Uber in London

[Bob++]

Uber will not be granted a new licence to operate in London, Transport for London (TfL) has said. The regulator said the taxi app was not "fit and proper" as a licence holder, despite having made a number of positive changes to its operations.

 

Uber originally lost its licence in 2017 due to safety concerns, but was granted a 15-month extension. The firm says it will appeal against the decision and can continue to operate during that process.

 

London Mayor Sadiq Khan praised the Uber ruling. He said: "Only in the last few months it has been established that 14,000 Uber journeys have involved fraudulent drivers uploading their photos to other driver accounts - with passengers' safety potentially put at risk getting into cars with unlicensed and suspended drivers."

[orchestrapal]

Great news for London. The additional cars not only totally messed up the traffic patterns in the GREAT CITY they also took business from the Black Taxies.  Back to drivers with the  “knowledge” who we never left for Uber even though we use them at home and elsewhere.

 

[picsa]

5 hours ago, orchestrapal said:

 Back to drivers with the  “knowledge”

 

You like the tax evading black cab drivers who take you the long way round, where the card machine is always broken, who won't do any journeys they don't fancy, and usually with some racist commentary along the way?

 

Anyway, fake news, as Uber will appeal and they can continue to operate whilst the legal process goes on.

[GrJ Berkshire]

7 hours ago, orchestrapal said:

Great news for London. The additional cars not only totally messed up the traffic patterns in the GREAT CITY they also took business from the Black Taxies.  Back to drivers with the  “knowledge” who we never left for Uber even though we use them at home and elsewhere.

 

Great news, get the cowboys off the streets

Why take a dodgy Toyota, with an unqualified driver when you have black cab drivers who has passed the knowledge (probably the hardest exam to pass) to save a few quid

 

GOOD. RIDDANCE !!!!!!

[tartanexile81]

On 11/25/2019 at 7:52 PM, picsa said:

 

You like the tax evading black cab drivers who take you the long way round, where the card machine is always broken, who won't do any journeys they don't fancy, and usually with some racist commentary along the way?

 

Agree with picsa. I have had so many bad experiences with London cab drivers - surly, racist,  sexist and expect a tip for bad service.  

 

Have used Uber all round the world doing independent tours on cruises and have had not had a bad experience yet. The cars are often new, the drivers engage you in conversation and are so helpful.  This isn't hearsay but based on my experience on multiple occasions. They don't run a jobs for the boys system either. Finally, they pick up in remote places that taxi drivers won't consider.   

[dogs4fun]

57 minutes ago, tartanexile81 said:

Have used Uber all round the world doing independent tours on cruises and have had not had a bad experience yet. The cars are often new, the drivers engage you in conversation and are so helpful.  This isn't hearsay but based on my experience on multiple occasions. They don't run a jobs for the boys system either. Finally, they pick up in remote places that taxi drivers won't consider.   

This has been our experience as well - never had a bad ride with Uber. Personally, I feel that a little competition is a good thing - it encourages the competitors to step up their game.

To each their own.

Edited November 27, 2019 by dogs4fun

[scottbee]

1 hour ago, dogs4fun said:

This has been our experience as well - never had a bad ride with Uber. Personally, I feel that a little competition is a good thing - it encourages the competitors to step up their game.

To each their own.

The difference is that it's not competition.  With competition the sides would be playing with the same rules, whereas Uber can only exist if they don't have to follow the local taxi rules.  ABC (Australia) did a pretty good documentary on what Uber Australia does and continues to do, to skirt regulation; it's not a pretty sight.

 

Case in point is here in Vancouver; Uber don't operate.  It's not because they've been banned, it's because if they did operate, they'd have to follow the same rules, and they choose not to.

 

[princeton123211]

1 hour ago, scottbee said:

Case in point is here in Vancouver; Uber don't operate.  It's not because they've been banned, it's because if they did operate, they'd have to follow the same rules, and they choose not to.

Uber is reportedly days away from launching in Vancouver. 

[scottbee]

3 hours ago, princeton123211 said:

Uber is reportedly days away from launching in Vancouver. 

 

However, in order to operate, they're going to have to follow most of the rules that taxis do.  Commercial Drivers' licensing, commercial insurance etc etc

 

Uber's business model (globally) is to ignore local regulation until you're too big for governments to stop you.  Also, they're bleeding money to get ridership (5.25billion a quarter).  When they have to start charging full cost for rides, the difference between taxis and Uber will get smaller

 

[princeton123211]

14 minutes ago, scottbee said:

However, in order to operate, they're going to have to follow most of the rules that taxis do.  Commercial Drivers' licensing, commercial insurance etc etc

Which are all barriers to entry that have caused the current taxi industry to be so low quality and uncompetitive. London literally might be the only city on earth that has nicer taxis than what Uber or Lyft provide in terms of cars. Most taxi fleets (or whats left of them) are old, nasty cars-- in a lot of cases former police cars. 

 

15 minutes ago, scottbee said:

When they have to start charging full cost for rides, the difference between taxis and Uber will get smaller

But there wont be enough taxis left for anyone to care. I applaud Vancouver for trying to do what most other cities have failed at, but there is some sort of trojan horse at work here. If they didn't think they couldn't decimate the current taxi industry and eventually change the laws they wouldn't spend their time and money going in there.  

[GrJ Berkshire]

12 hours ago, princeton123211 said:

Which are all barriers to entry that have caused the current taxi industry to be so low quality and uncompetitive. London literally might be the only city on earth that has nicer taxis than what Uber or Lyft provide in terms of cars. Most taxi fleets (or whats left of them) are old, nasty cars-- in a lot of cases former police cars. 

 

But there wont be enough taxis left for anyone to care. I applaud Vancouver for trying to do what most other cities have failed at, but there is some sort of trojan horse at work here. If they didn't think they couldn't decimate the current taxi industry and eventually change the laws they wouldn't spend their time and money going in there.  

The levels of losses that uber are running up is madness, if the charged the economic fare, no one would look at them. The concept is dangerous , as it will drive the regulated taxi services away and then just leave dodgy uber to mop up and charge what they want for an inferior service. This is why London and TfL has this correct.

[Bob++]

I guess the question is; "Would you let your daughter ride in a taxi whose driver may be unlicensed, uninsured, and has not passed any police checks?

 

All professions have some black sheep, but London's black cab drivers are very closely regulated, unlike the drivers of the many private-hire operators, including Uber. 

 

These days, black cab drivers do not expect a tip and if you are taken the 'long way around' you can report the driver and expect some reaction.

 

 

[gnome12]

Uber’s model will only be viable when we have self-driving cars and there is no driver to pay. Unfortunately, or fortunately, they may be out of business by then. 

[princeton123211]

On 11/28/2019 at 5:05 AM, GrJ Berkshire said:

if the charged the economic fare, no one would look at them. The concept is dangerous

I don't think that at all-- in most cities I travel to Uber's cars and drivers are of a much higher quality than the taxis there ever were. Thats why Uber and Lyft (and a handful of smaller companies) have laid waste to the traditional taxi model. Taxi fleets in Washington DC, Philly, and Boston used to make up the majority of the cars you saw on the road there-- now you don't see that many. New York might be the only major northeast city that still has a decent sized taxi fleet. 

 

The ride share model of being able to call a car to you at any time, anywhere through an app is revolutionary. The taxis companies should have thought of it themselves-- one of those situations where a traditional video rental company had plenty of time to think up Netflix but failed to act. The taxis companies got what they deserved being innovated out of existence. 

 

Again, London is one of the only cities in the world that the taxis are of a high quality and the cab companies aren't a front for the local mafia as is frequently the case in the US. 

 

[tartanexile81]

3 hours ago, princeton123211 said:

I don't think that at all-- in most cities I travel to Uber's cars and drivers are of a much higher quality than the taxis there ever were. Thats why Uber and Lyft (and a handful of smaller companies) have laid waste to the traditional taxi model. Taxi fleets in Washington DC, Philly, and Boston used to make up the majority of the cars you saw on the road there-- now you don't see that many. New York might be the only major northeast city that still has a decent sized taxi fleet. 

 

The ride share model of being able to call a car to you at any time, anywhere through an app is revolutionary. The taxis companies should have thought of it themselves-- one of those situations where a traditional video rental company had plenty of time to think up Netflix but failed to act. The taxis companies got what they deserved being innovated out of existence. 

 

Again, London is one of the only cities in the world that the taxis are of a high quality and the cab companies aren't a front for the local mafia as is frequently the case in the US. 

 

 

 

Well said princeton123211. We need innovation. The app model suits us perfectly. and Uber / Lyft has been hugely successful for us in the USA too including Boston, DC and NY

 

However my experiences of black cab drivers in London certainly is not that they are of high quality.  Whilst others may say the drivers don't  expect a tip, on a couple of occasions  we dared not to give one because of terrible service,  we were treated with obvious annoyance and one one occasion we were met with abuse.  

[picsa]

On 11/28/2019 at 10:45 AM, Bob++ said:

I guess the question is; "Would you let your daughter ride in a taxi whose driver may be unlicensed, uninsured, and has not passed any police checks?

 

So you mean every minicab company in the UK.

 

I wonder why Sadiq Khan has not removed the licences of all the dodgy minicab companies in London which have been operating for decades.

[scottbee]

On 11/29/2019 at 11:24 AM, princeton123211 said:

... much higher quality than the taxis there ever were. Thats why Uber and Lyft (and a handful of smaller companies) have laid waste to the traditional taxi model. ...

 

No, there are reasons that Uber/Lyft have laid waste to the existing Taxi fleet, and that's not it.

 

1) They have big enough pockets that they've been subsidizing rides (until the taxi business is out of business)

2) They've paid off enough politicians to ensure that rules that apply to their competition aren't applied to them (lowering their costs)

3) The travelling public are sheep, and want everything at the lowest possible price (despite #1 and #2)

 

[princeton123211]

46 minutes ago, scottbee said:

1) They have big enough pockets that they've been subsidizing rides (until the taxi business is out of business)

As is the prerogative of any company in a position to disrupt an outdated business model like the traditional taxi business in a free market economy. 

47 minutes ago, scottbee said:

2) They've paid off enough politicians to ensure that rules that apply to their competition aren't applied to them (lowering their costs)

My guess is you can't prove that but would be interested if you could. 

 

48 minutes ago, scottbee said:

3) The travelling public are sheep, and want everything at the lowest possible price (despite #1 and #2)

Totally disagree here-- companies like Lyft and Uber provide a higher quality product in most cities they are in. I travel to Washington DC frequently and this was one of the first cities they went into-- the traditional taxi fleet were mostly 12-15 year old cars on their last legs with entitled drivers who wouldn't take credit cards or drive you to places they were legally obligated to because it was inconvenient for them. You don't see as many taxis in DC these days. 

[picsa]

On 12/9/2019 at 5:11 PM, scottbee said:

No, there are reasons that Uber/Lyft have laid waste to the existing Taxi fleet, and that's not it.

 

1) They have big enough pockets that they've been subsidizing rides (until the taxi business is out of business)

2) They've paid off enough politicians to ensure that rules that apply to their competition aren't applied to them (lowering their costs)

3) The travelling public are sheep, and want everything at the lowest possible price (despite #1 and #2)

 

 

Nonsense

 

1 - Certainly in London black cab taxis fares are overpriced - any fare that is so high that a driver is willing to waste an hour or two of time queuing up at Heathrow to grab a juicy high priced fare into town, is a fare that is too high.

 

2 - If anything in London the politicians are doing everything to apply the rules to Uber far harder than to the black cabs and mini-cabs.

 

3 - The public want service and convenience - If you want to pay by card (required by law in black cabs in London), then good luck with that as the machines are usually 'broken' and they want cash. If you want to go south of the river, then good luck finding a black cab willing to do that late at night. If you want to go to a local area from Heathrow (see above) then good luck finding a black cab willing to do that. If you are concerned you have been ripped off by being taken the long way round and want to argue that with a black cab driver, then good luck with that.

 

[ducklite]

On 11/25/2019 at 4:59 PM, GrJ Berkshire said:

Great news, get the cowboys off the streets

Why take a dodgy Toyota, with an unqualified driver when you have black cab drivers who has passed the knowledge (probably the hardest exam to pass) to save a few quid

 

GOOD. RIDDANCE !!!!!!

My last four Uber rides have been in a C-Class Mercedes, a Tesla Model X, a BMW, and another Mercedes.  These were in Austin and Prague.  I've ridden in far more dodgy and dirty taxis with drivers with bad attitudes who have tried to rip me off--Including a London black cab and a taxi in Prague who I didn't get into because he was trying to charge me the equivalent of US $60 for what should have been an equivalent $US 8 ride.