Well, that'll leave a mark - Glory Damaged in Cozumel

[chengkp75]

20 hours ago, Sean_B said:

Coming from a Navy background where one of my ships had similar damage, I can say with certainty that this will take many weeks, if not a couple of months to repair.

Navy shipyards are totally different from commercial shipyards.  If that takes more than 10-14 days to repair, and most could be done underway, I'd be surprised.

Edited December 21, 2019 by chengkp75

[chengkp75]

20 hours ago, PrincessArlena'sDad said:

Would a Harbor pilot have been in control of the ship? 

 

20 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

Harbor pilots don't control the ships.

 

20 hours ago, Sean_B said:

Harbour Pilots only give suggestions in navigation to the Captain, who is at all times responsible for the movement and safety of the ship, her crew and passengers. The Captain is free to accept or ignore anything the Pilot says.

While a harbor pilot is in fact only an adviser to the Captain on local conditions, in nearly all cases, the pilot is given "the conn" (the authority to issue helm and propulsion orders to the bridge officers), meaning that the pilot is "in charge" of maneuvering the ship, just as if the Captain had given the Staff Captain "the conn".  So, while the Captain can take back the conn at any time from the pilot, in 99% of instances, the pilot has the conn, and is "controlling" the ship.

Edited December 21, 2019 by chengkp75

[chengkp75]

18 hours ago, jsglow said:

 

Meaning that they can safely get the existing passengers onboard back to New Orleans and she isn't going to sink on the way.  You people are dreaming if you think she isn't going out of service for many weeks.  That's structural iron.  She's gone.  Maybe by her scheduled sailing this weekend.

I would be very, very surprised if the ship is out of service for more than a week, if that.  Yes, it is structural, but not structural, but only structural to the superstructure, not to the main strength of the vessel, which virtually none of the superstructure is.  That can be repaired by having sections pre-fabricated, and then cutting out the damaged section to match.  Much of that can be done in ports while in service, it just means that the dining room in that area will be blocked off.

[chengkp75]

16 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

They may have to go into dry dock to fix the buckled deck, that isn't something that I would expect to be repaired outside of a dry dock. 

While it may require a visit to a shipyard for repair, there is nothing there that requires drydocking the ship.  Really, most of that could be repaired dockside, at a cruise terminal, it merely requires crane service and welders.

[Ray66]

CEO Arnold W. Donald says:

“We will do a deep investigation on this,” Donald said, adding the company takes seriously its responsibility for safety. “But the most important thing is the ships are able to sail and they can continue on with guests having a great vacation.”

People who have booked future trips on either ship involved — the Carnival Glory and the Carnival Legend — will be able to go on them as planned. The Glory has some damage, but it will be repaired shortly, Donald said.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/20/everyone-is-all-right---carnival-ceo-on-ship-collision-in-mexico.html

[chengkp75]

16 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

If you have ship building experience I'll of course bow to your wisdom but that isn't cosmetic damage. I can see them trying to make precision welds on a moving deck.

There aren't a lot of "precision" welds in shipbuilding

16 hours ago, robc1972 said:

 

No ship building experience but I have spent a few years in structural engineering classes and construction industry.

They can get prep work done underway and when tied up in ports get the precision work done while the boat isn't moving.

As long as they dont care how long it takes to get fixed they can keep it in service.

 

Yes, they will pre-fabricate sections of deck with the structural stiffeners and the bulwark already installed, then they will cut the damaged section out to match the template and crane in the new sections.  You build temporary brackets to hold the new section in place and to keep it from moving, and then you can do your production welds to your heart's content.  Cut away the temp brackets once fully welded.  This is standard shipbuilding practice, and you will see that on large sections of repair like this, they will even weld inverted u-shaped plates to both the existing structure and the new piece, and use wedges driven into the opening of the "u" to pull plates back into alignment when they bow out of shape from the heat of welding.  These plates are also used with chainhoists and hydraulic cylinders to pull gaps together.

[sparks1093]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While it may require a visit to a shipyard for repair, there is nothing there that requires drydocking the ship.  Really, most of that could be repaired dockside, at a cruise terminal, it merely requires crane service and welders.

Yes, I was over-loose with my terminology.

[chengkp75]

14 hours ago, longhorn2004 said:

Get some people from Avondale shipyard to meet it in New Orleans and start welding a plate over it.

Avondale went belly up years ago.

[chengkp75]

13 hours ago, Youngcruiser1994 said:

the us coast guard wont be able to investigate until the ship gets back to NO we wont know anything until that happens.

The USCG really has nothing to investigate at this time.  It is up to the flag state, the port state (Mexico), and the class society to determine whether the ship can sail or not.  Once the ship gets to a US port, then the USCG can determine if they think, as port state control, whether the ship is safe to sail or not.  USCG does not have final say in all things related to foreign flag ships, and in most cases, the USCG will defer to the class societies recommendations, as they are far more experienced in shipbuilding than the USCG.

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, Formula280SS said:

 

Just per the various videos online.  IMO, it appears Oasis is using the Port thrusters against Glory.  Do I know?   Nope.  Just looking at the 10+ videos is looks like she is.  Hopefully we'll find out.  Also, there are some really experienced marine ship members here that might weigh in.

Oasis would not have used her thrusters "to keep the Glory away".  The wash from those thrusters would not have had enough force to do any good, and would only have stressed the Oasis' mooring lines and possibly broken those.

[chengkp75]

11 hours ago, Sean_B said:

As for the CEO knowing more than we do, I don't doubt that he's at least one personal conversation with the Captain and perhaps two, but there's no way they've had that damage inspected by a Marine Engineer due to their location, time and some other factors. They won't truly know until they get back to the US, so be prepared for the CEO to change his mind.

Actually, there is likely at least one class surveyor in Cozumel, as there are in most major ports, or within an hour or two by plane.  If that damage was not surveyed within 4 hours, and class recommendations made at that time, I'd be surprised.

[chengkp75]

11 hours ago, Thorncroft said:

I think it's unlikely that they'll fix this damage while under way.  With all the cutting and welding that will be required, the risk of fire is too strong to allow passengers on board while repairs are in progress. They may patch the holes in the ship and block off the interior area and cruise on until a slot opens up in a shipyard to make proper repairs. They'll need some custom ordered parts anyway, such as the windows, that won't be immediately available. 

Large scale welding and cutting operations are done with passengers onboard all the time.  Look at the RCI ships doing the scrubber installations, and one of them had a fire up there and had to repair large sections of the decorative funnel, all done while cruising along.  As for waiting for a slot to open, this damage would all be repaired in a "wet berth", meaning the ship doesn't need to book a drydock space, most shipyards have some berthing available for in water repairs at all times.  And, while there will be some delay in getting all materials, why should that take the ship out of service?  It will take the same time whether the ship is sailing or sitting idle waiting for the parts.  They can cover the window openings with steel plates until the windows arrive.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, AL3XCruise said:

 

The big difference is that you can't just line up farther out and come in really slow.  A ship is constantly being impacted by current and wind, and needs to continually adjust for that.  Think about a boat crossing a swift river.  It needs to adjust its course and maintain a certain speed in order to keep from getting pushed downstream.  Ships, likewise, must counter wind and current at all times.  As the ships orientation changes, winds gusts hit the vessel, etc, those in charge need to counteract with the correct amount of power from thrusters and main propulsion.  Too little or too much and you are in the wrong place.  Throw in the ships inertia and the fact that rudders and thrusters have different levels of effectiveness at different speeds and you can see why it takes a long time to command a large vessel.  A few of our members who have commanded larger vessels can probably give better examples.

In addition to what you say, there is the complicating factor of the other ship, Legend, that affects the docking maneuver.  I haven't looked at the videos all that closely, and even if I had, I doubt I'd know the exact environmental conditions from them.  If the wind was blowing from the Legend towards the Glory, and the Glory was using her stern thrusters to counteract this, thrusting towards the direction the wind is coming from, then when the stern gets blanketed from the wind by the Legend, as the Glory backs in, suddenly the stern thrusters are pushing against a non-existent wind force, and the stern swings towards the Legend.  A similar thing happened on Vista's (I think it was) inaugural visit to NYC, where they were turning into the berth, and thrusting against the river current, and when the bow got past the end of the dock, the current no longer affected it, and the thrusters drove the bow into the pier.  Just a possibility.  Only the folks on the bridge at the time will know what the conditions were.

[puppycanducruise]

Thanks Chief.

Appreciate your input.

[Earthworm Jim]

15 minutes ago, puppycanducruise said:

Thanks Chief.

Appreciate your input.

 

Yes, seconded. Chengkp75 is a real asset to us landlubbers on these boards to help us understand this kind of thing.

 

(Assuming "Chief" is chengkp75, which seems likely)

 

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

While it may require a visit to a shipyard for repair, there is nothing there that requires drydocking the ship.  Really, most of that could be repaired dockside, at a cruise terminal, it merely requires crane service and welders.

As always, your expertise and knowledge is appreciated.

[Cruise a holic]

Will both ships need to cancel cruises for a few weeks?  Any update?

[Greenhopster]

Ray98 you are dead on. Get information from the people in the know. And I'm pretty sure it will be accurate when released. Some folks are like today's media, trying to make more out of it.

[Greenhopster]

15 hours ago, ray98 said:

 

Why?  That is commonplace in the business world on any news worthy incident.  Why would you want 1k random employees discussing an incident based primarily on hearsay and facts that are beyond the area of expertise for 99% of them. 

 

11 hours ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

Interesting that Glory is still moored in port

Checking this morning, it appears the Glory left COZ around 1:45am est. Combined with the picture of a small hoist next to the damaged area, I would bet they chose to debris as much as they could and still make NO on time. They are running 23 knots now. Hope future cruises go off on schedule or very close to schedule.

[toad455]

$100 OBC to use in one day. The bars & shops on the Glory are going to be very busy today.

[declansdad]

5 minutes ago, toad455 said:

$100 OBC to use in one day. The bars & shops on the Glory are going to be very busy today.

 

Put it in a slot machine and then cash out.

[gatour]

2 hours ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Yes, seconded. Chengkp75 is a real asset to us landlubbers on these boards to help us understand this kind of thing.

 

(Assuming "Chief" is chengkp75, which seems likely)

 

Yes "Chief"  is chengkp75.  cheng is short for Chief Engineer, not sure what the kp75, thinking the 75 may be a major year milestone in his ship going career.  He has mostly worked on freight ships but did do a stint on a NCL cruise ship.

 

He has been great in keeping us landlubbers for going off the boards about what  may have happened and what the next steps will be when things like this happen to a cruise ship.

[darth frosty]

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Cruise a holic said:

Will both ships need to cancel cruises for a few weeks?  Any update?

I doubt that Legend will even have any repairs done before the next drydock.  The dimpling of the shell plating on the bow does not look significant enough to have tripped or bent any frames in behind it, and it does not appear to be deep enough, or abrupt enough to require plate replacement.  Class will list it as a "repair at owner's discretion at next scheduled drydock".  A coat of paint and no one will see it.

[chengkp75]

21 minutes ago, gatour said:

Yes "Chief"  is chengkp75.  cheng is short for Chief Engineer, not sure what the kp75, thinking the 75 may be a major year milestone in his ship going career.  He has mostly worked on freight ships but did do a stint on a NCL cruise ship.

KP stands for Kings Point, my alma mater that is my avatar, and 75 is my graduation year.