New Ship

[hamishg]

Its interesting to read the posts that appear from time to time regarding the itineries that Olsen’s do out of the UK – the underlining theme seems to be that people would like something new – but nobody is entirely sure what, as, if you start and finish from the UK there are only so many paths that you can take for either 7 or 14 day cruises.

The problem Olsen’s have is that so many people who are their core customers want to join and leave the ship at a UK port – and preferably one that is fairly close to their home. This restriction limits the choice of destinations and I feel for the cruise line trying to offer something new to people who have been to most of the ports already. There is no easy answer to this but it does mean that the bulk of the fleet is permanently based in northern waters.

A growing number of people are prepared to do a fly/cruise but with few ships available the choice has to be fairly limited – they do do very well with their present fleet, but I’m sure a lot of us yearn for a few different packages/destinations.

What they need is another ship – Fred Jnr has spoken at length on many occasions that new ships are in the pipeline but I rather doubt it. I have been led to believe that the major obstacle is in the board room, and while Fred Jnr is the head Fred Olsen Cruise Lines, the cruise line section is only a very minor part of the overall company which is headed by Fred Jnr’s sister who isn’t all that interested in allocating any substantial resources in the cruise line’s direction.

So what is this post leading up to …? I just happened to be browsing and stumbled upon the cruise ships for sale site and there for sale right now is what would be a wonderful addition to the Fred Olsen fleet -  The Pacific Princess – its not labled as such but looking at the photos and the details I’m almost certain that it the ship (or “the Love Boat”) for those that remember the TV series. It’s not cheap 100 million US$, but many 100 of millions cheaper than building new something similar – this is a quality shop and would have many years of life in it …….what do you all think?

[Britboys]

Whilst I don't disagree that Fred could do with another ship, some caution needs to be exercised when looking at websites advertising cruise ships for sale.  Many are just speculators who are brokers and have not even been asked to sell a particular ship.  Pacific Princess is of course part of the Princess fleet and they are currently selling cruises aboard her up to April 2021 - including long (over 90 day) cruises.

[hamishg]

You raise some interesting points –I think that the Pacific Princess is definitely for sale as by having it listed, word soon leaks, and it will be disadvantaging their future bookings so the Princess Corporation would be coming down hard on this site (Princess are fairly litigious if they want to be) if this wasn’t the case.

They have it listed at 100mil, and If someone decided that they would pay that price I think you would find that they would have no hesitation in cancelling forward bookings and offering refunds just like P & O did when they sold the Adonia recently to Azamara.  If the price got haggled downwards then the delivery date would be extended somewhat.

 I suspect that Princess are trying to sell it for the same reason that P & O sold the Adonia ……it’s too small and old to make the same type of $ per passenger that the larger ships make.

I still say that it would make a brilliant addition to Olsen’s fleet where it could be used in other parts of the world and open up some great new cruising opportunities.

[Britboys]

Sadly, I think there are some very unscrupulous ship brokers who just take a punt.  They rarely divulge the name of the ship which I think maybe gives them some protection legally.  Some ships have been seen on these sites and remained on them for several years.  Of course, I fully agree that almost any 'older' or 'smaller' ship is for sale at the right price.  I guess the other question for Fred would be whether they could make this ship profitable without significant modification.  Although she is the right size for Fred, she has a much smaller number of berths - for instance Braemar is a bit smaller (24,000 tons) and carries over 900 pax whereas this ship at 30,000 tons carries only 700.

Pacific Princess has 7 'sisters' which originally made up the 'R' Class ships for Renaissance Cruises.  The remaining 7 are all with the premium/luxury brands Azamara and Oceania, who charge higher rates than Fred.

Personally, I think Saga Sapphire would have made a great new flagship for Fred but sadly it appears she is off to a new Turkish cruise operator.

[hamishg]

Yes you are probably right Fred would probably prefer something quite a bit bigger to enhance the profit margin – you could always “stretch” it to enable another 300 or so berths but the price would have to be right to make this viable.

It’s significant that all those R Class ships are still sailing, well looked after, and none look like being retired – they’ve all been well built and I guess if I’m honest its very much wishful thinking on my part to dream of Fred actually buying it.

 I know who it would make a good addition to however, and that’s Paul Gaugain – the area where they operate has a lot of room for expansion and this would make the ideal ship to do it with. The Tahitian Princess (another sister R class ship) operated around there for Princess for quite a while – and successfully too.

I still think Fred needs at least 2 more ships and there are a couple that come to mind that may fit the bill: They are 2 of the ships that P&O Australia are currently operating in the South Pacific – The Pacific Aria ex HAL’s Ryndam which holds 1260, and the Pacific Dawn ex Princess – Regal Princess, which carries 1546.

There is a fairly relevant saying in this part of the world that Carnival sends her old ships down here to die and gives them as little maintenance as they can get away with. That said, if Fred got either of them at the right price and spent some serious money on a full refit they could be great addition and open up some new sailing locations.

[Pentlands]

Take the bull by the horns and have specially designed new ships like Saga have and are doing.

[hamishg]

Be careful what you wish for ....... a new ship would be nice, but I think you would almost certainly see a substantial rise in prices aboard any new ship to try and provide a better return on the substantial amount of capital needed. As I said in my original post - Fred Jnr has been talking about new ships for years, but I think he is always being stymied in the main Olsen Corporation board room who don't want to spend the money.

Fred Olsen cruises is only a very small part of the main Olsen corporation. 

[Pentlands]

Better ships better prices no problem for me, but Saga has not increased much for two new ships.

[Britboys]

On 10/22/2019 at 10:37 PM, Pentlands said:

Better ships better prices no problem for me, but Saga has not increased much for two new ships.

But Saga have always been a lot more expensive than Fred.  Saga are going all-inclusive but the prices (to me anyway) are a bit eye-watering.  For example - 7 nights to Germany & Scandinavia in August next year from £1979, 7 nights to Norway late September next year £2015.  There are also some 14/15 night cruises at around £2800.  I know Saga includes a lot more but that's still a lot of money for anyone who is a moderate drinker or less.  I can't see Fred wanting to go down that route.

[ovccruiser]

All inclusive is ok if both husband and wife drink. Even at Freds deal, I cannot justify paying the price as my wife does not drink and you must pay for both. 

[tring]

It is correct that it is Fred's sister who does not want to spend on the cruise line.  I was told that by one of Fred's Captains about 18 months ago when we were sitting at the Captains table.  Seems she would prefer to get rid of the cruise line altogether as "It does not make enough money".  We were talking to an Oceans/sales rep on board a Fred ship earlier this year and she said current expectation are that they will be getting new ship within the next 5 years as the current ones are getting older, but said it will be an older one(s) and not new builds.  I have also got the impression that they are more likely to go for something bigger than the 3 smallest ships.  However, as we all know nothing can be certain.

 

We came off the old Adonia (now Azamara Pursuit) a few days ago and an excellent ship it is under Azamara - back to the sort of refined feel of it when we first sailed on it as Swan Hellenic's Minerva II (our first cruise ship).  We did not travel on the 'Royal Princess' incarnation of the same ship and one try of Adonia left us with no wish to repeat, due to P&O's holiday camp style 'entertainments' taking over the ship and the restriction of set sittings for dinner with the self service only available about four nights out of 17, despite the brochure description for that first season saying it would be open every night (P&O did gives some extra on board spend for a future cruise to compensate for that change to the advertised position regards the self service).

 

We love that ship and would also be happy to try any of the other R class ships, I do not think it would be right for Fred with so many balconies that I feel Fred customers on average would not be willing to pay for.  Fred probably does need more economies of scale IMO, though it is certainly something that would interest us.  I would not be the slightest surprise if Carnival get rid of Pacific Princess - it is not even used to advantage as many cruises (like those for Adonia) are still calling at a lot of run of the mill ports/areas with just a few more unusual offerings.

 

The recent cruise with Azamara, in port every day, has indeed focused our minds on whether we will continue to travel with Fred, unless on a good deal, since up front pricings e.g. a Boudicca 2 week fly cruise in December next year, (which does appeal to us) is coming up at the same price for a port hole cabin (on a pppn basis) as we had got for the Azamara one in a balcony cabin after we had been successful in an upgrade bid, and we still booked that cruise about 4 months before we travelled, so were able to get reasonably priced flights and hotels at each end.  Azamara also include drinks that are better than Fred's AI package and also tips as standard.  The one failing is the cost of trips with Azamara, if it was a distant cruise were we may wish to book some.

 

I do think Fred needs to do something to either improve his cruise experience with newer ships or come up with realistic prices for the old boats he currently runs.    

Edited October 30, 2019 by tring