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Victoria BC, Butchart Gardens Tour


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This will be our first cruise on Holland, cruising San Diego to Vancouver May 2020. We will be a family reunion group of 20. We don't arrive in port until 2pm.Does anyone have experience/suggestions for the Butchart Gardens tour ? Any suggestions as far as using a private tour company vs cruise line tour? Is Butchart Gardens our best use of time for that very short stay in Victoria?

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27 minutes ago, RaeAnneF said:

Does anyone have experience/suggestions for the Butchart Gardens tour ? Any suggestions as far as using a private tour company vs cruise line tour?

Its about a 25-30 min drive from what I remember. Also worth keeping in mind that in May is closes at 5pm. If the ship docks at 2pm and you are off of it by 2:20-2:30 that doesn't have you to the front entrance until at least 3 if everything goes smoothly and most likely more like 3:30. Doesn't leave a whole lot of time. I have heard that some tours can get extended hours so it might be one of the times that a cruise ship excursion is a decent value but thats something you'd have to check with the cruise line.

 

29 minutes ago, RaeAnneF said:

Is Butchart Gardens our best use of time for that very short stay in Victoria?

Personally if it were just for an hour of looking around it wouldn't be worth it to me (plus the hour round trip to get there). If a tour or excursion got you some extended time after hours then maybe. If it closes at 5 I would most likely find other things to do in town like the Museum, tea or drinks at the Empress, etc. 

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Firstly, and important given your dates, is that the 'closing' time listed on the website is actually when they shut the gates to new entries - not when they kick you out! That's an hour after the gates close, so arriving by 3pm gives you a full three hours on site. Personally I've rarely spent less than that - but then I'm a Botanist so I'm one of those folks who reads all the little signs about the plants rather than just taking in the 'big picture', snapping some pics and moving on. Most folks seem to feel that somewhere in the 2-3 hour bracket on site lets you do the gardens justice.

 

With your group size, booking a private tour would undoubtedly save you money on transportation - but not tickets as Butchart only deems a 25+ pax worthy of those! Ditto no Senior discounts - as seniors are their bread & butter customer. But if you booked a bigger bus locally and offered up extra seats to your fellow cruisers on your Roll Call...

 

Anyhoo - whether it's the BEST option is not something I can answer for you. Are they good? Absolutely, there's a reason that Butchart is world-famous! But I'd be willing to stake money that they are NOT the best option for ALL of your group... unless you're some sort of weird groupthink cult that shares a single identical opinion about everything 😉

 

For example, really small kids might enjoy the carousel (it's a super-old-school one, with carved wooden horses) but generally I find older kids/teens are bored in most formal gardens and Butchart's no exception - plus, they crack down particularly hard on their rules to preserve the atmosphere of genteel ye Olde-iness. They have a customer code of conduct which even governs stuff like what you're not allowed to wear that make Disney's policies seem positively laid-back. Kids will not be tolerated running around for example - so it would be a waste of a fair chunk of both time and money to drag along anyone who doesn't express an interest in visiting.

 

As always with big groups, my suggestion is to indicate you're willing to book a group trip, but ask everyone to check out the website, reviews on TripAdvisor etc. and decide if it's for them or not. Maybe you only end up with half your group - still, a minibus and paying rack rate for entry will likely cost half what a ship tour does (NB: all ship tours are in USD, whereas Butchart and all taxi/bus prices are in CAD - a shuttle bus ride plus garden entry costs about CAD$75pp booked with CVS, who go back & forth all day, and if you can fill a bus you can expect to pay less that that per person).

 

Given you actually have a civilized arrival time of early afternoon, everything in Victoria will be open when you arrive. The Royal BC Museum is superb, there are a few very child-friendly things like the Bug Zoo, and for folks who appreciate historic buildings as well as pretty gardens Government House, Craigdarroch, or Hatley might be preferable to Butchart. If its a weekday, Parliament offers guided tours which are fascinating even if you're  not into Canadian politics  - it's a beautiful building with some spectacular ceilings especially. While personally I feel the afternoon Tea in the Empress is the single biggest ripoff on the Island, it's also the sort of thing that some folks are happy to drop ridiculous coin on and feel it was well-spent - and depending when in May, they may already be extending 'afternoon' to late in the evening in order to gouge every last penny from visitors (in the past they've taken bookings that start as late as 9pm!)

 

You didn't say exactly how long you have in port, but even if it's until late o'clock you will have the issue that most of Victoria's attractions roll up the proverbial sidewalks by 5pm, so in terms of ticketed attractions you realistically would be able to squeeze in two (or even three of the smaller ones) in downtown, but there's zero chance of doing 'Butchart Plus Anything' which means if you arrange a Butchart tour you're committing everyone on it to seeing nothing else... except maybe some kind of drive-by city tour of just the exteriors. Usually some touristy shops will stay open late on the main drag along Government Street near the inner harbour, so souvenir buying can also be left until later rather than prioritized early.

 

For grownups, a late departure would open up Victoria's superb beer scene - cruiselines organize pub crawls by bus, but frankly they are overpriced and ruin the atmosphere of the pub when a busload of tourists rolls up, so avoid those and go DIY. You can walk between at least a dozen decent bars & pubs in downtown without any transportation needed, and for folks who can't handle a couple of miles on foot cabs are cheap, and the little pickle-boat water taxis also run from by the cruise pier to multiple stops around the inner harbour (and there are several bars with decks right by the docks). We always visit Swans ourselves, one of the oldest brewpubs in the country and one of two with a second beer cellar (at the correct, British beer-serving temperature of ~50F instead of way-too-cold-to-appreciate-the-flavours-of-beer <40F like the rest of the continent). The other is Spinnakers, very convenient for a boat ride back to the ship, but a bit more a schlep on foot due to needing to get over a bridge.

 

Hope that helps!

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14 hours ago, martincath said:

We always visit Swans ourselves, one of the oldest brewpubs in the country and one of two with a second beer cellar (at the correct, British beer-serving temperature of ~50F instead of way-too-cold-to-appreciate-the-flavours-of-beer <40F like the rest of the continent). The other is Spinnakers, very convenient for a boat ride back to the ship, but a bit more a schlep on foot due to needing to get over a bridge.

 

Hope that helps!

 

In the big picture, Swans isn't really that old.  it was previously Buckerfields (a feed and tack store) and didn't become a brewery until I think 1989. In Metro Victoria, Spinniker's and the Prarie Inn were brewing beer long before Swan's, likewise so were a few on the lower mainland (lilke Horseshoe Bay). The initial brewmaster, Frank Appleton, was instrumental in setting up many of the Brewpubs/micro breweries on the west coast, include Oregon's Dechutes.

 

More interestingly is that it was (still is??) owned by the University as the owner left his estate to the local University.  He was almost always in the pub in its early days, I remember him chatting with us on multiple occasion

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1 hour ago, scottbee said:

In the big picture, Swans isn't really that old.  it was previously Buckerfields (a feed and tack store) and didn't become a brewery until I think 1989. In Metro Victoria, Spinniker's and the Prarie Inn were brewing beer long before Swan's, likewise so were a few on the lower mainland (lilke Horseshoe Bay). The initial brewmaster, Frank Appleton, was instrumental in setting up many of the Brewpubs/micro breweries on the west coast, include Oregon's Dechutes.

 

More interestingly is that it was (still is??) owned by the University as the owner left his estate to the local University.  He was almost always in the pub in its early days, I remember him chatting with us on multiple occasion

I think we may have a different definition of 'long before' Scott - the second-oldest extant Brewpub certainly counts as 'old' in my book (at least by Canadian standards)😉 I believe it is still owned by UVic. Basically anything still standing from about the first decade of the movement has a plenty long history IMO - I'd also include the first generation of Vancouver Brewpubs (Yaletown/Steamworks) which brings us right up to '95.

 

Spinnakers only opened five years earlier and is the one remaining brewpub that predates Swans; and the only older local microbreweries I've heard of or read about were Frank & John Mitchell's Bayshore (the very first modern era micro-brewery in Canada, 1982, which is probably the one you're thinking of in Horseshoe Bay - it only supplied Troller's, John's pub, when it first opened and started with just one beer, a clone of Fuller's London Pride) then John's first Vancouver operation, Shaftesbury in '87. The Prairie Inn I'm totally unfamiliar with except in the 'very historic hotel' sense, I've never heard of it in respect of the craft brewing revolution - any idea who was making the beer there? I've only heard of Frank & John doing any commercial brewing locally in the pre-Swans era.

 

Both Frank and John are definitely worthy of great respect for their achievements in getting the ball rolling, as well as personally training some of the very influential next generation (e.g. Sean Hoyne in Victoria, Iain Hill in Vancouver who continue to produce great beers  - and given the evolving palate of the region, frankly better beers for most drinkers though personally I still have a soft spot for Buckerfield's Bitter and will always take a pint of that first if it's available on cask).

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2 hours ago, martincath said:

I think we may have a different definition of 'long before' Scott - the second-oldest extant Brewpub certainly counts as 'old' in my book (at least by Canadian standards)😉 I believe it is still owned by UVic. Basically anything still standing from about the first decade of the movement has a plenty long history IMO - I'd also include the first generation of Vancouver Brewpubs (Yaletown/Steamworks) which brings us right up to '95.

 

Spinnakers only opened five years earlier and is the one remaining brewpub that predates Swans; and the only older local microbreweries I've heard of or read about were Frank & John Mitchell's Bayshore (the very first modern era micro-brewery in Canada, 1982, which is probably the one you're thinking of in Horseshoe Bay - it only supplied Troller's, John's pub, when it first opened and started with just one beer, a clone of Fuller's London Pride) then John's first Vancouver operation, Shaftesbury in '87. The Prairie Inn I'm totally unfamiliar with except in the 'very historic hotel' sense, I've never heard of it in respect of the craft brewing revolution - any idea who was making the beer there? I've only heard of Frank & John doing any commercial brewing locally in the pre-Swans era.

 

Both Frank and John are definitely worthy of great respect for their achievements in getting the ball rolling, as well as personally training some of the very influential next generation (e.g. Sean Hoyne in Victoria, Iain Hill in Vancouver who continue to produce great beers  - and given the evolving palate of the region, frankly better beers for most drinkers though personally I still have a soft spot for Buckerfield's Bitter and will always take a pint of that first if it's available on cask).

 

I remember when Swan's opened, and at that point definitely the Prarie Inn (Central Saanich), and Spinny's were in operation.  At that point Vancouver Island Brewery were also in business (although located on Kirkpatrick in C.Saanich around the corner from where I worked, not their current location on Government), feeding a number of other pubs in town.

 

And, I only remember Frank Appleton's name, because I loved the Appleton Brown....

 

 

Some history on the PI can be found here: https://seasidemagazine.ca/prairie-inn-neighbourhood-pub-legacy-community-building/

 

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1 hour ago, scottbee said:

... At that point Vancouver Island Brewery were also in business (although located on Kirkpatrick in C.Saanich around the corner from where I worked, not their current location on Government), feeding a number of other pubs in town.

 

Some history on the PI can be found here: https://seasidemagazine.ca/prairie-inn-neighbourhood-pub-legacy-community-building/

Thanks for the Prairie Inn link - which suggests they were brewing in 1983. I'm guessing they stopped brewing their own before my first visit to the Island in '03, they never appeared on my search of potential breweries to visit on that trip!

 

And also thanks for the reminder about VIB - I always think of them as a mid-90s brewery because they changed their name when they moved, but they do indeed date back to '84 as 'Island Pacific.'

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1 hour ago, martincath said:

Thanks for the Prairie Inn link - which suggests they were brewing in 1983. I'm guessing they stopped brewing their own before my first visit to the Island in '03, they never appeared on my search of potential breweries to visit on that trip!

 

And also thanks for the reminder about VIB - I always think of them as a mid-90s brewery because they changed their name when they moved, but they do indeed date back to '84 as 'Island Pacific.'

 

Prairie Inn was never great beer, so you didn't miss too much; but they were historically the 1st on the island; Spinnaker's #2, and Swans 3rd.

 

As for ViB, I'm pretty sure they changed their name prior to the move to downtown.  The name change from Island Pacific -> ViB was also a transition from 'cheap beer' to 'good beer'.  I remember going to a CAMRA event at VIB when they were still on Kirkpatrick (prob early 90s), and they were definitely in the 'good beer' era at that point; whereas back in 85 or so when I worked in the area they were IP and in the 'cheap beer' business

 

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21 minutes ago, scottbee said:

As for ViB, I'm pretty sure they changed their name prior to the move to downtown. ...

Well before my residency so no personal recollection - the info on their own website says the name change and move happened simultaneously, but it wouldn't be the first time and organization got their own history wrong...

 

OP - sorry we're going rather off-topic from your original request. Hopefully interesting enough to yourself and/or other readers to be worthwhile (folks do ask about sources for good beer in this neck of the woods occasionally)!

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On 11/20/2019 at 1:25 PM, RaeAnneF said:

This will be our first cruise on Holland, cruising San Diego to Vancouver May 2020. We will be a family reunion group of 20. We don't arrive in port until 2pm.Does anyone have experience/suggestions for the Butchart Gardens tour ? Any suggestions as far as using a private tour company vs cruise line tour? Is Butchart Gardens our best use of time for that very short stay in Victoria?

Butchart gardens.jpg

We took a tour through Princess in Sep 2018. If you are able to do the tour it was very interesting and we thought worth the cost. Good luck.

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