Direct LAX to Barcelona

[travel_wendi]

Planning a Mediterranean cruise on Royal Caribbean in September 2020. The only direct flight I can find from LAX to Barcelona is with Norwegian, has anyone flown Norwegian? Any experiences you can share for us booking a flight on this itinerary? We would prefer and economy plus/business class?

[hallasm]

When the exact date is not known it is not possible to say if there can be other direct options than Norwegian, but as I see it there are no other direct services from LAX to BCN

Norwegian is currently having major financial problems and it may be a matter of still being in the air until September 2020 - personally I want to ensure that my payment is not lost if they go bankrupt.  
They are also known to change routes as well as major problems with regularity - I would suggest flying into BCN at least two days prior to your cruise.

 

Norwegian is offering premium class - it is not about excess luxury, but about making a long flight much more comfortable. It’s a good offering. Norwegian is a low-cost airline and the cost of premium tickets, when compared to first and business class on other airlines, definitely reflects that. 

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by hallasm

[waterbug123]

Personally, I'd be hesitant to book Norwegian this far out, considering their financial situation.  Adding just a single connection would likely open up a lot of other possibilities, and break up what would otherwise be an extremely long flight.

[Ashland]

I just recently (May) did a connection with DL round trip LAX-BCN with a connection both times in JFK.

I agree to avoid Norwegian right now....but it's you choice.

[travel_wendi]

Thank you! Yes we decided against Norwegian. Are going with United/Lufthansa! 

[hallasm]

6 hours ago, travel_wendi said:

Thank you! Yes we decided against Norwegian. Are going with United/Lufthansa!

Your luggage will be checked through to VCE - immigration in FRA while customs in VCE. In case of delay of transatlantic flight you'll be rebooked to next available VCE flight.

[Gardyloo]

7 hours ago, hallasm said:

Your luggage will be checked through to VCE - immigration in FRA while customs in VCE. In case of delay of transatlantic flight you'll be rebooked to next available VCE flight.

Hopefully not, as they're going to Barcelona.

[hallasm]

6 minutes ago, Gardyloo said:

Hopefully not, as they're going to Barcelona

Thank you. My mistanke - did check on VCE flights -  LH is usually quite reliable and they will make sure luggage is ending up in BCN - and custom clearance in BCN!

[SelectSys]

Why book now for a September 2020 flight?  Based on what I have read, the optimal time to buy a ticket is much closer to your true departure date.  Here is one such report that describes general timing information:

 

https://www.tripsavvy.com/when-to-buy-an-international-flight-4063912

 

Also, people on this site have been casting shade on Norwegian's transatlantic service for years.  Their premium offering is really good and is sometimes competitive with legacy airline economy fare:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesasquith/2019/10/15/low-cost-airline-business-class-seatswhich-ones-are-worth-it/#583139ff3a63

 

" Norwegian’s 787s versus economy class on other airlines plying the Atlantic routes, value for money is exceptional here."

 

Plus the financial picture is better than most people think.  The have made another capital raise as well as selling aircraft to go through the winter.  The expansion plans have been pulled back and Q3 2019 was the most profitable quarter ever.

 

https://ukaviation.news/norwegian-air-secures-funding-through-2020-and-beyond/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2019/10/26/norwegian-fights-back-with-record-quarterly-profit/#65b923ba212f

 

For now, I will continue to enjoy Norwegian's service from LAX and recommend it as a great option for those who want value and aren't tied into a legacy airline frequent flier program or don't need/can't pay for first or business class tickets. 

 

 

[travel_wendi]

Actually in my experience with flights, it’s all over the board. I’ve booked early and late and have gotten great deals. I ended up scoring a sweet flight with great times and short layover. United and Lufthansa in September, LAX to BCN. Premium economy for less than $900! Per person. You just never know!

[CruiserBruce]

35 minutes ago, travel_wendi said:

 

And how short is your layover? FRA is a big, busy airport, and arriving at the main crunch time (in the morning)for international flights frequently means planes get parked at a "stand", not a gate, and the pax get bused in. Layovers of less than 90 minutes are not recommended.

[travel_wendi]

4 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

And how short is your layover? FRA is a big, busy airport, and arriving at the main crunch time (in the morning)for international flights frequently means planes get parked at a "stand", not a gate, and the pax get bused in. Layovers of less than 90 minutes are not recommended.

We leave at 5:30pm from lax and land in Munich for about 1 hr 45mins. Then onto Barcelona to one at 5:45 pm. Then on the way back we fly out of Barcelona around 11:15 AM and have a

2 hour-ish layover in Newark. Then landing in LAX at 6:20 in the evening. Not too bad! Three of the four legs are premium economy, 2 seat  rows instead of 3. After I bought the tickets, I checked the fares and they went up significantly. Of course I know they will add flights and things will change over the next year but I feel pretty good about the flights I got for the price! Super excited about the trip, too bad it’s so far away!

[CruiserBruce]

OK, was under the impression you were going into FRA. MUC is great...extremely user friendly airport. Your layovers are solid. Have a great time!

[waterbug123]

16 hours ago, SelectSys said:

Why book now for a September 2020 flight?  Based on what I have read, the optimal time to buy a ticket is much closer to your true departure date.  Here is one such report that describes general timing information:

 

https://www.tripsavvy.com/when-to-buy-an-international-flight-4063912

 

The article is actually pretty useless for a couple of reasons.  First, it jumps around as to the REASON it says buying at this time or that is best.  The mention price, seating, etc. yet there is no one thing that makes a particular ticket "best."  One person might care about nothing but price, someone cares about nothing but their seat and so forth.  So what actually makes a day the "best" for buying a ticket?

But the biggest thing is that like many prior articles before it, it refers to "average"  best time to buy based on price.  Statistically speaking, it could average out to where it says the best time to buy a ticket to X is 89 days out, yet for your flight on your travel day, day #Tminus89 could actually an extremely high price; that's how averages can work sometimes.  What's the old adage?  Something about the statistician who drowned in a river that had an average depth of 6 inches?

[FlyerTalker]

19 hours ago, SelectSys said:

Why book now for a September 2020 flight?  Based on what I have read, the optimal time to buy a ticket is much closer to your true departure date.  Here is one such report that describes general timing information:

 

https://www.tripsavvy.com/when-to-buy-an-international-flight-4063912

 

There are two ways for approaching the challenge of getting good pricing for your air tickets.

 

The first is to do the hard work of research, tracking and more research.  Of exploring options and developing strategies and objectives.

 

The second is to just follow the advice of these kinds of articles and just mark off a date on your calendar. 

 

Seems the latter is for the folks looking for the quick, easy and simplistic solution, and who are not interested in the actual work in getting optimum air travel.  (And it matches with the folks looking for the "secret magic website" where the cheap prices can always be found)

[SelectSys]

On 11/14/2019 at 3:09 AM, waterbug123 said:

 

The article is actually pretty useless for a couple of reasons.  First, it jumps around as to the REASON it says buying at this time or that is best.  The mention price, seating, etc. yet there is no one thing that makes a particular ticket "best."  One person might care about nothing but price, someone cares about nothing but their seat and so forth.  So what actually makes a day the "best" for buying a ticket?

But the biggest thing is that like many prior articles before it, it refers to "average"  best time to buy based on price.  Statistically speaking, it could average out to where it says the best time to buy a ticket to X is 89 days out, yet for your flight on your travel day, day #Tminus89 could actually an extremely high price; that's how averages can work sometimes.  What's the old adage?  Something about the statistician who drowned in a river that had an average depth of 6 inches?

 

Actually, the article is quite useful.  It gives someone a starting point to think of at least one factor when booking fares.  Too many take on this site take their anecdotal experience and project it without providing any supplemental information.  You'll see in the post I made above included multiple links to additional information to help others understand more why people should consider booking on Norwegian.

 

Be cautious regarding limitations the limitations of statistics without thinking of their benefits as well.  To ignore statistical models because they aren't prefect reminds me of the old idiom which says, "don't throw the baby out with the bath water!"   Many industries including the airline industry are large users of statistics and wouldn't think of acting on gut alone.

 

On 11/14/2019 at 6:20 AM, FlyerTalker said:

 

There are two ways for approaching the challenge of getting good pricing for your air tickets.

 

The first is to do the hard work of research, tracking and more research.  Of exploring options and developing strategies and objectives.

 

The second is to just follow the advice of these kinds of articles and just mark off a date on your calendar. 

 

Seems the latter is for the folks looking for the quick, easy and simplistic solution, and who are not interested in the actual work in getting optimum air travel.  (And it matches with the folks looking for the "secret magic website" where the cheap prices can always be found)

 

It was not my suggestion to make a definitive rule.  Again, it should be obvious in my comments that I do research and suggest others do likewise.  While most on this site have disparaged Norwegian for the last couple of years with talk of doom, I did  my homework and have been able to purchase multiple tickets for a better product at a much lower price than available from legacy carriers for transatlantic service.   I have more tickets booked on Norwegian for 2020.

 

As a general comment, what I find most interesting regarding doing "your homework" is found in my own evolution of being an airline passenger.  Were once I has captive to the OneWorld alliance with lifetime elite status,  I now have specific airlines for specific markets.   None of these airlines are a legacy big 3 carrier in the US nor their European partners.  Even Qantas isn't as high on my list as it once was.   

[scottbee]

On 11/10/2019 at 7:40 AM, hallasm said:

Thank you. My mistanke - did check on VCE flights -  LH is usually quite reliable and they will make sure luggage is ending up in BCN - and custom clearance in BCN!

 

LH are awful with luggage.  Did a two week transatlantic with just our carryons.  

 

Took 8 months including involving the government watchdog to get compensation from LH pursuant to the Montreal Convention on international luggage (I'm an expert now).  LH wouldn't answer phones, letters, registered letters, etc etc. They've been sanctioned by the US as well for failing to provide full compensation on lost luggage (claiming they only have to pay 1/2).

 

I wonder how bad it would have been on a coach ticket, this was in Biz too....

 

[waterbug123]

On 11/18/2019 at 5:43 PM, SelectSys said:

 

Actually, the article is quite useful.

 

No, it really isn't.  Any article that says "on average the best (i.e. cheapest) time to purchase tickets is X days pre flight" is useless.  It is statistically possible for the average "best" time to be, say, 60 days pre-flight and because it's an average, there could actually be NO flight for which exactly 60 days out is the best day to purchase.  Those types of statements just make people potentially pass up good fares that might exist earlier on, because they've been told to wait until X days out to get the best fare.

[SelectSys]

On 11/19/2019 at 6:03 PM, waterbug123 said:

 

No, it really isn't.  Any article that says "on average the best (i.e. cheapest) time to purchase tickets is X days pre flight" is useless.  It is statistically possible for the average "best" time to be, say, 60 days pre-flight and because it's an average, there could actually be NO flight for which exactly 60 days out is the best day to purchase.  Those types of statements just make people potentially pass up good fares that might exist earlier on, because they've been told to wait until X days out to get the best fare.

 

I beg once again to disagree with you.  How would these prospective passengers pick this "optimal" fare?  Perhaps throwing darts against a calendar might work.  Consulting the oracles on websites occasionally?  I just don't believe that most people on this site could pick this "optimal" fare consistently over time (or even once) and would be worse off then following a few "rules of thumb" based on real data such as I proposed.   

 

For probability distributions, such as we have been discussing, there is a second concept know as the variance.  if you familiar with this concept, you'll know that rather than looking at a specific date, you really should be looking at a range of dates around the mean for a good fare.   Tools such as Google flights and others can give this kind of information to help pick the appropriate time for picking a fare.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

52 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

Tools such as Google flights and others can give this kind of information to help pick the appropriate time for picking a fare.

 

So, which is it?  Actually research the data or default to those simplistic "rules" put forward in that article.

 

Can't have it both way, yet you argue for both.

[SelectSys]

15 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

So, which is it?  Actually research the data or default to those simplistic "rules" put forward in that article.

 

Can't have it both way, yet you argue for both.

 

 

The article suggest one rule.  I added another simple rule - check Google around a preferred buying time to see which date provides the best fare.  No complicated data analysis/research in this.  This is just another way of being flexible were possible on travel date.  I think we can all agree that being flexible helps get a better fare.

 

[waterbug123]

On 11/21/2019 at 7:42 PM, SelectSys said:

 

I beg once again to disagree with you.  How would these prospective passengers pick this "optimal" fare?  Perhaps throwing darts against a calendar might work.  Consulting the oracles on websites occasionally?  I just don't believe that most people on this site could pick this "optimal" fare consistently over time (or even once) and would be worse off then following a few "rules of thumb" based on real data such as I proposed.   

 

For probability distributions, such as we have been discussing, there is a second concept know as the variance.  if you familiar with this concept, you'll know that rather than looking at a specific date, you really should be looking at a range of dates around the mean for a good fare.   Tools such as Google flights and others can give this kind of information to help pick the appropriate time for picking a fare.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't get it.  No one is saying that if you ignore the article, you can do your own research and always pick the best airfare.  But following the "rules" of articles like this, are roughly the same as throwing darts.  The whole "on average" thing is what throws everything off.  There is so much variance that you can't rely on whatever time frame "they" say is best.  These articles just give people a false sense things, and give weight to unproven urban legends.   Keep in mind that if there was a magic formula of "X days out is the cheapest time to buy," even if X was a range of days, then demand would jump dramatically during that period.  Airlines would see that and the rules of supply and demand would enter the fray, with the price actually going higher during that time frame.

[SelectSys]

11 hours ago, waterbug123 said:

 

You don't get it.  No one is saying that if you ignore the article, you can do your own research and always pick the best airfare.  But following the "rules" of articles like this, are roughly the same as throwing darts.  The whole "on average" thing is what throws everything off.  There is so much variance that you can't rely on whatever time frame "they" say is best.  These articles just give people a false sense things, and give weight to unproven urban legends.   Keep in mind that if there was a magic formula of "X days out is the cheapest time to buy," even if X was a range of days, then demand would jump dramatically during that period.  Airlines would see that and the rules of supply and demand would enter the fray, with the price actually going higher during that time frame.

 

Again I beg to differ.  I think these people that wrote this article did do actually crunch the data and have a suggestion as to the time when airfares are reasonable.   I think the market is so deep that you don't see any influence from a single article and most people simply just book when their plans are firm and believe that booking early is cheaper than booking late. 

 

We can agree to disagree and, if you like, why don't you list some of your rules for determining when to buy a ticket in a manner consumable by others on the board other than to simply suggest, "doing research."

 

 

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

Perhaps HL Mencken put it best:  "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

 

There is no substitute for research, no shortcut "magic date" (or dates), no secret website,  no special formula and no easy method.  And every such item that represents itself as such is nothing more than a simplistic crutch to satisfy the yearning of those who don't want to invest their time and effort but rather want the automatic ease and simplicity of instant gratification.

 

 

[waterbug123]

16 hours ago, SelectSys said:

We can agree to disagree and, if you like, why don't you list some of your rules for determining when to buy a ticket in a manner consumable by others on the board other than to simply suggest, "doing research."

 

 

My rules?  I've posted a version of this numerous times before, but here goes; it's a flow chart of sorts to answer the question, "Should I buy now?"

1.  Am I willing and able to pay the price currently offered?

    -If the answer is no, I have no choice but to wait for a price drop, and possibly cancel my plans if that doesn't happen.

   -If the answer is yes, ask myself question #2

2. Am I willing and able to pay a higher price if I wait for a price drop and the price goes up instead of down?

   -If the answer is yes, I can take a gamble and wait, and hope for a price drop that may or may not come.

  -If the answer is no, buy now and don't look back.  Or look back if my ticket fare class includes the ability to cancel/change, but be aware of the change fees that will be assessed if the price does drop eventually.

 

Beyond that, start looking early and look often.  It helps to travel enough to have an idea of what a typical price range is for a. my routing at b. the time of year I'm traveling on c. my preferred airline(s).    Flyertalker really says it best though below.

 

Oh, and I'd bet the bank that most authors of such articles are not themselves doing any realistic amount of research; they are simply repeating other vague sources that claim "x days out is when you get the best price" or are researching such a miniscule % of flights that the data is virtually meaningless. 

 

 

14 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Perhaps HL Mencken put it best:  "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

 

There is no substitute for research, no shortcut "magic date" (or dates), no secret website,  no special formula and no easy method.  And every such item that represents itself as such is nothing more than a simplistic crutch to satisfy the yearning of those who don't want to invest their time and effort but rather want the automatic ease and simplicity of instant gratification.

 

Bingo!  There is no magic formula.  There is no secret website.  Airline pricing algorithms are far more complicated than what any human could ever hope to outguess.