Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[Lionesss]

1 minute ago, grapau27 said:

What if all ships were made adult only because of Anellos actions and the family wrongly sueing RCI?

 

 

Yes that is a thought, but You and I know all too well that it will never happen on RCI.

 

Then when the first drunk falls, or whatever overboard they will ban drunks (lol).

 

After all the problem is not the alcohol (um window) the problem is in the person.

 

And by that I mean if a person drinks too much and gets hurt, the drinker is the problem.

 

I realize it is a bad analogy, but I am sure there are more to come.

 

Just saying.

 

Safe travels.

 

 

[grapau27]

11 minutes ago, Lionesss said:

 

 

Yes that is a thought, but You and I know all too well that it will never happen on RCI.

 

Then when the first drunk falls, or whatever overboard they will ban drunks (lol).

 

After all the problem is not the alcohol (um window) the problem is in the person.

 

And by that I mean if a person drinks too much and gets hurt, the drinker is the problem.

 

I realize it is a bad analogy, but I am sure there are more to come.

 

Just saying.

 

Safe travels.

 

 

I agree that's why I said in a previous post that I would have no problem signing a disclaimer saying we sail at our own risk.

Everyone should be made to sign a disclaimer as a condition of sailing then idiots like Anello are responsible for their own actions not the cruiseline.

Edited February 28, 2020 by grapau27

[TNcruising02]

2 hours ago, grapau27 said:

What if all ships were made adult only because of Anellos actions and the family succeeding in wrongly sueing RCI?

 

In this case, it wasn't even the child who was the problem.  It was the adult.  Chloe was perfectly safe from falling out of the window until an adult put her there.

Edited February 28, 2020 by TNcruising02

[grapau27]

25 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

In this case, it wasn't even the child who was the problem.  It was the adult.  Chloe was perfectly safe from falling out of the window until an adult put her there.

Hopefully the judge/Jury see it that way and throw the suit out and give Anello a proper sentence.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

2 hours ago, grapau27 said:

Hopefully the judge/Jury see it that way and throw the suit out and give Anello a proper sentence.

Anello did a plea deal.  He's going to get probation.  

[grapau27]

1 minute ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Anello did a plea deal.  He's going to get probation.  

A light sentence considering he was responsible for Chloe's death.

[atgood]

Haven’t had the chance to keep up with this thread lately.  
 

From RCI’s response to motion to dismiss video filing, “The video provided by Plaintiffs’ counsel  (to a national new organization, CBS news) showed Mr. Anello looking out  the window for about a second (when in reality he looked  out for eight seconds) and placing Chloe over railing for about 5 seconds (when in reality it was 34 seconds).”

 

Why else would a plaintiff alter footage, but to try to get ahead of the actual facts to erroneously sway the public’s opinion in hopes of a financial settlement?  I hope RCI doesn’t settle.  
 

Clearly the GF really messed up and is at fault.  Whether he dropped her intentionally or accidentally we will never know. 

[BND]

5 hours ago, grapau27 said:

I agree that's why I said in a previous post that I would have no problem signing a disclaimer saying we sail at our own risk.

Everyone should be made to sign a disclaimer as a condition of sailing then idiots like Anello are responsible for their own actions not the cruiseline.

Basically you do sign an agreement to follow the guest policies, but that doesn't stop people from suing (or complaining).  Waivers don't hold up in civil court unfortunately.  They can have you sign anything and everything stating you sail at your own risk, but it can't stop you from suing.

[grapau27]

3 minutes ago, BND said:

Basically you do sign an agreement to follow the guest policies, but that doesn't stop people from suing (or complaining).  Waivers don't hold up in civil court unfortunately.  They can have you sign anything and everything stating you sail at your own risk, but it can't stop you from suing.

We would feel uncomfortable suing anyone.

In certain circumstances people are justified in suing but in this case Anello is the one to sue and I find it incredible that the family are supporting Anello and suing RCI especially knowing the jobs they do and the damning video evidence against Anello.

[BND]

Just now, grapau27 said:

We would feel uncomfortable suing anyone.

In certain circumstances people are justified in suing but in this case Anello is the one to sue and I find it incredible that the family are supporting Anello and suing RCI especially knowing the jobs they do and the damning video evidence against Anello.

Oh, us too, but it won't stop anyone.  There is such an overwhelming consensus about this case, but juries can and have felt sorry enough to side with someone like that because as I've said before, there are people who hate the big bad corporations.  They kind of forget that corporations are made up of people too.  I do wish RCI would countersue.

[grapau27]

31 minutes ago, BND said:

Oh, us too, but it won't stop anyone.  There is such an overwhelming consensus about this case, but juries can and have felt sorry enough to side with someone like that because as I've said before, there are people who hate the big bad corporations.  They kind of forget that corporations are made up of people too.  I do wish RCI would countersue.

I would think the fact it was a child and the manner of how it happened as we all and hopefully the judge/jury will see on the video they will see through Anellos lies.

I felt sorry initially for the mam and dad but when they decided to go after RCI and not Anello my opinion of them dropped dramatically.

[TNcruising02]

18 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

I would think the fact it was a child and the manner of how it happened as we all and hopefully the judge/jury will see on the video they will see through Anellos lies.

I felt sorry initially for the mam and dad but when they decided to go after RCI and not Anello my opinion of them dropped dramatically.

I felt very sorry for all involved until I found out they lied.  Anello lied when he claimed he didn't know a window was open just inches from his face.  The parents' attorney lied when he claimed that it was a wall of glass and there was no way to know a window was there. Also, he had people believe that Anello only held Chloe up for a few seconds.  The attorney is spinning everything and I have no sympathy for people who intentionally mislead for a profit.  It's really disgusting.

[grapau27]

4 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I felt very sorry for all involved until I found out they lied.  Anello lied when he claimed he didn't know a window was open just inches from his face.  The parents' attorney lied when he claimed that it was a wall of glass and there was no way to know a window was there. Also, he had people believe that Anello only held Chloe up for a few seconds.  The attorney is spinning everything and I have no sympathy for people who intentionally mislead for a profit.  It's really disgusting.

I absolutely agree.

Our prayers are for Chloe.

[Two Wheels Only]

34 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I felt very sorry for all involved until I found out they lied.  Anello lied when he claimed he didn't know a window was open just inches from his face.  The parents' attorney lied when he claimed that it was a wall of glass and there was no way to know a window was there. Also, he had people believe that Anello only held Chloe up for a few seconds.  The attorney is spinning everything and I have no sympathy for people who intentionally mislead for a profit.  It's really disgusting.

 

People who have followed this since it happened have had an idea of the truth before any surveillance videos were leaked. We have watched as some people have been misled by Winkleman, Anello, the Wiegands, and any news source who sided with emotion instead of with the facts.

 

We (cruisers) will have more experience with ships than non-cruisers but we'll be labeled as "cheerleaders" if we don't blame RCCL.

 

Yes, it is extremely sad what happened to Chloe. People shouldn't allow their grief to blind them from the facts.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Two Wheels Only

[chengkp75]

In the plaintiffs' motion it keeps mentioning that the windows do not meet ASTM standards for window safety.  This is just another maritime injury lawyer attempting to apply US laws to foreign cruise ships.  RCI cruise ships are built according to DNV (Det Norske Veritas), the classification society, Rules for Steel Shipbuilding.  While DNV can, and does, accept ASTM standards in some areas (it is simpler for them to use an already approved, tested, and widely accepted standard), they are not required to, and if DNV's safety design engineers have a different viewpoint of window safety than ASTM, then they are free to formulate their own standards, or use standards developed by other standards organizations (ISO, Eurocodes, etc).  It requires a law to state that windows in the US must meet ASTM standards, since ASTM cannot force compliance on anyone.  And, since most US laws do not apply to foreign flag cruise ships, there could not be a law requiring adherence to ASTM, unless the IMO makes it part of SOLAS.

[rusty nut]

Were his actions malicious, ore merely a tragic accident? Ask yourself this; We now know that it's crystal clear that Anello Knew the window was open. I mean, it's clear, beyond any shadow of a doubt, simply by viewing the video. So, knowing the window was open, why would he lie? I can think of only one reason. 

[Bloodgem]

https://www.docdroid.net/IbpHQkj/wiegand-prelim-response-to-dismiss-3.pdf

 

On page 39 I hope they got the officer's permission to be photographed? 

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, rusty nut said:

Were his actions malicious, ore merely a tragic accident? Ask yourself this; We now know that it's crystal clear that Anello Knew the window was open. I mean, it's clear, beyond any shadow of a doubt, simply by viewing the video. So, knowing the window was open, why would he lie? I can think of only one reason. 

My opinion is that he was impaired in some way.  Then when he realized what he had done, he thought lying was his best option. I just can't see a sober person putting a child on a window ledge for 30 seconds.  I really can't even see an impaired person doing it.  I'm not sure what was going through his mind, but keeping Chloe safe wasn't one of his thoughts.  He probably didn't even think about the video camera capturing everything.  I really don't believe he intended to drop her.  He was reckless with her life.

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

In the plaintiffs' motion it keeps mentioning that the windows do not meet ASTM standards for window safety.  This is just another maritime injury lawyer attempting to apply US laws to foreign cruise ships.  RCI cruise ships are built according to DNV (Det Norske Veritas), the classification society, Rules for Steel Shipbuilding.  While DNV can, and does, accept ASTM standards in some areas (it is simpler for them to use an already approved, tested, and widely accepted standard), they are not required to, and if DNV's safety design engineers have a different viewpoint of window safety than ASTM, then they are free to formulate their own standards, or use standards developed by other standards organizations (ISO, Eurocodes, etc).  It requires a law to state that windows in the US must meet ASTM standards, since ASTM cannot force compliance on anyone.  And, since most US laws do not apply to foreign flag cruise ships, there could not be a law requiring adherence to ASTM, unless the IMO makes it part of SOLAS.

I surely hope RCIs defense team knows this and uses this to plead Royal's case. Winkelman has no shot.

[ATG]

I’m not familiar with how civil cases are tried.  Since RC is the defendant do they get to choose whether the case is tried in front of a jury or just a judge?  Or is that only in criminal cases?  

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, Bloodgem said:

https://www.docdroid.net/IbpHQkj/wiegand-prelim-response-to-dismiss-3.pdf

 

On page 39 I hope they got the officer's permission to be photographed? 

Why would they need to?

[Midwestgal]

After looking at the pictures it’s obvious to me that he wasn’t dangling her out the window but putting her up there and she must have lurched forward with him losing his grip and her falling out the window . No way he would be able to dangle her out the window. This is my opinion as some may disagree. Also funny the difference angles make .

 

[Cruiser_1977]

@Midwestgal To me whether he dangled her out the window, sat her on the windowsill, or balanced her on the railing doesn't matter. Once he picked her up off the floor and put her in any of those positions he was putting her in harms way. She was perfectly safe until he picked her up. I also believe that there is no way he stood at the railing for any amount of time and was unaware that the window is open. To me that's like floating in the middle of the ocean and telling me it's not wet. He already said he is going to plead guilty to negligent homicide so he is taking a level of responsibility. As for the civil suit, I don't see how the parents have a leg to stand on but I guess we just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Edited February 28, 2020 by JennyB1977

[S.A.M.J.R.]

2 hours ago, Bloodgem said:

https://www.docdroid.net/IbpHQkj/wiegand-prelim-response-to-dismiss-3.pdf

 

On page 39 I hope they got the officer's permission to be photographed? 

Doesn't matter.  There's no expectation of privacy where she is.  

[Midwestgal]

48 minutes ago, JennyB1977 said:

@Midwestgal To me whether he dangled her out the window, sat her on the windowsill, or balanced her on the railing doesn't matter. Once he picked her up off the floor and put her in any of those positions he was putting her in harms way. She was perfectly safe until he picked her up. I also believe that there is no way he stood at the railing for any amount of time and was unaware that the window is open. To me that's like floating in the middle of the ocean and telling me it's not wet. He already said he is going to plead guilty to negligent homicide so he is taking a level of responsibility. As for the civil suit, I don't see how the parents have a leg to stand on but I guess we just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Nowhere in my post did I say or even hint to it wasn’t 100% his fault or that they should get any money in a lawsuit. I was just saying he didn’t dangle her out the window as some have indicated. I couldn’t even begin to understand how he didn’t know the window was open unless he suffers from major short  term memory loss and I mean severe.

No need to bring the obvious to my attention.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Midwestgal