Warning to parents of Teens

[RockHoundTX]

Contrary to what has been stated many times on this board, Teens (12-17) are NOT allowed to remain on-board on port days without a Parent or Legal Guardian. Here is the exact wording I received today from RCI Corporate Guest Services: "Children from ages 3 – 11 years old will need to be signed into Adventure Ocean if the parents or legal guardians will be off the ship at the port of call. On the other hand, minors from 12 – 17 years old may not be left onboard without a parent or legal guardian. This applies to all ships under the Royal Caribbean International lines sailing within the United States."

 

With over a dozen cruises under my belt with the family, I "thought" I knew the rules. Imagine the surprise when both my wife and myself were "red carded" coming back on the ship after an excursion and told "to immediately talk to Guest Services and Security". My Teen son had been verbally threatened by a Youth Program member and forced to sign himself into Adventure Ocean. Needless to say he was pretty mortified especially when his teen peers (whose parents were also not onboard) teased him for the rest of the cruise for "being put in jail" . Had he been acting up? Nope. Causing problems? Nope. Before going to Windjammer with the rest of the Teens, he merely walked from the Teen Room to Adventure Ocean to make sure that his little sister was OK and see if she needed anything (something he had done numerous times before since this was a B2B cruise and the 7th 7-day cruise on this particular ship). Since he was very well know by the Youth Staff, it seems one of the staff wanted to make a name for herself by "enforcing policy" as she understood it. Basically as the old saying goes, "No good deed goes unpunished" especially on RCI.  

 

I then spent the next 2 days on-board and then 2 weeks afterwards trying to figure out "why" this incident occurred and what rule/policy had been violated. About half the staff/officers I talked to onboard were just as surprised as I was relative to what happened. The comment "yeah. Teens on-board without parents is normal. No problem with that." or some variation was said multiple times. Some staff/customer service mentioned "policy" but not a single one could actually show me the policy. Ultimately, I was able to determine that it came down to the interpretation of the wording "appropriate supervision" in the Guest Conduct Policy. Being that my son was active in the Teen Club and we also had multiple adult friends onboard if something came up, I could not imagine that being anything other than "appropriate supervision".

 

So asking the explicit question "so, you are saying that a 17 year old college student is not allowed to be on-board if their parents or legal guardian are on a port excursion?" and the definitive answer is now "Yes. While we won't randomly go looking for kids to ask them if their parents are onboard, if we do find out they are unsupervised, they will be detained.".  As has already been discussed many times on this board (and confirmed on my calls), Legal Guardian does not mean grandparents, friends, etc. RCI basically has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy so while the chance of your Teen being "detained" is somewhat small, it can happen (as my wife and I unfortunately found out). 

 

If you are someone like us that try our best to follow the rules, then evidently RCI really does not want your business. I can't think of many activities LESS enjoyable than shopping with a disgruntled Teen who would rather be hanging out with his/her friends. The whole point as to why we have taken so many cruises is that we can all "do our own thing": my wife and I like to shop, my son likes to hang out with other Teens playing video games or dodge ball, and my daughter likes Adventure Ocean (but about to be a Teen as well). Now that it is no longer acceptable by RCI, I guess we will have to re-evaluate our vacation options. While I would have thought that RCI would truly want repeat Family Cruisers like us, guess that is not really the case.   

 

  

 

[Biker19]

31 minutes ago, RockHoundTX said:

Now that it is no longer acceptable by RCI, I guess we will have to re-evaluate our vacation options. 

It seems like nothing changed, it's just that you happened upon a policy zealot. If the kids know what to do and what not do, you could keep on cruising as in the past.

[CruiseBride926]

I really don’t see how anybody did anything wrong here? Your teen was following the rules as he knew them and the employee was doing the same. It’s unfortunate that he was basically punished for something he didn’t know he was doing but the employee was just doing as they were told. Not saying he would do anything to break the rules but what happens if he did and then they find out that an employee literally had just spoken with him face to face and then sent him on his way knowing that he was already going against company policy? An employee shouldn’t have to risk their livelihood because someone’s kid doesn’t want to shop.

[cb at sea]

Think of it this way...the next time you cruise, he'll probably be 18 and then it's not really a problem.  Your daughter will still be young enough to want to be in the club....  This sounds like a "one-off" thing...probably never happen again.

[BSocial]

Your son sounds like a nice, helpful big brother, checking on his sister while you were off the ship. 
 

I haven’t heard this (new?) policy before. In fact, I thought there were past threads on leaving teens on board, where CC members stated teens could remain onboard,  Which ship were you cruising on when this occurred ?

 

Maybe @GarlicBread will read this and chime in. They have worked in the kids area previously.

Edited October 24, 2019 by BSocial

[twangster]

You have to figure a policy like this was born from an event that likely involved attorneys and possibly a judge.  

 

I really doubt Royal is out to ruin vacations, something led to this policy.  Before jumping ship to another line you may want to inquire about policy on other cruise lines.  

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, RockHoundTX said:

If you are someone like us that try our best to follow the rules, then evidently RCI really does not want your business. I can't think of many activities LESS enjoyable than shopping with a disgruntled Teen who would rather be hanging out with his/her friends. The whole point as to why we have taken so many cruises is that we can all "do our own thing": my wife and I like to shop, my son likes to hang out with other Teens playing video games or dodge ball, and my daughter likes Adventure Ocean (but about to be a Teen as well). Now that it is no longer acceptable by RCI, I guess we will have to re-evaluate our vacation options. While I would have thought that RCI would truly want repeat Family Cruisers like us, guess that is not really the case.

 

Was it ever acceptable?  Is this a new rule?  Also, do you know if other cruise lines have a similar rule or not?

Edited October 24, 2019 by time4u2go

[RockHoundTX]

2 minutes ago, BSocial said:

Your son sounds like a nice, helpful big brother, checking on his sister while you were off the ship. 
 

I haven’t heard this (new?) policy before. In fact, I thought there were past threads on leaving teens on board, where CC members stated teens could remain onboard,  Which ship were you cruising on when this occurred ?

 

Yes, there have been several threads in the past where folks here specifically said it was perfectly acceptable. I had even talked to Security on a previous sailing where they said it was perfectly OK for my 10YO daughter to board a tender by her-self so she could return to the ship (she took the tender and then checked herself into Adventure Ocean).

 

Since everyone at RCI had a different opinion of what the "policy" actually was, I wanted to get a definitive answer. It seems everyone had a different definition of "appropriate supervision". I took this all the way up to the AVP of Guest Services at RCI and that is where the above quote came from. the incident happened on Liberty of the Seas but this applies to all US sailings.  

[GarlicBread]

15 minutes ago, BSocial said:

Your son sounds like a nice, helpful big brother, checking on his sister while you were off the ship. 
 

I haven’t heard this (new?) policy before. In fact, I thought there were past threads on leaving teens on board, where CC members stated teens could remain onboard,  Which ship were you cruising on when this occurred ?

 

Maybe @GarlicBread will read this and chime in. They have worked in the kids area previously.

 

I have to say, I really dont understand it! I feel some information is missing...

How old is the teen? And which ship? I missed it if they said...unless the teen is registered for AO, it's highly unlikely (I've never heard of an unregistered kid going into AO, apart from when the only guardian onboard is in the medical centre and has verbally agreed)  theyre going to take them in. For ships on the computer system you cant register anyone over 12 anyway without an override. 

Now, if the teen is 11/12 and registered for AO and also attending teens, and they decide to check into AO on a port day, then they cannot leave until someone over 18 picks them up. No child can leave AO when the ship is docked without anyone over 18 and on the pick up list coming to get them, even if parents have given permission for them to sign themselves out. 

 

Obviously the info here is one sided, apparently the teen did/said nothing, but they were the only one of a group put 'in jail', no crew go after someone because they want to, AO have enough to deal with on a port day, they don't chose to have any extra kids. 

 

As for the policy side, I'm not 100%, im not onbaord so can't comment on how it is right now. But, theres always comments/complaints when crew don't follow policies, and then when they do....

[jbethel11]

Do you think this issue directed more towards the daughter (who is in Adventure Ocean) as opposed to the son, who is 17?

[RockHoundTX]

11 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Was it ever acceptable?  Is this a new rule?  Also, do you know if other cruise lines have a similar rule or not?

Yes, this has been viewed as acceptable in the past. Not sure that this a "new rule" as much as a re-interpretation by RCI Legal of an old rule. In the past, the general consensus of' "appropriate supervision" meant either being active in Youth Program or having a grand-parent/relative/other responsible adult being on-board. This no longer is the case based on my discussions with RCI over the last 2 weeks. Now "appropriate supervision" is specific to Parent or Legal Guardian. 

 

As for other cruise-lines, I can only speak for Carnival where it is explicitly stated that it is acceptable: "Leaving Children On Board While in Port If parent/guardian decide to leave their children in the care of the Youth Staff while in port, they can! " 

[klfrodo]

It was an unwritten rule, someone complained, someone asked for clarification and interpretation, now it’s a written rule.

Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it.

This is pretty much how all policies come about.

Edited October 25, 2019 by klfrodo

[Domino D]

11 minutes ago, RockHoundTX said:

Yes, this has been viewed as acceptable in the past. Not sure that this a "new rule" as much as a re-interpretation by RCI Legal of an old rule. In the past, the general consensus of' "appropriate supervision" meant either being active in Youth Program or having a grand-parent/relative/other responsible adult being on-board.

I certainly understand your frustration.  To cruise (all lines in my experience) is to live in a world where rules seem to be randomly enforced.  I have also seen many teens younger than your son walking around unsupervised.  Your most recent post is the first time that you mentioned your daughters situation.  Did they tell you she could not be in the AO unless you were on the ship?  I ask only for clarity.  Your original post centered on your son NOT being signed into the program, so I am a little confused.  

 

I think, though, your problem is less with the policy itself and more with the lack of a coherent answer.  This is from the code of conduct

 

"Parental and Guardian Responsibility For purposes of this Guest Conduct Policy, a minor is defined as anyone under the age of 18. A young adult is defined as anyone ages 18, 19 or 20. Parents and guardians are responsible for the behavior and appropriate supervision of their accompanying minor(s) and young adult(s) throughout their vacation. This obligation applies during transfers to and from ships, inside terminals, while onboard, at our ports of call, during shore excursions and at our private destinations. This responsibility applies at all times, regardless of whether the parents and guardians are physically in the company of their minor(s) and young adult(s). Under no circumstances should the parent or guardian of a minor debark the ship without their accompanying minor(s) or without having made arrangements for the accompanying minor(s) appropriate supervision on the ship during their absence."

 

This showed up in a Google search.  It is not from the actual Royal Documentation. 

 

"On port days, Adventure Ocean is open for the entire duration your Royal Caribbean ship is in port.  Once the ship leaves port, it resumes the normal schedule described in sea days.

 

In addition, Royal Caribbean will open Adventure Ocean early enough for guests booked on Royal Caribbean shore excursions to drop children off.  Check with the staff on exact times."

 

This is why I would find it odd if they said your daughter was considered unsupervised.  Your son, unfortunately, was not. Is it possible that he went to check on his sister, someone said "What are you doing today?"  He answered "Hanging out and waiting for my parents to get back from port."  At that point it would be a problem.  I don;t think the language is vague or open to interpretation, in terms of your son.  If they said your daughter was unsupervised, that would be strange.  They would basically be admitting that their program is not "appropriate supervision".

 

Again I get your frustration, but I would have fired the security person who let your daughter board a tender and return to ship alone.  That is a violation of the policy without a doubt.  It is a huge problem when employees do not enforce rules, and your frustrations are justified in that regard. 

[MandyMooToo]

I cruised in 2013 with my 17 yr old and his 17 yr old friend (cruise was their graduation gift).  When in Cozumel my husband and I remained in port for another hour or so to finish up shopping and the boys wanted to get back on the ship.  I took them, in a taxi, back to the port and they boarded without an issue.  We got back on a bit later and never thought twice about it.  Now I would say they were strict about the under 18 yr curfew for sure but not about boarding without us.  And not judging here but I would not have allowed a 10 yr old to tender and board the ship alone.  But of course that is just me.

[neverbeenhere]

If this is the plastic straw that breaks... then it is. As stated, plenty of vacation options available. 
 

Others with underage children should appreciate the information. 
 

 

[RockHoundTX]

I mentioned my daughter strictly as an example. You would think that if they would let a 10YO go back onboard without parents (and we were a little shocked when RCI Security at the tender said it was perfectly OK) then you would think a Teen was also OK. On that particular trip she went to the Windjammer to get a bite to eat and then checked herself into AO with no problems. Being that this was already her 5th or 6th time on this particular ship (and we had numerous adult friends that we were sailing with that were already on the ship), I had absolutely no qualms about her going back alone. Once she checks herself into AO, myself or my wife has to check her out on port days (perfectly understandable). At other ports with a pier, their were numerous times where my son and daughter re-boarded together with no problems (usually with a friendly wave to us from the Security staff).

 

It was the selective enforcement of a policy that I truly thought we were in compliance with that irked me the most. My understanding (as well as many on this forum) was that grandparent/relative, adult friend, and/or Teen Club = "appropriate supervision". My guess is that there were somewhere in the neighborhood of about 30 Teens without parents at every port. Just in my son's group of friends, he did a quick poll afterwards and at least 6 of them were in the same situation (parents in port while they were on the ship).

 

As for the interaction, it was somewhat as you described. When he went to check on his sister he was asked if the parents were back on-board yet. Of course he said "No. Don't think so. Why?" (he had no reason to lie and fully thought he was following policy). At this point the AO Staff gave him the ultimatum of "you can either sign yourself into AO or I will call Guest Services and Security to deal with you." Somewhat in shock as to the situation and not wanting to deal with Security, he begrudgingly agreed. They then put all his information on a separate form for those in AO that did not have parental consent (there were 2 other smaller kids in AO whose parents were on an excursion but had not been officially signed into AO via the parental consent form). To answer someone else's question, Yes, it is possible for kids to be in AO that were never signed up for AO (but I am sure this is something that RCI truly likes to avoid given the liability but since they actually had a form for this, it must be common).

 

When I asked Guest Services why he was forced to sign himself into AO versus going back to the Teen Room to hang out, I was basically told "if he hurt himself, we could not provide medical care unless he signed himself in". I then asked "so if he trips over an 8YO in AO and breaks his arm, how are you going to provide medical treatment since there is no indemnification form for a Teen?", I just got a blank stare and a comment of "not sure. Had not thought of that.". I think that is truly the policy gap versus other cruise-lines (i.e., Carnival has indemnification forms for those up to 17 while on RCI it only goes up to 11).   

[klfrodo]

I hear you and understand your frustration. However, you wouldn’t accept this argument from your son. Dad, everyone else was doing it.

Okay, you didn’t know it was a violation of the Terms and Conditions as stated in the cruise contract. Now you do. No excuses.

[RockHoundTX]

2 hours ago, klfrodo said:

I hear you and understand your frustration. However, you wouldn’t accept this argument from your son. Dad, everyone else was doing it.

Okay, you didn’t know it was a violation of the Terms and Conditions as stated in the cruise contract. Now you do. No excuses.

Yes, you are correct: now I know. As does everyone else reading this post. While my posts probably came across more as a rant, it truly was meant to educate other parents with Teens (or kids that will soon become Teens) who assumed, as I did, that it was A-OK for a Teen to be onboard without a parent (but with other supervision). At the very least, it provides a concrete answer from RCI on a question that regularly pops up here on CC (especially given that the standard CC answer to the question no longer seems to be correct). I am sure that more than a few parents (or grand-parents) will find my post relevant to their situation and decision making process. On this last cruise I believe there were 143 Teens on the ship and guess there is double to triple that during the Summer or on holidays. As such, this does potentially effect a lot of cruisers.

 

Even though my kids are only 1 booked cruise short of Diamond on RCI at this point, I expect the next couple of cruises we book will be back with Carnival. Of course, what I would really like to see is RCI match Carnival's policy (I generally do like RCI ships more than Carnival). I would have no problem signing an indemnification form for my Teen just as I do for my pre-Teen. However, the only way that will happen is if RCI realizes they are losing business due to their current policy. I am sure they don't care about losing my business (or the small group of friends with Teens that we usually cruise with), but if they realized that this was materially hitting their bottom line, then they may look into it (but not holding my breath on that).    
    

Edited October 25, 2019 by RockHoundTX
grammer

[travelplus]

8 hours ago, klfrodo said:

It was an unwritten rule, someone complained, someone asked for clarification and interpretation, now it’s a written rule.

Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it.

This is pretty much how all policies come about.

Was it a Top Tier C&A member who complained?

[atgood]

RockHoundTX:  You gave lots of details on the incident of what caused you to get “red carded,” RCI’s written policy, and that you spent two days onboard and two weeks afterwards trying to figure out why it happened. 

 

My questions are,

1. What did Guest Services tell you about the incident?

2. Were there any immediate or rest of the cruise consequences enforced on you or your teen?

3. Did RCI mention what the consequences would be for another violation?

4. Did RCI make you sign any forms?

[orville99]

12 hours ago, RockHoundTX said:

 "Leaving Children On Board While in Port If parent/guardian decide to leave their children in the care of the Youth Staff while in port, they can! " 

While Carnival's language is a lot shorter, the proper interpretation of policy appears IMO to be identical to RCL's - if your child is in the care of Youth Staff, they're good to be onboard without you, if they're wandering free range around the ship, they're not.

[kidless]

I never like to hear just one side of the story. There usually are three; yours, theirs and the truth. It always strikes me how all parents on this site claim their children are innocent and well behaved yet while on ship we’ve encountered many children onboard unsupervised that aren’t behaving. That being said I’m shocked any parent would allow their 10 year old daughter to board alone while they stayed in port in a foreign country! She should have not been allowed to board by security and kudos to the staff member who followed the rules for your child’s safety! #JMHO

[Joseph2017China]

Sorry but this is a good policy.  I have never left my kids alone on their own in a foreign country while not under my watchful eye.  So much can go wrong and no matter how well behaved, they are, they are still legally a minor.  Think of this, the ship's crew, (not including the kid's club staff) are not your teen's babysitter, but once you leave the ship, and they are unsupervised they become the responsibility of the ship, and if you don't show up back on board, than what?  What you hear on these boards are always, I have done it many times, so it is ok......just like so many other topics. I know I'm in the minority, but my son won't leave his daughter out of sight either.....so it brushed off of me.

[Arzeena]

I agree with the above two posts. Royal did nothing wrong here. They protected your kid.

Enjoy Carnival!

Edited October 25, 2019 by Arzeena

[kidless]

You just never know what can https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2016/04/27/stranded-mom-sobs-as-cruise-ship-sails-away-with-her-kids/amp/