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Toddler Death Law Suit Update

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I’m sure no one thinks he hurt the child intentionally, but he does need to admit the truth that he knew the window was open and that he made a poor decision to hold her out the window. Blaming the cruise line for his poor decision is so messed up. Royal Caribbean has really risen above the fray in handling this case, and I hope they are vindicated in court with this newly released evidence. 

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accident or not still extremely sad. I can not imagine the pain of this family. That said I can not imagine why any one would think it's ok to let any child bang on glass. Yes I understand she did it at hockey games but I have seen too many stories on the news of children dieing after falling from second story windows or higher. And it always makes me wonder.  Just pray they find some peace.  Just my opinion this is not Royal's fault. She was held out over the railing , railings are there to keep you on the safe side. Sadly it is a lesson for others. This poor man has to live with this the rest of his life.

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25 minutes ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

 Royal Caribbean has really risen above the fray in handling this case, and I hope they are vindicated in court with this newly released evidence. 

 

Unfortunately, it will not go to court to vindicate RC.  There will be a "closed" settlement agreement.

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13 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Unfortunately, it will not go to court to vindicate RC.  There will be a "closed" settlement agreement.

I doubt royal will even have to settle after this video. 

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1 hour ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Unfortunately, it will not go to court to vindicate RC.  There will be a "closed" settlement agreement.

Royal has no reason to settle this case.  It will either be dismissed or go to court and RCI will win based on the evidence.  Settling would set a horrible precedent in this particular case and there's no reason to settle.

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1 hour ago, toxicfairy said:

accident or not still extremely sad. I can not imagine the pain of this family. That said I can not imagine why any one would think it's ok to let any child bang on glass. Yes I understand she did it at hockey games but I have seen too many stories on the news of children dieing after falling from second story windows or higher. And it always makes me wonder.  Just pray they find some peace.  Just my opinion this is not Royal's fault. She was held out over the railing , railings are there to keep you on the safe side. Sadly it is a lesson for others. This poor man has to live with this the rest of his life.

This "poor man" who no one here knows lied to cover his butt.  He's responsible and I think people forget that because none of us know him, can't begin to know what he's really thinking.  For all we know, he's not a nice person.  People do stupid, irresponsible things all the time, but they have to be held responsible for the outcome.  I don't really feel sorry for him, especially now that everything has come out showing he's made up his defense and put that ahead of her life.  It really doesn't matter how bad he may or may not feel, what he did was wrong and he needs to take responsibility, which he has not done.

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1 hour ago, Palmetto Pilot said:

I doubt royal will even have to settle after this video. 

I agree.

We watched the video and it totally vindicates Royal of any blame.

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1 hour ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Unfortunately, it will not go to court to vindicate RC.  There will be a "closed" settlement agreement.

No settlement, see my above post, Royal has filed a motion to have the civil case dismissed. 

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2 hours ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Unfortunately, it will not go to court to vindicate RC.  There will be a "closed" settlement agreement.

I don’t think so in this case, it is pretty clear that RCL is not to blame.

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6 hours ago, BND said:

  The parents said it was in a child's play area, which is not true either.  They thought the court of public opinion would help them.  What they didn't count on was how many cameras are on a ship in public spaces.

This is what bugged me - early reports made it sound like the child was in a children only area instead of a part of the ship where many people go. Lots of places on the ship require caution. To describe the accident as a children's area is very misleading.

Edited by lupaglupa

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I have been on Royal Caribbean ships a few times and on (a ship I have been on)  Radiance of the Seas for example they do have windows that open. I had always suspected from the beginning that he had to know the window was open. These are heavily tinted windows and even for an alleged colour blind person the difference in the amount of light coming into your eyes would have been noticeable.

 

I have always felt sorry for what Royal Caribbean had to endure in the media that it was their fault, they are not safe when it is further from the truth.

 

This grandfather decided to break all the rules. No warning sign would have prevented him and he would not have even looked at it. You cannot warn against idiotic behaviour. The cruise lines make it 100% clear do not sit on, lean over or put children on guard rails. He broke the number one rule. If there had been a window there what was he hoping to achieve by standing a not fully developed child on a guard rail who does not have a full sense of balance. It would have been inevitable that she would have slipped off that rail and smashed her face on the glass regardless. Then there is not to mention the disruptive behaviour it would have had on other passengers. Why encourage children to bang on glass on a ship, has he no consideration for the peace and quiet of other passengers.

 

I have viewed all the videos and agree with Royal Caribbean. They have suffered so much negative press out of all of this and it was not even their fault in the slightest. They were nothing but sympathetic and gracious in the beginning and maintained a dignified silence about the mans guilt in all of this.

 

That family had the opportunity to walk away. Instead they tried to push it and seek compensation and had Royal Caribbeans name trashed in the press. Now look where it has gotten them.

 

Its a sad incident but clearly this man was unfit to be caring for children. If he was not drunk or under the influence of any hallucinogenic substance then perhaps he has a form of dementia or brain injury that he has not been diagnosed with yet. This is certainly not normal human behaviour what he did.

 

I have been on a family cruise with my niece and nephews and would never even dream of putting them in that position and made every effort to keep them from climbing on anything.

 

I am with Royal Caribbean on this one.

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3 hours ago, BND said:

This "poor man" who no one here knows lied to cover his butt.  He's responsible and I think people forget that because none of us know him, can't begin to know what he's really thinking.  For all we know, he's not a nice person.  People do stupid, irresponsible things all the time, but they have to be held responsible for the outcome.  I don't really feel sorry for him, especially now that everything has come out showing he's made up his defense and put that ahead of her life.  It really doesn't matter how bad he may or may not feel, what he did was wrong and he needs to take responsibility, which he has not done.

I feel sad for the family. But you are correct. I wasn't there and only he knows what happened and why. It doesn't seem to have been a true accident but we'll never know. Part of me wonders if he was looking for a law suit. I know that sounds sick but there are sick people in the world. I feel like there is sooooo much more to this story that we haven't heard.

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I embarked on the Freedom of the Seas on the very next voyage after that one.  I was pleased to see that the windows were still in a mixed state of open and closed as usual.  By the way...this window was located right next to the bar in the "Children's play area."  There was no additional signage posted or any other evidence that the tragedy had happened.  It is clear that the GF knew exactly what he was doing based on the two videos which were released.

 

Something that has never been pointed out before is this...millions upon millions of people, including young children, have cruised on ships similar to the Freedom and this has never happened before.  That makes a very strong case that the circumstances were beyond extraordinary which led to the child falling.  That being that an irresponsible adult dangled her out the window and dropped her.  I am not saying he dropped her on purpose, but he did hold her out the window on purpose.  I also think that if the family had not hired an attorney and threatened a lawsuit, the GF would not have been charged.


Just my 2 cents.

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2 minutes ago, Wheels87 said:

I embarked on the Freedom of the Seas on the very next voyage after that one.  I was pleased to see that the windows were still in a mixed state of open and closed as usual.  By the way...this window was located right next to the bar in the "Children's play area."  There was no additional signage posted or any other evidence that the tragedy had happened.  It is clear that the GF knew exactly what he was doing based on the two videos which were released.

 

Something that has never been pointed out before is this...millions upon millions of people, including young children, have cruised on ships similar to the Freedom and this has never happened before.  That makes a very strong case that the circumstances were beyond extraordinary which led to the child falling.  That being that an irresponsible adult dangled her out the window and dropped her.  I am not saying he dropped her on purpose, but he did hold her out the window on purpose.  I also think that if the family had not hired an attorney and threatened a lawsuit, the GF would not have been charged.


Just my 2 cents.

Agree. Have seen Royal windows open for over 32yrs, never an issue until now...

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I was doing a little looking on-line and found the “WRONGFUL DEATH COMPLAINT AND DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL”, that was filed by the families lawyers. Interesting read, considering frequent cruisers are very familiar with RC ships and can question their claims. 
 

 

https://www.lipcon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/DE-1-Wrongful-Death-Complaint.pdf

 

Many things in it show how the lawyers are grasping but #22 makes me shake my head.

 

22. While some who are uninformed may initially characterize this type of incident as a “freak accident,” it is, in fact, quite common. In fact, this type of risk was, at one time, a common enough hazard that there were numerous industry standards put in place to prevent this very type of incident. Yet, at all times material hereto, the middle row of the glass wall aboard the vessel violated national and international codes, standards, guidelines, and recommendations applicable to windows, including, but not limited to, industry standards set forth by the ASTM International1 (“ASTM”), other cruise lines, and other cruise ships owned and operated by Defendant itself.


 

ASTM set standards for buildings on American soil. What other cruise lines do, is not an industry dry land standard.  They also state that RC newest ships do not have windows that open beside the kids water park.  We all know the Harmony and Symphony have the same windows that open beside the “water park”, and they are newer than Anthem. 

 

I guess you can read it for yourself and form your own opinions.  I wish @chengkp75 would chime in on Maritime Standards to which they speak of. Perhaps he can help clarify on the construction aspect and standards. 
 

The following in italics are excerpts from pages 8-14 of their Wrongful Death Complaint. 
 

 

31. At all times material hereto, Defendant knew or should have known of the industry standard set forth by other cruise lines, including, but not limited to, Carnival and NCL, yet Defendant’s vessel was not in compliance with such standards.

 

 Industry Standard – Defendant’s Other Vessels

32. Notably, Defendant’s newer vessels do comply with the foregoing industry standards by having glass panes that do not open in the same or similar water park area for children. For instance, as depicted below, the glass panes near the water park aboard the Anthem of the Seas do not open at all:

 

33. The fact that Defendant’s newer vessels comply with industry standards on windows, including the Anthem of the Seas, serves as evidence that Defendant knew or should have known of the foregoing industry standards set forth by the ASTM and/or other cruise lines.

 

 

EDIT TO ADD:  when Jim Walker says the following you know it’s a tough case. 
 

But Miami-based maritime lawyer Jim Walker says proving negligence won’t be an easy feat for the family.
“In order for a cruise line to be legally liable for this child’s death, the family’s lawyer must prove that the cruise line acted unreasonably and that the cruise line knew or should have known of the specific danger on its ship,” he told news.com.au.
“This will be an exceedingly difficult burden for the lawyer to meet in this very sad and tragic set of circumstances.
“Without evidence (prior incidents or proof that the cruise line knew of a dangerous condition on the cruise ship) the chances are slim that the court (if suit is filed) would permit this case to proceed to a jury trial,” he added.

 

 

I think if RC started to bolt all these styles of windows shut, or add safety signs they would have shown that they thought they were dangerous.  None of these sliding windows have been changed since this unfortunate incident. 

Edited by A&L_Ont

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33 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

I was doing a little looking on-line and found the “WRONGFUL DEATH COMPLAINT AND DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL”, that was filed by the families lawyers. Interesting read, considering frequent cruisers are very familiar with RC ships and can question their claims. 

 

I didn't read the complaint, but I'm sure they conveniently "forgot" to include this excerpt from the Passenger Code of Conduct that the parents and GF agreed to when they booked the cruise:

 

Unsafe Behavior Sitting, standing, lying or climbing on, over or across any exterior or interior railings or other protective barriers, or tampering with ship’s equipment, facilities or systems designed for guest safety is not permitted.

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My heart goes out to her parents, I can't even imagine their horror and grief.

 

However, with regards to this incident, I tend to look at what would have happened if it wasn't the grandfather that dropped her.  Their grief has clearly clouded what their professional reactions would be if they weren't directly involved.  If it was a nanny or a friend, I don't believe the family would be as aggressive with a lawsuit against Royal and would support the PR charges for accountability.  Their blame would be directed at the person who dropped her, their negligent actions and not at the open window on the ship.

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39 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

 

I didn't read the complaint, but I'm sure they conveniently "forgot" to include this excerpt from the Passenger Code of Conduct that the parents and GF agreed to when they booked the cruise:

 

Unsafe Behavior Sitting, standing, lying or climbing on, over or across any exterior or interior railings or other protective barriers, or tampering with ship’s equipment, facilities or systems designed for guest safety is not permitted.


Yes, you make a great point.
 

In my reading I also found out that besides the mother being a DA, the husband is a police officer. My wife thought the GF also was a retired officer but it could not find it anywhere.  I’m not sure what I am saying, but one would think that they should know accidents happen, or maybe they want to make things safer, or they could be in denial.  Some might also say looking for a payoff for this unfortunate situation.
 

Whatever the case, they have suffered a great loss and will have to reflect internally  upon the larger meaning of life.  It seems as though they have to make important decisions individually as well as together as a family. 

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I would have more sympathy for the family if they hadn't lied from the beginning in an effort to turn this into a money grab.  As soon as this happened they immediately contacted lawyers and the media and then filed it up with a lawsuit.  Now that the video has been released, everyone is seeing what many of us suspected last summer - the grandfather was careless and knew the window was open.  If anything, the charge should be upgraded to murder.

Edited by lovemylab

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I watched the video. What on earth was that grandfather thinking? WHY would he hang her out of that window?

He's an idiot and they are all liars, looking for an easy payout at that child's expense. Absolutely disgusting!

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13 minutes ago, HOSKI said:

I just saw a video from another angle than the first one I saw and I am surprised how clear it shows him lifting her out the window.  Wow, I could not even imagine someone doing that.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/royal-caribbean-says-video-shows-081943671.html

 


The video won’t play in Canada, but I don’t need to see it.  Still pics were enough.  It sounds really hard on my part, but I’d say that RC could be changed with GF in the article quote below and they would have their answer.

 

"Royal Caribbean played a major role in the death of our child. There is no reason for this ship to have walls of glass surrounding the 11th floor with portions that open," Chloe's mother, Kim Wiegand, said at a press conference announcing the lawsuit. "... We believe that filing a lawsuit against the cruise line sends a message to them that they were wrong."

 

 

I wonder if they don’t drop their case would RC have a counter suit of some description?

 

Edited by A&L_Ont

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There is a handrail at the appropriate height so even a blind person would know not to lean over, climb over or dangle a 18 month over . Charge should be upgraded to fit the crime .

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