the basic MDR. 

[DarrenM]

Maybe. But a burger in a bread roll, with cheese and some bbq sauce is probably better in the MDR.

 

And sometimes that burger just hits the spot that some Lobster never will.

[K32682]

5 minutes ago, wowzz said:

P&O have many sailings from Southampton,  with an enforced dress code on formal nights. Obviously impossible to give an accurate number as to those wearing suits, ties, etc, but in my experience, around 75% at least conform to the code. P&O deliberately show formal dress in their TV ads, so obviously feel that this attracts more cruisers.

Strangely younger passengers seem more likely to dress up than some of the older clientele - I think that as the youngsters wear casual clothes 90% of the time, they actually enjoy being different and dressing up, rather than wearing the same clothes that they would wear when going down the pub.

 

The bottom line is whether P&O employees deny entrance to the dining rooms and bars if a passenger is not wearing formal attire. Many cruise lines make recommendations but they will not deny access unless you are in a bathing suit or similar beach attire.  It's a vacation cruise not a costume party.  

 

 

[DarrenM]

Lets say, for example, the fella in casual attire is rather loaded cash wise, and has a number of friends on board that he has paid for. Can you imagine P&O annoying him by refusing him and his friends entry into the dining room, due to not wearing a tuxedo?

 

He then lets them know that he and his rich mates will cruise with a rival firm next time.

 

I would imagine the bosses at P&O wouldnt be impressed with the staff member that refused them entry.

 

The point is, we are all hypocrites really.

 

Rules would be altered to suit big spenders. As in all things in life.

[DarrenM]

Making dress codes frivalous nonsense.

[ducklite]

16 hours ago, clo said:

I'm surprised that they didn't have that info available.

They do, people just don't look for it.

[ducklite]

3 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

Lets say, for example, the fella in casual attire is rather loaded cash wise, and has a number of friends on board that he has paid for. Can you imagine P&O annoying him by refusing him and his friends entry into the dining room, due to not wearing a tuxedo?

 

He then lets them know that he and his rich mates will cruise with a rival firm next time.

 

I would imagine the bosses at P&O wouldnt be impressed with the staff member that refused them entry.

 

The point is, we are all hypocrites really.

 

Rules would be altered to suit big spenders. As in all things in life.

Perhaps on mass market lines, but not on the luxury and super premium ships.  I've seen people not meeting the (smart casual)  dress code turned away on Windstar until they changed.

[evandbob]

15 hours ago, wowzz said:

I'm sure you'll look very nice, but why do Celebrity bother having an elegant night when people wear what I would consider to be just normal attire?

 

The Celebrity dress code allows for some variety and is no longer as strict as it used to be for "elegant" night.

 

The answer for why it changed probably comes from their customers requesting it.

 

There are many things that used to considered de riguer for formal dress that we don't even think about today.  Times change and so do attitudes and standards.  Imagine the typical American woman of today trying to fit into a corset and a bustle dress with hat and gloves to match.

[wowzz]

26 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

my study above refutes that Wowzz.

 

You cant argue with facts. FACTS.

Thank you for your "facts" from your one and only cruise. 

[DirtyDawg]

26 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

Thanks for that DirtyDawg

 

Interesting stuff. I would have hated it.

 

But it paid really well! 😁