Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[mjkacmom]

15 minutes ago, tinkertwo said:

Did anyone notice that Gofund me page was set up by someone in Charlotte, NC?  Do they have family there?  I wonder if it is in fact not a legit funding page.  Sad if someone would use this for personal gain.  

 

15 minutes ago, tinkertwo said:

Did anyone notice that Gofund me page was set up by someone in Charlotte, NC?  Do they have family there?  I wonder if it is in fact not a legit funding page.  Sad if someone would use this for personal gain.  

That’s a real problem with these pages, I’m assuming it’s legit because fraudulent ones are usually shut down pretty fast, it’s important to verify that the funds are going where it says they are going.

[Midwestgal]

22 hours ago, JennyB1977 said:

Knowing that Kim Wiegand is an attorney (as of 2018 she was a Deputy Prosecutor in St. Joseph County IN), I would assume she had the contract drawn up such that they wouldn't owe any fees. However, without seeing the agreement it's impossible to know.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Midwestgal
Quote mistake

[Midwestgal]

There are no fees the family is needing to pay for the lawsuit. The lawyers will get a percent of what they are awarded and other fees will come out of that money also, things like expert witness and such . 
The GF will definitely have to come up with money for his defense as these are two different things. Don’t be surprised if he is found innocent that he then sues RC for mental stress and loss. 
I know someone argued to the fact when I said the family was probably approached by many law firms before they even got home wanting to jump on the case .

they are call ambulance chasers for a reason. 

[brillohead]

On 2/19/2020 at 4:33 PM, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Not saying an innocent party should pick up the tab.  But put yourself in the family's shoes... you've hired this lawyer on the spur of the moment and let him file the lawsuit.  If (again, assuming other posters are right) you now decide to drop the case, you need to pay lawyer fees, or if you go ahead with the case and lose, you don't owe him anything (neither does RCI).  What would you do? 

Important to note that even though Winkleman was speaking on behalf of the family almost immediately, the actual lawsuit didn't get filed for several months after Chloe's death.  

[brillohead]

On 2/19/2020 at 4:34 PM, JennyB1977 said:

Keep in mind two different cases:

1) Criminal Defense attorney (Jose Perez) hired to defend Anello against the Negligent Homicide charge

2) The firm (Winkleman) hired to go after RCCL. That firm is Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman, P.A. From their website "If you are struggling with the aftermath of a complicated offshore injury, death or accident, let us give you a free case evaluation to determine if you may be entitled to compensation for your medical care, pain, suffering and more. We work exclusively on a contingency fee basis. This means you never pay us a penny unless we make a successful recovery on your behalf." - https://www.lipcon.com/admiralty-maritime-lawyer/

It would depend on the specific verbiage of the contract (which of course Chloe's mother would have known at the time she hired the attorney), but often times there is a difference between "lawyer fees" and "lawyer expenses".  

While you may not owe any lawyer fees (the "billable hours" charged for the attorney's time) if the case is lost or dropped, you may still be on the hook for "expenses" that the ambulance-chaser incurred during the course of the case -- filing fees in court, long distance phone calls, travel expenses (like the trip to take measurements and fake re-enact the scene at the railing to show that the grandfather couldn't possibly reach the window that everyone else on the ship can easily reach), costs to hire experts to do research or testify, etc.

But I still can't give Chloe's parents any benefit of the doubt when it comes to allowing this lawsuit to have been filed.  Even if they didn't spend enough time on the pool deck to recall what the windows looked like, a simple Google search shows a bazillion photos and videos of the pool deck on a Royal Caribbean ship -- it would have been obvious from even a cursory glance that:

 

• this wasn't in a children's play area,
• it wasn't impossible (or even the slightest bit difficult!!!) for Chloe to reach the glass at floor level
• it wasn't necessary to lift Chloe over and past the handrail
• Anello could easily reach the window without even leaning over the railing
• there was no way for Chloe to fall out the window unless she was being held at the window's very edge (or beyond) in the first place
• even a blind/deaf/dumb vegetable would have been able to tell from fifty feet away that the window was open

 

[brillohead]

2 hours ago, Midwestgal said:

The GF will definitely have to come up with money for his defense as these are two different things. Don’t be surprised if he is found innocent that he then sues RC for mental stress and loss. 

Royal Caribbean didn't charge him with negligent homicide -- that was the Puerto Rican government.  He'd have to sue the prosecuting attorney's office (and he wouldn't have a leg to stand on). 

[brillohead]

As for the websites raising money, I've seen one for Chloe's family and another for Anello's legal expenses / travel / etc.  Two different issues, two different pages.

When it comes to the cost of a funeral, it's very much like the cost of cruising.  You can spend Big Bucks on a fancy Star Class suite, or you can spend Modest Bucks on an inside room.  Both people are on a cruise and have shelter and transportation included, it's just a difference in how cushy the facilities are and what genie-services are included.  

Being cremated in a cardboard coffin with nothing else costs roughly $1,000 -- that's an inside room on a cruise ship. 

On the other end of the funeral spectrum, you can have a fancy $5,000 (or more) casket with another $5,000-$10,000 (or more) spent on having viewing/visitation at the funeral home in the days before the service, huge service at the funeral home with a PowerPoint slideshow of photos, music, paper keepsake programs printed up, transportation to a church for a service there, funeral procession to the cemetery for another service there, plus the cost to purchase the burial plot, the vault, the cost to actually dig open the plot, and the cost of a fancy marble headstone that is custom carved.

 

If you go all-out with all the bells and whistles possible, you can easily blow $25K for a Star Class Suite funeral experience (but you're still just as dead as the person with the $1,000 cremation).  

[Midwestgal]

1 hour ago, brillohead said:

Royal Caribbean didn't charge him with negligent homicide -- that was the Puerto Rican government.  He'd have to sue the prosecuting attorney's office (and he wouldn't have a leg to stand on). 

Or if he’s found innocent this opens up for him to file a suit against RC.if he’s found guilty he wouldn’t have much to stand on.

[brillohead]

1 minute ago, Midwestgal said:

Or if he’s found innocent this opens up for him to file a suit against RC.if he’s found guilty he wouldn’t have much to stand on.

 

Based on what?  

The parents are suing RCI for the death of their daughter... what basis would Anello have for filing a suit against RCI?  It's not Royal's fault that the Puerto Rican officials charged him with a crime?????

[Midwestgal]

19 minutes ago, brillohead said:

 

Based on what?  

The parents are suing RCI for the death of their daughter... what basis would Anello have for filing a suit against RCI?  It's not Royal's fault that the Puerto Rican officials charged him with a crime?????

Emotional pain and suffering. It’s a thing. 
A spouse can file a suit against the same company their spouse sued based on thier pain and suffering. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Midwestgal

[tinkertwo]

4 hours ago, Midwestgal said:

There are no fees the family is needing to pay for the lawsuit. The lawyers will get a percent of what they are awarded and other fees will come out of that money also, things like expert witness and such . 
The GF will definitely have to come up with money for his defense as these are two different things. Don’t be surprised if he is found innocent that he then sues RC for mental stress and loss. 
I know someone argued to the fact when I said the family was probably approached by many law firms before they even got home wanting to jump on the case .

they are call ambulance chasers for a reason. 

I think what was being said was if they DROP the lawsuit then the family would probably have to come up with the cost of legal fees.  It is pretty well known that the lawyers expect a large chunk of what they pull in and that would pay for their time but if the couple drop the suit then the lawyers would be out that expense and probably bill the clients for wasting their time.  

[brillohead]

3 minutes ago, Midwestgal said:

Emotional pain and suffering. It’s a thing. 
A spouse can file a suit against the same company their spouse sued based on thier pain and suffering. 

The step-grandfather wouldn't have a case against Royal.  Royal didn't do anything to him.  

 

 

[Midwestgal]

26 minutes ago, brillohead said:

The step-grandfather wouldn't have a case against Royal.  Royal didn't do anything to him.  

 

 

If Royal is found negligent in the parents case and he is found innocent he does have a case against RC . He is directly involved , he was the one with her. He will sue for pain and emotional suffering because Royal was negligent in him keeping her safe. 
let’s just see how it plays out but a suit by him is not a stretch. 
im not saying this will happen but it’s definitely possible 
 

how do people sue when their loved one get caught in and dies  in a chimney stack trying to burglarize a place?  Lawsuits can be ridiculous and unfair. 
 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Midwestgal

[chengkp75]

31 minutes ago, Midwestgal said:

Emotional pain and suffering. It’s a thing. 
A spouse can file a suit against the same company their spouse sued based on thier pain and suffering. 

While pain and suffering is a thing, the Death on the High Seas Act, which is what most likely applies in this case, does not allow compensation for pain and suffering.  It mainly allows recompense for potential lost earnings over the life of the deceased, but the grandfather would have no claim on these.

Edited February 21, 2020 by chengkp75

[HBE4]

10 hours ago, suesnake2002 said:

Never thought I'd be posting to this thread. But here it goes.

When you have a tragedy in life, it is your family,church,friends who come to your aid. Whether it be spiritual,moral support, or financial. People you know and love and who love you back will set up fundraisers. Whether it is as simple as a bake sale or a big blow out dinner and chinese auction. 

The fact that you have to ask strangers for money says you lack these people in your life. And I'm sorry it also says something about you. If you don't give of yourself to others, chances are no one is gonna give to you. 

 

I'm sure that is true in many situations.  But it's also an easy to use, modern, very convenient way to raise money from far-flung family, friends, coworkers,  friends of coworkers,  neighbors and casual acquaintances. Certainty better than relying on old fashioned word of mouth or people going door to door.  

 

And since the potential for being scammed is real, I'd only donate to people I actually know.

 

[Midwestgal]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While pain and suffering is a thing, the Death on the High Seas Act, which is what most likely applies in this case, does not allow compensation for pain and suffering.  It mainly allows recompense for potential lost earnings over the life of the deceased, but the grandfather would have no claim on these.

Good to know. 
 

[HBE4]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

While pain and suffering is a thing, the Death on the High Seas Act, which is what most likely applies in this case, does not allow compensation for pain and suffering.  It mainly allows recompense for potential lost earnings over the life of the deceased, but the grandfather would have no claim on these.

 

As the death occurred while the ship was docked in port of a US territory, I thought the Death on the High Seas Act didn't apply in this case? I'm not doubting your knowledge, just seeking clarification.  Thanks.

 

FULL DISCLOSURE: I tend to drift in and out of this thread every few days so I have NOT read most of the 1,600 post over 64 pages. Apologies in advance if this was discussed in detail and settled already.

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, HBE4 said:

 

As the death occurred while the ship was docked in port of a US territory, I thought the Death on the High Seas Act didn't apply in this case? I'm not doubting your knowledge, just seeking clarification.  Thanks.

 

FULL DISCLOSURE: I tend to drift in and out of this thread every few days so I have NOT read most of the 1,600 post over 64 pages. Apologies in advance if this was discussed in detail and settled already.

As I pointed out a few pages back (don't blame you for not reading it all), jurisdiction is murky and I'm not an admiralty lawyer, and while the death occurred in Puerto Rico, what the parents are suing for is that RCI (on a foreign ship) did not provide the necessary "level of care" that is implicit with carriage on that ship.  DOHS may or may not apply, but I'm leaning towards it doing so, which is why a maritime law firm was retained.

[momofmab]

 

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

While pain and suffering is a thing, the Death on the High Seas Act, which is what most likely applies in this case, does not allow compensation for pain and suffering.  It mainly allows recompense for potential lost earnings over the life of the deceased, but the grandfather would have no claim on these.

 

 

Yes.  It's called "Loss of Consortium".

[momofmab]

Regarding the cost of Chloe's funeral - many funeral homes and other providers of funeral-related services will waive the fees associated with a funeral for a baby or young child.

[chengkp75]

15 minutes ago, momofmab said:

 

 

 

Yes.  It's called "Loss of Consortium".

Okay, did some checking, and DOHSA only applies outside of 3 miles from US shores, so it is moot in this case, but with regards to DOHSA claims:

 

"DOHSA allows the decedent’s spouse, parent, child, or dependent relative to recover for “pecuniary loss” sustained by those individuals. Pecuniary losses are damages that can be calculated with some degree of precision, such as loss of financial support from the decedent."

"Damages under the Act are extremely limited, and unlike most other wrongful death and survival provisions, DOHSA prohibits recovery of non-pecuniary damages. Non-pecuniary damages are damages such as the decedent’s pre-death pain and suffering, and loss of consortium suffered by the decedent’s spouse."

 

link to the quotes:

 

https://www.marineinjurylaw.com/claims-under-the-death-on-the-high-seas-act.html

Edited February 21, 2020 by chengkp75

[brillohead]

1 hour ago, momofmab said:

Yes.  It's called "Loss of Consortium".

 

Loss of consortium

Deprivation of the benefits of a family relationship (including affection and sexual relations) due to injuries caused by a tortfeasor.  The spouse of someone injured or killed in an accident can sue for damages based on loss of consortium.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

If Anello were married to Chloe, we'd have a whole different set of charges going on!
 

[KelSny1011]

A good friend of mine was mauled by a pitbull on a large fast food chain property.  Without getting into specifics he was advised to sue the large fast food chain as they knew this dog was dangerous as their own employees and other patrons were almost attacked by this dog prior.  While my friend was fighting this case his attorney was pro bono. However, he had to pay for any processing fees, therapy fees, hiring experts.  He also could not back out of the lawsuit bc he would be on the hook with expenses occurred to fight this large fast food chain.  He did end up winning his case however for the amount of money he got after it wasnt worth the fight.  That's why I brought up the "the family might be on the hook for expenses accumulated so far if they back out now".  I saw from my friends personal experience what happened to him. 

[BillOh]

15 hours ago, Midwestgal said:

Or if he’s found innocent this opens up for him to file a suit against RC.if he’s found guilty he wouldn’t have much to stand on.

That sounds logical, but in many places, guilt/innocence in a criminal case doesn't preclude a suit in civil court.  I was on a trial for a person hurt while running a red light. They sued the people they hit. 

[coffeebean]

6 hours ago, BillOh said:

That sounds logical, but in many places, guilt/innocence in a criminal case doesn't preclude a suit in civil court.  I was on a trial for a person hurt while running a red light. They sued the people they hit. 

Who won the case?