Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[Alter Ego]

6 minutes ago, SewMuch said:

People here are familiar with cruise ships, and know that it is not easy to accidently drop a child out a window unless you are doing something stupid. But what about the general public? Does anyone have any feedback from non-cruising friends who might believe the story that it is easy to fall out those windows?

I’m often on another forum that has discussed this.  There’s one particular poster (who was getting others worked up in agreement) about how easy it would be to fall overboard if roughhousing. She was convinced Royal was at fault, no matter what anyone who HAD been on a cruise ship told her (she was on one cruise many many years ago.) I haven’t seen her commenting since the video became more widely circulated.

[boscobeans]

The family layer is still being shown on media stating that Royal Caribbean is at fault claiming they should never have an open window in a children's play area.  Even after showing a still shot of the grandfather leaning out the window right next to the BAR.  Do you think ONE news reporter would point that out??  NOPE. NOT ONE.

[pokerguy90]

once the GF lifted his GC up.  all safety protocols, preventative measure the cruise line already had in place were deliberately and knowingly ignored by him.

 

He is 100% responsible for this tragedy.  Now they want a pay day.  Give me a break!!! 

 

[ReneeFLL]

On 1/17/2020 at 8:50 PM, MizDemeanor said:

Maybe the thing to consider is his to manage the air flow on the pool decks. Is it by Louvers or some other method? From my perspective in certain climates it’s necessary for cross breeze and air flow as much as possible. 
 

In this world Today we seem to be needing to be protecting ourselves from our own feeble and worst selves, so what can be engineered into the window wall system to allow for the ventilation needs and protection from openings at heights that can create deaths from heights at the same time.

 

Granted that there are many open decks on a ship with less restrictions and many scenarios for not climbing over balconies. 
 

Maybe it’s part of understanding what a cruise ship does and does not offer in terms of exterior barriers and as part of what is signed off on as part of the cruise contract for acceptance of on board responsibilities for yourself and minors. 
 

You really want them to change things for someone's stupidity? If people weren't stupid then things like this wouldn't happen. People need to take responsibility for their own actions and not have things changed because of it. You seriously think putting louvers up would be a good idea? Part of the joy of being on a ship is to be able to look out at the ocean with a nice unobstructed view and to feel the breeze.

[cruisingn09]

3 hours ago, JsMom2 said:

My heart goes out to this family, and to the grandfather.  I think he really does believe his story that he picked her up so she could "bang on the class."  I'm sure his brain has shut down when it comes to remembering the real story.  

 

The reality is that she was already AT the glass, when she was standing at his feet!  The photo the family released of her at the hockey game, showed her standing by herself at the glass. While we can't see exactly what she's doing in the cruise ship video, I think it's reasonable to think that she walked over to the glass, so she could bang on it.  So that's what she was probably doing at her grandfather's feet.  There would be no reason for her to ask him to "pick her up so she could bang on the glass."

 

While the grandfather was to blame for her death, the villain here is their lawyer.  Instead of giving the family time to process what had happened, and look at the evidence, he's filed a very public, very malicious lawsuit before Chloe's body had even been returned to the States.  

 

 

 

3 hours ago, twins_to_alaska said:

JsMom2... I thought that as well.. the hockey picture showed her on the ground banging on the glass and she was doing that on the ship... no reason to pick her up especially as the GF had put his upper body out of the window and there was no glass to bang on higher up.

There is a version of the grandfather’s explanation on why he lifted her to “bang on the glass.”  Watch and draw your own conclusions. IMO, an absurd “after story” because the public was asking the same question...why lift her up when she could bang on the glass without being lifted. Google David Bagnaud + Salvatore Anello then select the video that it 7:51 in length. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by cruisingn09

[jrljel]

I also suspect that the grandfather might have had too many drinks which would impair his thinking.  I have not heard anything in regards to that.  Anyone know?

[brillohead]

7 minutes ago, jrljel said:

I also suspect that the grandfather might have had too many drinks which would impair his thinking.  I have not heard anything in regards to that.  Anyone know?

Authorities did not believe alcohol was a factor.

 

[jrljel]

Thanks Brillohead.  I didn't read that.  Where did you see it?

[tonit964]

55 minutes ago, brillohead said:

Authorities did not believe alcohol was a factor.

 

Apparently, he refused a breathalyzer test.

[mitsugirly]

2 hours ago, brillohead said:

Authorities did not believe alcohol was a factor.

 

 

1 hour ago, jrljel said:

Thanks Brillohead.  I didn't read that.  Where did you see it?

 

1 hour ago, tonit964 said:

Apparently, he refused a breathalyzer test.

 

 

I hadn't read that either. Who reported this information? Just wondering.

 

 

Anyone see his interview? He still seems confused and changing stories.

 

Just my thoughts on the interview and looking at the video (copied and pasted from the other thread about this)

 

He said she was down at the bottom glass (to bang on the window like she does at the hockey games) so he bent down to do it and HE couldn't reach except for his fingertips....so he knew SHE couldn't reach either (which makes no sense because she would have been right at the bottom window underneath the handrail because there's no danger there and definitely been able to reach the glass). So that's when he decided he'd pick her up (video shows him being down there for about 4 seconds, which to me was long enough for him to bring her back away from the glass she was at and then under the handrail and lift her up).

 

Next when he was asked to show how he was holding her (interviewer asked if it was in a "bear hug" and moved his arms to represent that), then Anello agreed and did the same and states "from what I remember". 

 

He then said he was trying to knock on the glass himself (of course that meant you wouldn't have her in a bear hug with 2 arms holding on to her otherwise, how would you knock?) and said at that point he "was going to have to lean forward for her to reach it" then admits he only had 1 arm around her at that point. (He is seen in the video switching arms and holding her with 1 arm at a time)

 

He did say initially he blamed himself  but now "the more and more days go by" that he blames the cruise line.

 

Just watching the interview, I think he is cautious of what he is saying (of course probably advised by his counsel) and seems somewhat confused, maybe even easily influenced (by the interviewer asking a question and then suggesting the answer). I don't know. It's such a sad situation for everyone. I just think this story has changed so many times and the grandfather is so distraught and confused, maybe even blocking the tragic memory in his mind, that he just can't keep the story straight now. 😞

[brillohead]

I honestly don't recall where I read the "alcohol not a factor" part, but I remember it being mentioned in the early days.  It was likely one of the Spanish-language media reports that I read via Google Translate, as most of the early info was coming directly out of Puerto Rico.  

And I have to believe that if Royal had evidence that the grandfather had been drinking, it would have been included in this motion to dismiss.  Bar receipts and/or video of him drinking would have been easy enough to produce along with this video of him holding her out the window, and would be further evidence in Royal's favor. 

[Another_Critic]

16 minutes ago, brillohead said:

And I have to believe that if Royal had evidence that the grandfather had been drinking, it would have been included in this motion to dismiss.  Bar receipts and/or video of him drinking would have been easy enough to produce along with this video of him holding her out the window, and would be further evidence in Royal's favor. 

 

Royal blaming this on drinking would be bad for Royal, not good.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Another_Critic

[Hogbay]

6 hours ago, KelSny1011 said:

With the current video released, it's hard to use the "bagging on the glass" excuse now.

 

So next would if there is a "federal industry toddler safety standard" that RCI broke by having these glass-less windows?  To me that is the only viable thing this attorney and family have at this point.

 

Also, what will this new video play in the negligent homicide case against the GF? 

 

 

 

 

 

What excuse .? a federal bang on the glass clause ? What Federal industry safety standards.? What glass - less windows ? It's a ship so Maritime Law , there was a hand rail of correct height as to not be able to fall over with a window with tinted glass open for ventlation in a bar area serving alachol. The 0ne year old could not ask to be picked up and dangled over the handrail out a open window. and dropped. Children are to be supervised at all times by a responsible adult, this did not happen.  

[brillohead]

8 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Royal blaming this on drinking would be bad for Royal, not good.

 

https://www.enjuris.com/car-accident/dram-shop-law.html

I disagree, but I'm not going to get into a pissing match over it, because it's a non-issue.  

[ReneeFLL]

On 1/19/2020 at 8:39 PM, PhoenixCruiser said:

I have no interest in looking at the pictures or videos.

 

It is a horrible situation and my heart aches for the family.

If you did look you would know that the GF stuck his head out the window. It's plain as day. He is totally to blame for killing her and should go to jail regardless of how he feels after the fact!

[ReneeFLL]

21 hours ago, Junkhouse said:

I'm sorry, the video shows otherwise.  You see him squatting down talking to Chloe and then he walks to the window with her. Again the family said that the open window was in a child's play area, trying to get more sympathy from the unknowing public.

True, it does look like he is talking to her. For all we know he could have been asking her if she wanted to look out of it. Maybe he didn't mean to drop her, but the fact is that he did and I think he should pay for his actions. Watching the video tells someone a lot.

Edited January 21, 2020 by ReneeFLL

[S.A.M.J.R.]

14 hours ago, KelSny1011 said:

So next would if there is a "federal industry toddler safety standard" that RCI broke by having these glass-less windows?  To me that is the only viable thing this attorney and family have at this point.

So does that mean families with toddlers shouldn't be allowed to book balcony cabins?  After all, those are open to the sea also.  That's one thing this family & lawyer are missing.  If you're going to make the argument that windows shouldn't be able to open because of the possibility of a similar tragedy, what do you do for balcony cabins?

[grapau27]

8 hours ago, mitsugirly said:

 

 

 

 

I hadn't read that either. Who reported this information? Just wondering.

 

 

Anyone see his interview? He still seems confused and changing stories.

 

Just my thoughts on the interview and looking at the video (copied and pasted from the other thread about this)

 

He said she was down at the bottom glass (to bang on the window like she does at the hockey games) so he bent down to do it and HE couldn't reach except for his fingertips....so he knew SHE couldn't reach either (which makes no sense because she would have been right at the bottom window underneath the handrail because there's no danger there and definitely been able to reach the glass). So that's when he decided he'd pick her up (video shows him being down there for about 4 seconds, which to me was long enough for him to bring her back away from the glass she was at and then under the handrail and lift her up).

 

Next when he was asked to show how he was holding her (interviewer asked if it was in a "bear hug" and moved his arms to represent that), then Anello agreed and did the same and states "from what I remember". 

 

He then said he was trying to knock on the glass himself (of course that meant you wouldn't have her in a bear hug with 2 arms holding on to her otherwise, how would you knock?) and said at that point he "was going to have to lean forward for her to reach it" then admits he only had 1 arm around her at that point. (He is seen in the video switching arms and holding her with 1 arm at a time)

 

He did say initially he blamed himself  but now "the more and more days go by" that he blames the cruise line.

 

Just watching the interview, I think he is cautious of what he is saying (of course probably advised by his counsel) and seems somewhat confused, maybe even easily influenced (by the interviewer asking a question and then suggesting the answer). I don't know. It's such a sad situation for everyone. I just think this story has changed so many times and the grandfather is so distraught and confused, maybe even blocking the tragic memory in his mind, that he just can't keep the story straight now. 😞

I don't know what the GF was thinking but the many discrepancies in his story and viewing the video would give a good prosecution lawyer an easy case against him in court.

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, ReneeFLL said:

If you did look you would know that the GF stuck his head out the window. It's plain as day. He is totally to blame for killing her and should go to jail regardless of how he feels after the fact!

Plus trying to blame Royal to deflect his guilt and trying to sue Royal for big money.

We had a lot of sympathy for him before we saw the video but now we don't but feel for the little girls mam and dad.

[ReneeFLL]

1 minute ago, grapau27 said:

Plus trying to blame Royal to deflect his guilt and trying to sue Royal for big money.

We had a lot of sympathy for him before we saw the video but now we don't but feel for the little girls mam and dad.

I do feel bad for all of them losing her especially that way. 

 

38 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

So does that mean families with toddlers shouldn't be allowed to book balcony cabins?  After all, those are open to the sea also.  That's one thing this family & lawyer are missing.  If you're going to make the argument that windows shouldn't be able to open because of the possibility of a similar tragedy, what do you do for balcony cabins?

Does anyone know what type of room they were in?

[nadinenurse1]

So I have 2 kids now 26 and 27    And that is my grand daughter I’ve there in the picture....  so this is really upsetting me...  she is fine and16 months old...I have no way to feel what the family Mom and Dad are feeling, but, to continue to keep this alive in the media to keep, litagation  engaged against RCI is the total opposite  of what I would think is the method to grieve this loss, anyone  with the smallest portion of a adult thought process would see the video,  yes by a bar not in a kid area , yes GD leaned the baby OUT the clearly defined safe space...... and  I have to think the family has more than grief in mind $ , that’s all  I can see them seeking ...$....... and that will not bring this baby back...nor change what that ass of a GF did......  and if  RCI caves to these people ... what will be next... screened enclosures on every balcony in case other idiots think the same thing.... wrap around screens on  every freaking railing on the ship as there may be  idiots around.... this really makes me angry instead of sad for Mom and Dad...... I hate myself for thinking that way..... I can not tell you what I am thinking about GF......    I would be so deep in grief and sadness I would not want to keep this horrible event going.....😓😥😰💔

[nadinenurse1]

And I just can’t shut up what about the passengers on deck she fell onto... I am traumatized and on my couch..... I would need grief counseling .. what happened to them the cruise didn’t continue we they moved off the boat ?

[S.A.M.J.R.]

2 minutes ago, nadinenurse1 said:

And I just can’t shut up what about the passengers on deck she fell onto... I am traumatized and on my couch..... I would need grief counseling .. what happened to them the cruise didn’t continue we they moved off the boat ?

She didn't fall onto a deck, she fell onto the dock.  I believe the cruise did leave, but obviously much later than scheduled.

 

[nadinenurse1]

Thank you  I can not read about this it haunts me , but yet.. I can’t shut up here either.... I will try promise

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, nadinenurse1 said:

And I just can’t shut up what about the passengers on deck she fell onto... I am traumatized and on my couch..... I would need grief counseling .. what happened to them the cruise didn’t continue we they moved off the boat ?

 

The child hit the concrete where the ship was docked. According to at least one report, she did impact the ship on the way down but I cannot confirm nor have I seen video to support that.

 

Embarkation was delayed but the ship did sail without the family.