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PRINCESS SHIPS & CORONA VIRUS


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The latest HAL update on the Westerdam passengers neither confirms nor denies the reported case of an infected American allowed to disembark the ship yesterday.  That last sentence is very worrisome if the secondary test confirms that the disembarked passenger is suffering from Covid-19.

 

Update: 2/15/2020 10:40 am Pacific Time
While the first results have been reported, they are preliminary at this point and we are awaiting secondary testing for confirmation.

We are working with officials in Malaysia, Cambodia and the U.S. CDC as is standard.

 

On Feb. 10 all 2,257 passengers and crew on board Westerdam were temperature-tested and not one person had an elevated temperature. Disembarking guests also completed a written health questionnaire and the passports of everyone on board were reviewed to ensure no one had traveled through mainland China in the prior 14 days. During the voyage there was no indication of Covid-19 on the ship.

 

Westerdam is alongside in Sihanoukville Cambodia with 236 guests and 747 crew on board. The remainder of guests from the voyage departed Sihanoukville via charter flights to Phnom Penh yesterday and today and are in various stages of transit home.

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/blog/ships/ms-westerdam/statement-regarding-westerdam-in-japan/

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8 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

 

WHy wud you think that home country wud not be smart enough to innist on fresh 14 days quarrantine to protec  their own population? 

 

Being on Diamond Princess is no different than having visited mainland china (in fact significant higher risk in terms of per cubic feet of infected air)

 

Well, if you assume that there was basically no working quarantine between the passengers on the ship you are of course correct. However, I have seen nothing so far to indicate that there was a lot of (or any) infection after the initial quarantine start. So in my opinion the quarantine on the DP should be sufficient, especially if the passengers test negative at the end.

 

The description I have read about quarantine of evacuees in California did not make it sound like these were kept apart better than on the ship (actually the opposite).

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5 minutes ago, Twolittleboys said:

 

Well, if you assume that there was basically no working quarantine between the passengers on the ship you are of course correct. However, I have seen nothing so far to indicate that there was a lot of (or any) infection after the initial quarantine start. So in my opinion the quarantine on the DP should be sufficient, especially if the passengers test negative at the end.

 

The description I have read about quarantine of evacuees in California did not make it sound like these were kept apart better than on the ship (actually the opposite).

 

If experts agree with your view that there has not been new contraction (which would be surprising conclusion but given what had happened with Westerdam such mistakes on part of experts is not impossible) then of course they wil be released to risk general US population.

 

But based on what is being said on this board and in international media, the general opinion (not saying which one is correct) is that new contractions have happened during these "quarrantine" on Diamond Princess.

 

Have no idea which of these two opposing viewpoints are correct.

Hope govt err on the side of caution.

Edited by hal2008
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1 minute ago, hal2008 said:

 

If experts agree with your view that there has not been new contraction (which would be surprising conclusion but given what had happened with Westerdam such mistakes on part of experts is not impossible) then of course they wil be released to risk general US population.

 

But based on what is being said on this board and in international media, the general opinion (not saying which one is correct) is new contractions have happened during these "quarrantine" on Diamond Princess.

 

Is someone giving birth?

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3 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

Is someone giving birth?

 

Apologies.

Meant to say "new occurrences of person contracting disease"

English is 7th language I learnt much later in the life. So I am afraid I am not good at it.

Apologies.

 

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3 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

 

Apologies.

Meant to say "new occurrences of person contracting disease"

English is 7th language I learnt much later in the life. So I am afraid I am not good at it.

Apologies.

 

 

It is quite likely they have been incubating the virus all along and it has finally reached the stage where they are showing symptoms.

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1 minute ago, brisalta said:

 

It is quite likely they have been incubating the virus all along and it has finally reached the stage where they are showing symptoms.

 

Impossible to refute that.

 

But knowing how imperfect their isolation was

- contact with crew

- exposure to infected air

- look at some of the photographs (they rare standing in so proximities)

 

not so confident that isolation had worked to the extent to preclude possibility of new "contraction" (smile please).

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A few observations -

 

1.  The case on the Westerdam falls within the probability of a false positive.  There is no other indication there should be a positive result.

2.  The containment issues for this virus have not been resolved.  The US policy with Diamond is doing the best it can based on what is known.

3.  Most travel insurance should cover the trip home.  The amounts involved appear reasonable compared to an unexpected trip to the ER.

 

I’m in Rome right now and the only case in Rome resulted in a hotel change for me.  If my trip had been 10 days earlier it would have meant the possibility of quarantine.  Keep current on risk no matter where you travel.  If you sign up for the Shackleton route at least keep in the back of your head what you would do if you encounter the full Shackleton experience.

 

There are good reasons to consider where you travel and how you travel right now and be prepare for the risks.

 

We should be grateful that Cambodia took the risk with the Westerdam.  Yes, they are well aware of the publicity value especially in the US.  Yes, there are lots of reasons to have Cambodia on the bucket list.

 

Safe and happy travels!

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24 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

 

Apologies.

Meant to say "new occurrences of person contracting disease"

English is 7th language I learnt much later in the life. So I am afraid I am not good at it.

Apologies.

 

You are very good at English.  WOW 7 languages!

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29 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

 

Apologies.

Meant to say "new occurrences of person contracting disease"

English is 7th language I learnt much later in the life. So I am afraid I am not good at it.

Apologies.

 

I must admit, I was a little puzzled by your post at first!  But no worries, we perfectly understand.

 

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36 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

 

Apologies.

Meant to say "new occurrences of person contracting disease"

English is 7th language I learnt much later in the life. So I am afraid I am not good at it.

Apologies.

 

Your English is great. Thanks for your input. My 2nd language is weak - can't imagine 7 languages.

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1 hour ago, Twolittleboys said:

 

Well, if you assume that there was basically no working quarantine between the passengers on the ship you are of course correct. However, I have seen nothing so far to indicate that there was a lot of (or any) infection after the initial quarantine start. So in my opinion the quarantine on the DP should be sufficient, especially if the passengers test negative at the end.

 

The description I have read about quarantine of evacuees in California did not make it sound like these were kept apart better than on the ship (actually the opposite).

The diagnoses of 67 new cases this late in the quarantine period is certainly a concern.  One would expect that if isolation was successful this late after median incubation time the number of new cases should drop off dramatically.  Of course the number do not break down the cases into crew (not fully isolated), those in cabins where others have developed symptoms during the quarantine, period and those in cabins previously unaffected.  There also might be a number of passengers that have chosen to not report symptoms, because it would block their ability to leave on the 19th if the quarantine did end them.

Edited by npcl
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49 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

It is quite likely they have been incubating the virus all along and it has finally reached the stage where they are showing symptoms.

Getting rather late in the quarantine period for the number of new cases (67 additional). With a median time of 6.5 days or less and being 11 days into a 14 day quarantine.

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5 minutes ago, npcl said:

Getting rather late in the quarantine period for the number of new cases (67 additional). With a median time of 6.5 days or less and being 11 days into a 14 day quarantine.

 

Not really as there was a report out of China that they thought the maximum incubation period could be longer than 14 days.

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1 minute ago, npcl said:

Getting rather late in the quarantine period for the number of new cases (67 additional). With a median time of 6.5 days or less and being 11 days into a 14 day quarantine.

 

There are photos of people outside on balconies on the Diamond without masks, and reports on social media from people on-board that people sneezed while they walked by in a shared internal hallway.

 

If you google, the number of medical professionals diagnosed around the world is high and climbing higher.  I am not sure how effective using the same mask over and over could be.  We also don't know where these new infections were living (with, or next to, someone previously infected).

 

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Just now, brisalta said:

 

Not really as there was a report out of China that they thought the incubation period could be longer than 14 days.

There was one study of 1000 patients, that was primarily a clinical review of records to try and determine methods for clinical diagnosis.  The use of chest cat scans which the paper said was positive in 50+% of the cases are now being used by China as a way to consider patients to be infected (note lack of a positive cat scan is not considered to indicate no disease).

 

The 24 days incubation period was from 1 of the 1000 patients clinical record.  The study was never intended to measure incubation time.  The WHO considered it to be a outlier and possible the result of double exposure.  Even though that report came out a few days ago and there have been discussions on that subject, no one has increased their views on incubation time.

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3 hours ago, npcl said:

Getting rather late in the quarantine period for the number of new cases (67 additional). With a median time of 6.5 days or less and being 11 days into a 14 day quarantine.

 

This was posted on the Diamond thread and it backs up what you have been saying. 

"There is now ample evidence that this quarantine is not preventing the spread of cases within the ship and it is also posing a risk of spread within the ship," Tom Inglesby, an infectious-disease expert and director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, told TIME.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wholly-inappropriate-quarantine-practices-may-have-helped-spread-coronavirus-on-the-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-experts-say/ar-BB102mkO

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4 hours ago, npcl said:

Getting rather late in the quarantine period for the number of new cases (67 additional). With a median time of 6.5 days or less and being 11 days into a 14 day quarantine.

 

And now 70 more, what a disaster. You got the right idea cancelling your cruises and flying to Tahiti (hopefully Bora Bora).

 

Japan confirms 70 new cases of COVID-19 from Diamond Princess cruise ship

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/16/national/science-health/japan-70-new-cases-covid19-diamond-princess-cruise-ship/#.Xkit5BNKjPA

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4 hours ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

I am not sure how effective using the same mask over and over could be.  We also don't know where these new infections were living (with, or next to, someone previously infected).

 

Surgical masks are apparently meant to be changed every two hours, that is what they did on the evacuation flights from Wuhan. The only really effective mask is an N95 mask that is fitted properly.

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1 minute ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Surgical masks are apparently meant to be changed every two hours, that is what they did on the evacuation flights from Wuhan. The only really effective mask is an N95 mask that is fitted properly.

 

Exactly, so a lack of clean masks could be the reason the quarantine is failing, if it is failing.  That has nothing to do with circulation on the ship.  There are so many unknowns.  I really feel for everyone involved.

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7 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Surgical masks are apparently meant to be changed every two hours, that is what they did on the evacuation flights from Wuhan. The only really effective mask is an N95 mask that is fitted properly.

The N95 masks are what I just purchased and it came with multiple filters. We will try to use them on our flight. If nothing else, it will keep us from touching our own faces so we don’t spread  germs from our hands.

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12 hours ago, Cruzinforpeace*** said:

I would jump on that flight for sure!   I’d rather be in my home country for quarantine (language, medical care, food etc.). This is going to be a long story for a lot of people.  

 

If I did not have the virus, I would rather not be in a bus going to the airport with people that may be contagious and then a closely packed airplane for hours with people that may be contagious.

 

Now if the evacuation flights had been scheduled for after the 14 day ship quarantine period was over, that would be a different story. But evacuation before those 14 days are up means there could be contagious people on the bus and plane with you. You could leave the ship without having been affected and arrive in  California with the virus now in you.

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1 hour ago, Pushka said:

In Singapore, the current media campaign is emphasising frequent hand washing And not the wearing of facial masks, which should only be worn if you are actually unwell. 

Face masks are useless. Any microparticles of the virus can get into your eyes and enter your immune system that way. As soon as you blink and the virus has touched your eyes then you are infected. Also entry via ear canal or any open cuts or wounds like shaving cuts or scratches on the skin the virus can enter the body.

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