Cruise Pricing Gone Mad?

[CikraB]

Black Friday Deal my A$$!!!!! 11 night ABCs, Grand Cayman & Cartagena Nov 2, 2020 1B deck 8 balcony cabin mid ship 3 perks $5,672.00!!!!!!

I paid $3,687.48 same location and perks booking back in July. Prices are MAD

[MamaFej]

28 minutes ago, CikraB said:

Black Friday Deal my A$$!!!!! 11 night ABCs, Grand Cayman & Cartagena Nov 2, 2020 1B deck 8 balcony cabin mid ship 3 perks $5,672.00!!!!!!

I paid $3,687.48 same location and perks booking back in July. Prices are MAD

Yup. I just checked my three B2B2B cruises in the South Pacific in 2021, and the apples to apples prices were about 60% higher.

o 

It does pay to check, however. My late 2020 cruises were a slightly to significantly better deal on the Veteran's Day sale. 

 

I hate that it takes this much vigilance to make sure we are getting the most for our money. I'm grateful that my travel agent checked the 2020 ones for me before I even saw the email about the sale. 

[CikraB]

14 minutes ago, MamaFej said:

Yup. I just checked my three B2B2B cruises in the South Pacific in 2021, and the apples to apples prices were about 60% higher.

o 

It does pay to check, however. My late 2020 cruises were a slightly to significantly better deal on the Veteran's Day sale. 

 

I hate that it takes this much vigilance to make sure we are getting the most for our money. I'm grateful that my travel agent checked the 2020 ones for me before I even saw the email about the sale. 

Unfortunately for our sailing the Veteran's Day sale was also nearly 2k more as well.

[MamaFej]

50 minutes ago, CikraB said:

Unfortunately for our sailing the Veteran's Day sale was also nearly 2k more as well.

Ouch.

 

Well, I imagine you only booked at a rate you were willing to pay. It's always nice when the deal gets better eventually. Good luck on future "sales."

[CikraB]

18 hours ago, MamaFej said:

Ouch.

 

Well, I imagine you only booked at a rate you were willing to pay. It's always nice when the deal gets better eventually. Good luck on future "sales."

Thanks. I'll be interested to see the Oct/Nov 2021 prices when they are released. Hope to find a deal.

[vermonter16]

Haven't booked a new cruise in a year.  Have one planned in January and one the end of October which we are considering cancelling simply because Celebrity has been slipping.  I don't like where Celebrity has been going at all...cutting and raising the prices A LOT.  Normally we would have cruises booked out for the next 2 years but I will not just throw my hard earned money away when Celebrity is charging more and giving me less.  

[ABoatNerd]

vermonter16, excellent, nice to see there are vigilant consumers out there. 

 

We have not cruised Celebrity since 2015 and not likely to until their value proposition changes, as many others have stated.

 

We were Elite Plus at that point. Their price increases, product degradation turned us off. 

 

We monitor this board to determine if Celebrity has changed their ways, not yet.

 

While all the cruise lines are cost cutting, Celebrity has made the most formative changes to their previous excellent product. No thank you.

 

While this is about cruising - the same principle of consumer vigilance applies to all purchases - I punish restaurants etc if they degrade their product above the cost of living/local tax decisions etc. And I let the restaurant know about it and spread the word via social media and word of mouth. I am ruthless in punishing businesses who abuse the consumer.

 

A business worships the ground of the "obedient consumer" - who keeps buying despite receiving less and less value.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mnocket]

Well I see there is nearly a complete consensus that Celebrity has raised prices to a level that is driving customers to other cruise lines and/or land vacations.  What is fascinating to me is that this pricing strategy seems to be working for Celebrity, otherwise prices would be falling.  It seems we (the traditional cruise demographic) are being replaced by others who are willing to pay these higher prices, but I wonder.... who are these new customers?  All I read is how millennials are burdened by student loans, unable to afford homes, etc.  Are they still somehow able to take several weeks off from work and pay these high prices for a cruise vacation?   It seems that just as the wave of Boomer retirements is cresting, cruise lines are turning away and finding a different, more profitable, clientele. Either this, or traditional cruisers are complaining about price increases and threatening to go elsewhere, but in the end they are paying up.  After all, I really haven't seen a change in demographic on Celebrity ships.

Edited November 27, 2019 by mnocket

[yorky]

Just now, mnocket said:

Well I see there is nearly a complete consensus that Celebrity has raised prices to a level that is driving customers to other cruise lines and/or land vacations.  What is fascinating to me is that this pricing strategy seems to be working for Celebrity, otherwise prices would be falling.  It seems we (the traditional cruise demographic) are being replaced by others who are willing to pay these higher prices, but I wonder.... who are these new customers?  All I read is how millennials are burdened by student loans, unable to afford homes, etc.  Are they still somehow able to take several weeks off from work and pay these high prices for a cruise vacation?   It seems that just as the wave of Boomer retirements is cresting, cruise lines are turning away and finding a different, more profitable, clientele. Either this, or traditional cruises are complaining about price increases and threatening to go elsewhere, but in the end they are paying up.  After all, I really haven't seen a change in demographic on Celebrity ships.

There are plenty of people willing to pay the prices and plenty love the product. Celebrity is doing very well, I don’t see that changing anytime soon. Personalise we loved our cruise on September, staff and service all top notch, MDR continues to go downhill so one visit was enough, Murano was amazing, after they found we were there every other night they made amazing off menu dishes for us.

BUT we won’t pay the inflated price for most cruises, we have a future cruise credit after an issue with our room which we will use but will be very picky and use it on a cruise that offers genuine value. That’s probably going to be our last cruise with a Celebrity unless we see an amazing deal. We still like the product but won’t be paying these daft prices.

[Cruise Junky]

3 minutes ago, yorky said:

There are plenty of people willing to pay the prices and plenty love the product. Celebrity is doing very well, I don’t see that changing anytime soon. 

Just curious, how do you know they’re doing well? 

[yorky]

19 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

Just curious, how do you know they’re doing well? 

 

19 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

Just curious, how do you know they’re doing well? 

Quite simply because they are not changing. People will say ignore the fact ships are sailing full or near full because that can be skewed by last minute deals, fair enough. However if the business model is not working you change it, they have not and that tells you everything you need to know, unless of course RC is run by idiots who don’t look at the books and I very much doubt that.That might change but I don’t see anyone willing to state that the Celebrity brand is in trouble and passenger feedback continues to be just about higher than any other mainstream line. Many loyal passengers looking to leave, looks to be plenty willing to replace them.

Edited November 27, 2019 by yorky

[Wolf 8]

1 hour ago, Cruise Junky said:

Just curious, how do you know they’re doing well? 

 

Quarterly reports for the parent company, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd contain that financial information.  YTD RCL stock is up roughly 28%.  The U.S. economy is roaring and Celebrity is simply targeting a demographic with sufficient discretionary income.

[Cruise Junky]

3 minutes ago, Wolf 8 said:

 

Quarterly reports for the parent company, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd contain that financial information.  YTD RCL stock is up roughly 28%.  The U.S. economy is roaring and Celebrity is simply targeting a demographic with sufficient discretionary income.

No they don’t. They don’t break down the earnings by company.  We actually have no idea how Celebrity as a subsidiary is doing. 

[Wolf 8]

1 hour ago, Cruise Junky said:

No they don’t. They don’t break down the earnings by company.  We actually have no idea how Celebrity as a subsidiary is doing. 

 

You are correct that none of the RCL subsidiaries are presented as separate entities in the quarterly reports. As a capitalist, however my interest is the financial performance of the parent company since only it issues shares I can consider owning.  It is rational for me to conclude that RCL's 28% increase in share value of the last 12 months could not have been possible with poor performance by any of its major subsidiaries.  Contrast that to Carnival, the largest player in the industry.  Their focus on the lower economic demographic saw Carnival stock lose roughly 25% of its value during the same period.

 

 

[morfred]

We just got off the Infinity last week and it was stated that 70% the the cruisers booked another cruise while on board. True or not, The Future Cruise desk was always very busy.

[Cruise Junky]

14 minutes ago, Wolf 8 said:

 

You are correct that none of the RCL subsidiaries are presented as separate entities in the quarterly reports. As a capitalist, however my interest is the financial performance of the parent company since only it issues shares I can consider owning.  It is rational for me to conclude that RCL's 28% increase in share value of the last 12 months could not have been possible with poor performance by any of its major subsidiaries.  Contrast that to Carnival, the largest player in the industry.  Their focus on the lower economic demographic saw Carnival stock lose roughly 25% of its value during the same period.

 

 

Last November the stock price was $112 today its $121 where is this 28% increase you speak of?  In January 2018 it was over $134 

[tgg]

9 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

Last November the stock price was $112 today its $121 where is this 28% increase you speak of?  In January 2018 it was over $134 

 

The last big dip was the middle of last December, when the stock was in the low 90's.  Since then it has been as high as $131. It has backed off that high and is now $121.  

[Wolf 8]

8 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

Last November the stock price was $112 today its $121 where is this 28% increase you speak of?  In January 2018 it was over $134 

My bad, I hit YTD on the Google RCL summary and saw $92.55 which produces the roughly  28% YTD.  I did re-check the info I posted on Carnival's losses and it's correct - they're a disaster.

I think, however we are seeking to justify two differing points of view.  I believe Celebrity is shrewd in telling the public in this amazing economy if they want a taste of the good life they'll now have to pay more for it.  I sense from you the notion that Celebrity is somehow unfair in charging what enough people to fill their ships will now find a way to pay.

It's probably best at this point to agree to disagree.

[Cruise Junky]

1 hour ago, Wolf 8 said:

My bad, I hit YTD on the Google RCL summary and saw $92.55 which produces the roughly  28% YTD.  I did re-check the info I posted on Carnival's losses and it's correct - they're a disaster.

I think, however we are seeking to justify two differing points of view.  I believe Celebrity is shrewd in telling the public in this amazing economy if they want a taste of the good life they'll now have to pay more for it.  I sense from you the notion that Celebrity is somehow unfair in charging what enough people to fill their ships will now find a way to pay.

It's probably best at this point to agree to disagree.

Not unfair at all. They can charge what they want. I was questioning the statement that Celebrity was doing well. I asked what they were basing it on. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Cruise Junky

[yorky]

12 hours ago, Cruise Junky said:

Not unfair at all. They can charge what they want. I was questioning the statement that Celebrity was doing well. I asked what they were basing it on. 

I would turn that around and say that for all the doomsday predictions where is there any proof that they are on rocky ground ? Everything we see, RC profits, passenger numbers, the continuation of increased fares with bookings still high, new ships. I can’t see any credible evidence to suggest that at this moment in time Celebrity are struggling. To me they appear to be thriving although moving out of my price range but I’m happy to read any actual evidence showing that’s not the case.

Edited November 28, 2019 by yorky

[Hlitner]

14 hours ago, Wolf 8 said:

My bad, I hit YTD on the Google RCL summary and saw $92.55 which produces the roughly  28% YTD.  I did re-check the info I posted on Carnival's losses and it's correct - they're a disaster.

I think, however we are seeking to justify two differing points of view.  I believe Celebrity is shrewd in telling the public in this amazing economy if they want a taste of the good life they'll now have to pay more for it.  I sense from you the notion that Celebrity is somehow unfair in charging what enough people to fill their ships will now find a way to pay.

It's probably best at this point to agree to disagree.

Judging a company on stock performance is a good way to find yourself in the poor house.  CCL has actually increased their year over year Revenue by just over 2%, but increasing costs have certainly hurt their bottom line.  On the other hand, as one who cruises a lot (and owns both CCL and RCL stock) my personal return on CCL stock has been in the hundreds of percent since we purchased the stock at about $22.  We have collected thousands of dollars or onboard credit (many times what we paid for the stock) not to mention the dividends which have yielded a healthy ROI.  And the current P/E ratio of just over 10 would convince most investors that the stock is currently undervalued.

 

As to Celebrity charging much higher prices, as long as they can increase their average revenue per berth....that is a good strategy.  But as a frequent cruiser we now find ourselves cruising less and less on RCI products (including Celebrity) and more on CCL products as well as MSC.  The key issue for Celebrity is "price elasticity" which is a simple economic concept that involves how much a company can increase prices before it has an adverse impact on the bottom line.  Consider that Celebrity's pricing has driven us (and many others) to look elsewhere.  As I have previously posted, when cruise lines such as Seabourn are actually less expensive (comparing similar accommodations and perks) then Celebrity we are going to opt for Seabourn nearly every time.  And also consider that MSC's Yacht Club is normally  priced about $300 per passenger day which gets you a truly Deluxe Balcony Cabin, amazing service, and an all-inclusive experience.   Celebrity is simply assuming that loyalty and ignorance (of the competition) will keep their ships at 100+ % of capacity.  Time will tell.  But suffice it to say that this cruiser has 6 cruises booked (over 100 days) and not a single booking is with a RCL product.  And the primary reason is price and our opinion of value.

 

Hank

[Wolf 8]

Hank, thanks for the investing tips.  Enjoy your upcoming cruises.

[panamapd]

Well, I'm not a frequent Celebrity cruiser.  We sailed on the Eclipse to the fjords back in July 2013, without children.  Since then have really wanted to try modern luxury again but really couldn't justify the, for me, high prices.  Compared to all the other brands that unless travelling, as someone else pointed out:-

 

last minute

cruise only without flights

during school holidays

 

Celebrity don't come cheap!! I couldn't find any deals for 2 adults and 1 child under £1800 for a week in an inside cabin.  This was easily £1,000 more than say Costa, MSC, Princess, etc.

 

What brings me back to Celebrity and possibly others that it is, IMHO, is that Celebrity is a "one-off/once-in a while super treat".  It is a brand you choose for a special event, new ship, etc experience.  For me, a significant birthday is coming up so we are booked onto the Apex pre-view cruise.  We have an oceanview and are paying a lot more than I would for with another cruise  line.  Added to this, it is just me and my son going!!

 

The proof in Celebrity's pudding going forward is how much repeat business they will achieve.  As stated above, for one 4 night cruise with Celebrity, I could do a 7 night cruise on the new Costa Smeralda and a 3 night with MSC Preziosa (including flights to and from the UK)!  But am willing to do it - on this occasion!!

[misha1]

Celebrity Elites here who's last 2 cruises have been NCL and next cruise will likely be RCCL, NCL, or GASP! Carnival.  These prices are out of control!

[cruiselvr04]

We have our first Celebrity cruise in about 10 months.  It may be our last.  I keep watching prices but unless I go to an inside, which I won't do, it's too pricey for me.  The one we have booked seems high but they are even higher now.  I'll be checking the higher range cruises for comparison.  If I'm spending that much I just might spend a bit more and get a better product.