Dui but round trip from Seattle?

[Rachel.waller]

I know this lovely question has been asked a bunch, but I’ve not found any recent responses or experiences... Canada denies entry if there is a past DUI or any charge on your record- but will Princess cruise line deny boarding the ship from Seattle if you do not get off the ship in Canada? Anyone have any experiences to offer? My friends DUI is 11 years ago if that matters. Thanks 🙂

[Shmoo here]

15 minutes ago, Rachel.waller said:

I know this lovely question has been asked a bunch, but I’ve not found any recent responses or experiences... Canada denies entry if there is a past DUI or any charge on your record- but will Princess cruise line deny boarding the ship from Seattle if you do not get off the ship in Canada? Anyone have any experiences to offer? My friends DUI is 11 years ago if that matters. Thanks 🙂

Really a question to be directed to those who are going to make the call.  Like Princess, or Canadian Immigration.

 

IMO, just saying "I'm not getting off the ship" is not going to do it.

[Rachel.waller]

22 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

Really a question to be directed to those who are going to make the call.  Like Princess, or Canadian Immigration.

 

IMO, just saying "I'm not getting off the ship" is not going to do it.

Yes, saying you won’t get off the ship isn’t a way to solve things- but the majority of the answers I’ve seen in the past said that the only time they were stopped or questioned was when getting off the ship in the Canadian port hence why I put that. As long as Seattle allows embarkation- there would be no issues with having a DUI as long as you do not get off the ship at the Canadian port. So the question was whether or not Seattle will have record of the DUI and decline the passenger boarding. 

 

Anyways, Thanks for your input even though it didn’t actually pertain to the post requesting personal info regarding the matter/ person experience. 
 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, Rachel.waller said:

 As long as Seattle allows embarkation- there would be no issues with having a DUI as long as you do not get off the ship at the Canadian port. So the question was whether or not Seattle will have record of the DUI and decline the passenger boarding. 

 

First, the facts:

#1 Whether or not you leave the ship when it is anchored/docked at a Canadian port, you have entered Canada and are subject to its laws.

#2 The CBSA has a copy of the passenger manifest, which has already been reviewed by the US CBP with notations related to a criminal records check.

#3 At a minimum, the CBSA will inform the ship regarding those passengers on the manifest who may not go ashore at a Canadian port because of crimes like DUI.

#4 Depending on a variety of factors, there are also instances when the CBSA will board the ship and remove a passenger. 

 

So, yes, US CBP at Seattle's port is well aware of every passenger's NCIC record and may detain/arrest folks with "issues" like outstanding warrants or court dispositions barring them from leaving the US. And that same NCIC information will also be provided to CBSA who will decide how best to deal with folks who have broken (or are about to break) Canada's laws.

 

With a DUI conviction that is more than 10 years old, the question you should be asking is how best to contact CBSA and request permission to enter Canada. In that way, whether one needs to stay on the ship may become a non-issue.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Flatbush Flyer

[LHT28]

found this on Carnival site  so maybe other lines have the same info

https://help.carnival.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1403/~/entry-into-canada---guests-with-criminal-records

[1025cruise]

Technically, yes since you will be entering Canada, whether or not you plan to get off, you can be denied boarding if you are inadmissible to  Canada. 

 

Realistically, probably won't be an issue. You might have to waste some time with a Canadian immigration officer, basically to be told don't get off, or nothing will happen.

Edited November 2, 2019 by 1025cruise

[martincath]

11 years ago no longer cuts it - DUIs became Serious Crimes in Canada almost a year ago, meaning they are no longer eligible for Deemed Rehabilitation exemptions regardless of how old. This season was the first time that folks could be cruising RT with a Canadian PVSA-compliance stop after the change in the law, but despite a handful of posts here & there I have yet to hear anyone reporting back from personal experience as to how the change impacted them.

 

Any posts from folks reporting in prior years that they had to go speak to CBSA and were told not to get off the ship are now utterly meaningless, unless the crime they were convicted of were also Serious Crimes as opposed to Misdemeanors/less crimes under Canadian law. Maybe you'll get lucky, and someone will actually post from this summer's cruise season, but even if they do a) do you want to believe a rando on the internet? b) even if they seem trustworthy,  unless their circumstances are *exactly* the same as your friend, and the same officers do the processing, and are in the same mood as they were for that other person, the outcome won't necessarily be the same...

 

In short OP - your friend needs to file the paperwork to get that DUI record 'pardoned' or else risks being denied entry to Canada for the rest of his/her life. That fee is also now more expensive, as Serious Crimes require a $1000 payment for processing instead of $200 (CAD, so ~25% discount at the moment). Given this season is all-but-over I'm guessing your cruise is in 2020, so there is hopefully time for the paperwork to be filed.

 

This link goes direct to the Canadian government page covering criminal rehabilitation, with links to all the relevant forms and explanations of how to complete them.

 

[taglovestocruise]

20 hours ago, Rachel.waller said:

I know this lovely question has been asked a bunch, but I’ve not found any recent responses or experiences... Canada denies entry if there is a past DUI or any charge on your record- but will Princess cruise line deny boarding the ship from Seattle if you do not get off the ship in Canada? Anyone have any experiences to offer? My friends DUI is 11 years ago if that matters. Thanks 🙂

Could be a surprise sooner then you think.  I have a relative and very good friend that was flying from Lax to Vancouver for a cruise.  He was denied boarding the plane at LAX.  No refund for cruise or airfare even though he had travel insurance. He was traveling with his girlfriend and a small group, the girlfriend went on without him.  Insurance company claimed he was attempting a criminal act.  This was in 2009 and it was a 20 year old DUI in California. Things may or may not have changed over the last 10 years.  I know Seattle is not in Canada but if Canada is that strict it would be reasonable to assume Princess would abide with Canadian law. 

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, taglovestocruise said:

Could be a surprise sooner then you think.  I have a relative and very good friend that was flying from Lax to Vancouver for a cruise.  He was denied boarding the plane at LAX.  No refund for cruise or airfare even though he had travel insurance. He was traveling with his girlfriend and a small group, the girlfriend went on without him.  Insurance company claimed he was attempting a criminal act.  This was in 2009 and it was a 20 year old DUI in California. Things may or may not have changed over the last 10 years.  I know Seattle is not in Canada but if Canada is that strict it would be reasonable to assume Princess would abide with Canadian law. 

I don't think any travel insurance covers being refused boarding in this situation 

[1025cruise]

15 hours ago, taglovestocruise said:

Could be a surprise sooner then you think.  I have a relative and very good friend that was flying from Lax to Vancouver for a cruise.  He was denied boarding the plane at LAX.  No refund for cruise or airfare even though he had travel insurance. He was traveling with his girlfriend and a small group, the girlfriend went on without him.  Insurance company claimed he was attempting a criminal act.  This was in 2009 and it was a 20 year old DUI in California. Things may or may not have changed over the last 10 years.  I know Seattle is not in Canada but if Canada is that strict it would be reasonable to assume Princess would abide with Canadian law. 

Sounds right. He was inadmissible to Canada so was denied getting on the plane to Canada. Had the airline allowed him to fly, they would have been on the hook to fly him back to LA.

 

With a round trip from Seattle, it's a 50/50 as to whether or not the information is known at the time of boarding whether or not someone will be inadmissible to Canada. As I previously stated, assuming they get on board, I don't expect Canadian immigration to haul him off, but just tell him not to leave the ship. It's a different scenario going from Vancouver where you have to enter Canada to get to the ship. 

[Laurab23]

I had a DUI over 35 years ago and at some point it must clear off your record. Did a cruise to Canada 3 years ago and never thought about it and I never had an issue.

 

Laura

[martincath]

Nothing 'clears off your record' @Laurab23 - you have to file the paperwork and pay to have it removed. Even things you were never convicted of, even stuff you did as a Minor, all still lurk around for your entire life unless expunged and folks with the appropriate security clearance get to see them.

 

Example: I used to run background checks for one of my volunteer gigs, which included what we in Canada call 'Vulnerable Sector' clients, therefore even juvenile records came back for my perusal - had one potential 40-something volunteer flagged with a 'receiving stolen property' charge from when he was a kid. He claimed that he didn't even know it had been filed, a cop just came to his house and asked who he bought his bike from (a classmate at school), then told him it had been stolen, wrote his name down in his notebook and took the bike away and he never heard anything else about it for over 30 years!!! He had already had several background checks run for work over the years, never flagged - but this was his first Vulnerable Sector check. The info was always there - it just wasn't revealed to his past employers.

 

Two likely possibilities - a) your offence was never actually entered onto NCIC so didn't show up, or b) 3 years ago a DUI was still a 'regular' crime, not 'serious', in Canada which meant you were eligible for being Deemed Rehabilitated given how long ago it occurred (minimum 5 years after you finish the sentence, whether it's education/probation/fine/prison, you become eligible to request entry to Canada without special paperwork and a 10+ years old offence with a clean nose since is usually treated as "Assume you are fine unless there's some other reason to hassle you.")

 

As of Dec 2018 though, DUIs have a maximum sentence of 10+ years making them automatically Serious. If you'd really like to help OP out, you could try crossing the Canadian border again now and see what happens... 😉

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by martincath

[Husky61]

For those who have never worked with NCIC and not familiar with the process, not all misdemeanors are actually entered into NCIC, and sometimes felonies are not entered.  Only serious misdemeanors are ever entered, and not all of them are entered.  It is the responsibility of the originating agency to enter arrest info into NCIC.  The same is true of warrants.  The only time warrens are entered into NCIC is if the arresting agency is willing to extradite.

 

Anyone can request a copy of their NCIC record and determine if any arrests are entered. How do I know this?  I was in LE for 31 years in Los Angeles and at one time in charge of records and communicated with NCIC.

[Flatbush Flyer]

22 minutes ago, Husky61 said:

For those who have never worked with NCIC and not familiar with the process, not all misdemeanors are actually entered into NCIC, and sometimes felonies are not entered.  Only serious misdemeanors are ever entered, and not all of them are entered.  It is the responsibility of the originating agency to enter arrest info into NCIC.  The same is true of warrants.  The only time warrens are entered into NCIC is if the arresting agency is willing to extradite.

 

Anyone can request a copy of their NCIC record and determine if any arrests are entered. How do I know this?  I was in LE for 31 years in Los Angeles and at one time in charge of records and communicated with NCIC.

And then there's the other side of the issue where, although an arrest may have been correctly entered into NCIC years ago, it's court disposition may not have been entered (thus making the arrest appear to be still unresolved). Perhaps even worse, if the case was dismissed or had finding of "not guilty" and it was not entered in NCIC (thus nullifying that arrest) and you live in a county or state that destroys those dismissed/not guilty (and the associated arrest) records after x? years, try to get that resolved (e.g., should you want to get  something like a Global Entry card). It is literally, the premier definition of "catch-22."

 

BTW, NCIC's records are notorious for the degree of inaccuracy due to missing entries by the arresting agency and disposing court. And it is those agencies/courts, via the official criminal records keeper in the state where it happened, who have to order removal of erroneous or incomplete NCIC info. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Flatbush Flyer

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 records after x? years, try to get that resolved (e.g., should you want to get  something like a Global Entry card). It is literally, the premier definition of "catch-22."

 

BTW, NCIC's records are notorious for the degree of inaccuracy due to missing entries by the arresting agency and disposing court. And it is those agencies/courts, via the official criminal records keeper in the state where it happened, who have to order removal of erroneous or incomplete NCIC info. 

 

Well, that's weird.  🤔

[Flatbush Flyer]

9 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Well, that's weird.  🤔

Let's try it without "weird" cross-out?

 

And then there's the other side of the issue where, although an arrest may have been correctly entered into NCIC years ago, it's court disposition may not have been entered (thus making the arrest appear to be still unresolved). Perhaps even worse, if the case was dismissed or had finding of "not guilty" and it was not entered in NCIC (thus nullifying that arrest) and you live in a county or state that destroys those dismissed/not guilty (and the associated arrest) records after x? years, try to get that resolved (e.g., should you want to get  something like a Global Entry card). It is literally, the premier definition of "catch-22."

 

BTW, NCIC's records are notorious for the degree of inaccuracy due to missing entries by the arresting agency and disposing court. And it is those agencies/courts, via the official criminal records keeper in the state where it happened, who have to order removal of erroneous or incomplete NCIC info. 

 

[Husky61]

55 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Let's try it without "weird" cross-out?

 

And then there's the other side of the issue where, although an arrest may have been correctly entered into NCIC years ago, it's court disposition may not have been entered (thus making the arrest appear to be still unresolved). Perhaps even worse, if the case was dismissed or had finding of "not guilty" and it was not entered in NCIC (thus nullifying that arrest) and you live in a county or state that destroys those dismissed/not guilty (and the associated arrest) records after x? years, try to get that resolved (e.g., should you want to get  something like a Global Entry card). It is literally, the premier definition of "catch-22."

 

BTW, NCIC's records are notorious for the degree of inaccuracy due to missing entries by the arresting agency and disposing court. And it is those agencies/courts, via the official criminal records keeper in the state where it happened, who have to order removal of erroneous or incomplete NCIC info. 

 

What you are missing is that an arrest in itself is not a conviction or verdict of guilty.  An arrest without a disposition is just that, no disposition. If the court failed to enter a disposition, the arrest is not available to be used against someone as a prior offense.

 

Not sure what your experience is with NCIC, but a lack of a disposition entry does not nullify the arrest. The arrest stands, and without any disposition, it remains just an arrest without a conviction.

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 minutes ago, Husky61 said:

What you are missing is that an arrest in itself is not a conviction or verdict of guilty.  An arrest without a disposition is just that, no disposition. If the court failed to enter a disposition, the arrest is not available to be used against someone as a prior offense.

 

Not sure what your experience is with NCIC, but a lack of a disposition entry does not nullify the arrest. The arrest stands, and without any disposition, it remains just an arrest without a conviction.

 I'm pretty sure that we actually agree that what appears to be an unresolved case will not nullify an NCIC record of arrest. 

However, since we're talking about international travel, recognize that, in general, an unresolved arrest (i.e., no NCIC record of disposition - whether still an active case or an error due to someone not doing their job when the case was resolved) is a red flag for CBP, at least as regards rubber stamping a "global entry" application. And, with everything subject to the discretion of CBP, a record of an arrest without disposition (erroneous or not) will usually result in initial denial of "Global Entry."

 

That said, you are correct that the court disposition may not nullify the arrest. However, that is wholly dependent upon the specific laws/regulations of the county/state in which the alleged offense occurred and was adjudicated. 

Theoretically, in a county/state (e.g., every county in Connecticut and certain California counties [amongst a whole lot of other jurisdictions nationwide]) where criminal records (including the arrest) related to dismissed charges or a finding of "not guilty" are eventually destroyed (and someone in the official State criminal records office follows through with ordering their removal from NCIC), a bona fide request for one's personal NCIC record (based on an official live fingerprint scan) will return a report of no arrest or disposition for the particular act in question.

[Husky61]

Sounds like you have no actual experience with NCIC and arrests and convictions, but are posting what you read on the internet.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Husky61 said:

Sounds like you have no actual experience with NCIC and arrests and convictions, but are posting what you read on the internet.

As regards this subject, all one can expect the internet to do is to point you in a direction which, sadly, may often be the wrong one. 

 

Sounds like it may be YOU who (despite a background in law enforcement - BTW, thank you for your service!) does not have first hand experience with the finer points of actually jumping through all the hoops (e.g., multiple conversations/correspondences with judges/police chiefs and commissioners/records officials/legislators/et al. government agencies/officials) necessary to fix decades old erroneous NCIC data based on a failure of a jurisdiction to modify records changes in a timely fashion - if at all). 

 

Recording an arrest and getting it removed (from local, state and NCIC data bases) when it was a mistake to begin with are VASTLY different things. Have YOU had THAT experience?