18 year old

[brillohead]

9 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

I met under 18 needs the letter only......

But this thread isn't about minors, it's about 18yos...???

[brillohead]

12 hours ago, mayleeman said:

you disparaged any idea that the OP should supervise the friend

I'm still waiting for @mayleeman to show me this part....

[HalfHand]

18 is legally an adult, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have free reign.

 

I had sole physical and legal custody of my daughter until she was 21, that means at 18, 19, and 20 her mother would have been required legally to have permission from me to take her out of the country. Her mother was also required to pay child support until she was 21.

 

 I have no idea what the laws are surrounding it, I do know some of it has to do with high school. You are still responsible for your child until high school graduation, unless the kid officially quits school. Same goes for college to a degree, the child has to use the parents income for federal aid unless they can prove they have been living on their own for 2 years, generally a court approved emancipation is required for that.

 

This may all be out of date by now, but as of 10 or so years ago that's how it worked. 18 means they can go fight for their country, other than that though there are a bunch of restrictions still. 21 would be the truest age of adult hood, but even then it's 25 to rent a car...

[Clarea]

6 hours ago, HalfHand said:

... but even then it's 25 to rent a car...

 

I believe this has changed in the US also.  Under 25 can rent a car, but they get hit with a surcharge.

[cb at sea]

He should bring his DL, too...easier to take ashore than his passport.

[brillohead]

8 hours ago, HalfHand said:

I had sole physical and legal custody of my daughter until she was 21, that means at 18, 19, and 20 her mother would have been required legally to have permission from me to take her out of the country. 

Unless your daughter has diminished capacity, she is considered an adult at 18yo in the USA and can leave the country of her own volition.  

Paying child support is something different, it pertains to when you're allowed to cut a child off from financial support.  But at 18yo, even if still in high school, your child is legally an adult and can enter into legal contracts and leave the country on their own, without any parental consent needed. 

[mayleeman]

10 hours ago, brillohead said:

I'm still waiting for @mayleeman to show me this part....

Explained already. Let it go. Out.

[Grandma Dazzles]

Understanding that the 18-year-old is an adult and can take care of himself, I would still recommend anyone traveling with a friend (of any age), or a family member whom they don’t really know/see frequently, have basic medical information on that person.
 

In an emergency if the person is hurt, unconscious, it can be very helpful to know if someone has allergies, has a medical condition, etc. to pass along to attending physician. 

[brillohead]

10 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

Explained already. Let it go. Out.

And yet, you didn't!  LOL

[HalfHand]

5 hours ago, brillohead said:

Unless your daughter has diminished capacity, she is considered an adult at 18yo in the USA and can leave the country of her own volition.  

Paying child support is something different, it pertains to when you're allowed to cut a child off from financial support.  But at 18yo, even if still in high school, your child is legally an adult and can enter into legal contracts and leave the country on their own, without any parental consent needed. 

 

Seriously?

 

Let me make this more clear for you. This isn't speculation on my part. When my daughter was 19 my wife had to have written permission FROM ME to take our daughter to the Bahamas.

 

My daughter is NOT special needs.

 

The problem is you think 18 is some magic number. I'm telling you with demonstrated facts that you are incorrect. I can't believe you have the gall to sit here and tell me my lawyer, and the judge presiding over the details of the custody of my daughter were wrong.

 

I suggest you drop out of this discussion, you really are starting to sound deranged.

 

 

[Blitzburggirl]

We took my son (17 at the time) and his friend (18 at the time) last April.

 

It was Norwegian, but no- we didn't need anything special. 

 

The only thing I haven't seen said anywhere is... I was appalled that my 17 year old son was allowed to disembark in Nassau with only his 18 year old friend?!!?!?!?!? So if you're not ok with that, be aware it's a possibility. I didn't even know that it could happen as my son was a minor- so we never discussed it. 

[BTHodgeman]

1 hour ago, Blitzburggirl said:

The only thing I haven't seen said anywhere is... I was appalled that my 17 year old son was allowed to disembark in Nassau with only his 18 year old friend?!!?!?!?!? So if you're not ok with that, be aware it's a possibility. I didn't even know that it could happen as my son was a minor- so we never discussed it. 

 

From the Royal Caribbean Guest Conduct Policy:

 

Ports of Call

Under age 18 must be accompanied by a parent or adult guardian.

 

Because he was leaving with someone 18+, RC must consider that person to be the 'adult guardian.'

 

However, another version of the Guest Conduct Policy (also directly from RC's website), specifies that only guests under 16 must be accompanied by a parent or guardian:

 

Ports of Call

Under age 16 must be accompanied by a parent or adult guardian.

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by BTHodgeman
Formatting.

[Blitzburggirl]

1 hour ago, HalfHand said:

 

Seriously?

 

Let me make this more clear for you. This isn't speculation on my part. When my daughter was 19 my wife had to have written permission FROM ME to take our daughter to the Bahamas.

 

My daughter is NOT special needs.

 

The problem is you think 18 is some magic number. I'm telling you with demonstrated facts that you are incorrect. I can't believe you have the gall to sit here and tell me my lawyer, and the judge presiding over the details of the custody of my daughter were wrong.

 

I suggest you drop out of this discussion, you really are starting to sound deranged.

 

 

And you are sounding unhinged. Hahahaha

 

As a single parent whose ex spouse is military, I've lived far from my sons father since my son was 5. In those years we've gone on 8-10 cruises, countless trips to Canada, and two European trips. I always carry my separation agreement (in North Carolina the separation agreement outlines the terms of the divorce) and the executed divorce document. In the separation agreement it states that I have (well... now had lol) sole legal custody. That means I can (could) take him where I want- when I want. Even though I always had it, I was never once asked for it.

 

There is likely more back story for your particular situation, but the vast majority of situations end at 18. That's just the way it is. Was your daughter still in high school at 19? Sole legal custody gives you the responsibility of her education. That said, I've never once heard of anything except financial obligations extending beyond 18, unless your daughter is special needs. No one is saying all these folks in your life are wrong, if that's the way it was structured, I guess that's the way yours was structured. But believe me, being military affiliated, I know lots and lots of people for whom fighting over geography was a thing, for decades. 

[Blitzburggirl]

32 minutes ago, BTHodgeman said:

 

From the Royal Caribbean Guest Conduct Policy:

 

Ports of Call

Under age 18 must be accompanied by a parent or adult guardian.

 

Because he was leaving with someone 18+, RC must consider that person to be the 'adult guardian.'

 

However, another version of the Guest Conduct Policy (also directly from RC's website), specifies that only guests under 16 must be accompanied by a parent or guardian:

 

Ports of Call

Under age 16 must be accompanied by a parent or adult guardian.

 

Dannnnng. It's a moot point for us now (he's 18, you know, an adult in all but LMAO) but I just couldn't believe they let him leave the ship with his friend!

[SarahD112]

Interesting that 18 is an adult, but you need to be accompanied by someone 21+ to sail. 🤔

[brillohead]

15 hours ago, HalfHand said:

 

Seriously?

 

Let me make this more clear for you. This isn't speculation on my part. When my daughter was 19 my wife had to have written permission FROM ME to take our daughter to the Bahamas.

 

My daughter is NOT special needs.

 

The problem is you think 18 is some magic number. I'm telling you with demonstrated facts that you are incorrect. I can't believe you have the gall to sit here and tell me my lawyer, and the judge presiding over the details of the custody of my daughter were wrong.

 

I suggest you drop out of this discussion, you really are starting to sound deranged.

The thing is, 18 really IS a magic number in the USA.  What is deranged is the fact that you don't understand that.

 

I challenge you to find ANYTHING on any governmental website that discusses having parental permission to leave the country for someone age 18 or over.  

You won't find it, because it's NOT A THING in this country.  You'll find all kinds of comments about MINORS leaving the country, but an 18yo is not a minor, and they can do whatever they want with whomever they want, within the confines of the law.  

I'm sorry that you don't understand this concept, but it's a pretty plain one.  I can explain it to you, but I can't force you to understand it.  

Maybe if you go looking for "parental permission to leave the country over the age of 18" you'll discover for yourself that I'm telling the truth -- there is no such paperwork, because an 18yo is an adult and is allowed to leave the country of their own volition, regardless of what their parents want them to do.

 

 

[brillohead]

15 hours ago, Blitzburggirl said:

We took my son (17 at the time) and his friend (18 at the time) last April.

 

It was Norwegian, but no- we didn't need anything special. 

 

The only thing I haven't seen said anywhere is... I was appalled that my 17 year old son was allowed to disembark in Nassau with only his 18 year old friend?!!?!?!?!? So if you're not ok with that, be aware it's a possibility. I didn't even know that it could happen as my son was a minor- so we never discussed it. 

With Royal, my experience has been both ways.

When in San Juan, my 18yo son was finally able to leave the ship with his 16yo girlfriend only after he advocated for himself and showed them, several times, that he was listed (as was I) on the notarized permission slip that her mother had signed.  The security people kept asking him "where is Brillohead?" and my son kept pointing out that it didn't matter where Brillohead was, because the paperwork ALSO listed SonofBrillohead as having permission to supervise the 16yo for the full itinerary.  Getting off in Labadee, they didn't even ask to look at the paperwork and let them both off with no problem.

Prior to turning 18yo himself, my son was able to leave the ship with a family friend who didn't have any "permission paperwork" whatsoever... he just said, "I'm with him, he's my uncle" when the computer flagged him as being a minor.   Another cruise, he chatted up some people in the line that he'd met on board and they agreed to let him leave in their family group -- nobody even questioned it when the computer dinged him as a minor, because he was in the middle of a family of other teens with adults.  (For the record, I knew that my son was getting off the ship without me in each case -- he never left the ship without my knowledge or permission.  He just wanted to debark sooner than I did both mornings.  If he'd been denied debarkation, he would have come gotten me in the room, I would have accompanied him to the security point, dinged him off the ship, then gone back to the room alone.) 

I have cruised twice now with my son's minor-aged girlfriend, and while I always had a signed and notarized permission letter from her mother each time, I was never once asked to show it -- not when checking in, not when debarking at ports of call, not at customs/border patrol.  We look nothing alike and have different last names, but nobody batted an eye at the fact that I was leaving the country with a beautiful teen girl who had no indication of being related to me.

[mayleeman]

@brillohead @HalfHand  Maybe the key in your dispute is the differences between parental obligations and restrictions, that may extend for years after majority is reached, and the legal rights of offspring when reaching the several levels of adulthood.

 

@HalfHand  I cannot tell from your post if an actual dispute (over your ex taking your 19 year old daughter out of the country without your permission) reached a judge, or if the judge merely approved such a provision in a proposed custody order submitted by your lawyer.  I do know that judges can impose conditions on divorcing parents that have nothing to do with the kid's rights. And that provision does not restrict your daughter from leaving if she wants to, unless you left that out. Were the judge's order to apply directly to her right to travel, your daughter likely have been able to get an injunction or declaratory judgment against its enforcement. In addition, judges often make rulings that extend beyond their authority, and this could well be the case here. (It would be interesting from a retired judge's perspective to see the wording of the actual provision.)

[mjkacmom]

My then 14 and 16 year olds got off in Nassau without us.

[Blitzburggirl]

5 hours ago, mayleeman said:

@brillohead @HalfHand  Maybe the key in your dispute is the differences between parental obligations and restrictions, that may extend for years after majority is reached, and the legal rights of offspring when reaching the several levels of adulthood.

 

@HalfHand  I cannot tell from your post if an actual dispute (over your ex taking your 19 year old daughter out of the country without your permission) reached a judge, or if the judge merely approved such a provision in a proposed custody order submitted by your lawyer.  I do know that judges can impose conditions on divorcing parents that have nothing to do with the kid's rights. And that provision does not restrict your daughter from leaving if she wants to, unless you left that out. Were the judge's order to apply directly to her right to travel, your daughter likely have been able to get an injunction or declaratory judgment against its enforcement. In addition, judges often make rulings that extend beyond their authority, and this could well be the case here. (It would be interesting from a retired judge's perspective to see the wording of the actual provision.)

My ex husband was not allowed to take his son (4ish-10ish at the time) out of the county. His ex wife was "afraid he'd take their son and leave the country with him." The fact the man shirked parenting with 3 wives didn't occur to her that he would want to be bothered.. plus he was in the military, where was he going to go? LOL Truthfully, she did every thing she could to make things hard for him to see their son.

 

Anyway, turns out that even though my ex couldn't take the kid out of the county (and I do mean county, not country) anyone else could. Crazy. But, that said, this was while the child was wayyyyy under 18,  but it is an example of a condition imposed.

 

Edited to add: to attempt to put my comments back on topic... had I left the ex at home, picked the kid up, which I was allowed to do, and driven to a cruise port, the chances of me being stopped boarding with him were likely next to 0. These are button pushers, not legal experts on international custody law and intricacies of state law.

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Blitzburggirl
added

[brillohead]

52 minutes ago, Blitzburggirl said:

My ex husband was not allowed to take his son (4ish-10ish at the time) out of the county.

Such conditions are relatively common with actual MINOR CHILDREN where issues of custody / kidnapping are a concern. 

However, there is no such thing as parental permission for an adult to travel, as was being claimed here.

[Blitzburggirl]

46 minutes ago, brillohead said:

Such conditions are relatively common with actual MINOR CHILDREN where issues of custody / kidnapping are a concern. 

However, there is no such thing as parental permission for an adult to travel, as was being claimed here.

Yes dear, I was agreeing with you.