PRINCESS SHIPS & CORONA VIRUS

[jwattle]

8 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

It didn’t end with Diamond because there were sailings that departed after Diamond. That should not have happened. Then those sailings stayed in transit because ports refused to take them.


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Monday morning quarter backing is such a luxury; there is no way that people could have known from the Diamond that COVID-19 would run the way that it would. At the time of the Diamond it was still just isolated to China essentially; nowhere else.

[silkismom]

Speaking of Monday morning quarter backing.   Just think if that ONE person hadn't gone to China from HK before getting on the Diamond, would everything be different now?

[spookyfudge]

Its an interesting fact that Carnival corporation is the leader in the coronavirus and deaths among its passengers.  In the industry I used to work in, this seems like an issue that needs a very through investigation (root cause) prior to any Carnival Corporation ship sails the high seas. They need to look to see if crew members from certain countries brought it onto the ship, was it from a port/s visited by each ship, why did it take long to find it on the ship, do they have procedures in place to detect it faster on each ship (maybe purchasing that portable machine that the president highlighted), how do they now board passengers in the future (temp checks, passport checks), how do they handle passengers (multiple) when they get sick on the ship.  Just my thoughts.  I believe they need to perform a root cause of their ships over other ships getting sick and how they will handle this in the future.

[caribill]

14 hours ago, spookyfudge said:

Its an interesting fact that Carnival corporation is the leader in the coronavirus and deaths among its passengers.

 

It is also the world's largest cruise corporation, so being the highest in the virus problem is not a surprise.

 

The city I live in has the highest rate for the virus in it's county. It also has the highest population of any city in the county.

[caribill]

15 hours ago, spookyfudge said:

Its an interesting fact that Carnival corporation is the leader in the coronavirus and deaths among its passengers.

 

Non-Carnival Corp ships where passengers became symptomatic while on the ship:

• Celebrity Eclipse (March 2-30)
• Disney Wonder (March 6-20)
• Norwegian Bliss (March 1-8) 
• Norwegian Breakaway (March 7-14)
• Norwegian Pride of America (Feb. 29-March 7)
• Oceania Riviera (Feb. 26-March 11)
• Royal Caribbean: Liberty of the Seas (March 15-29)
• Royal Caribbean: Oasis of the Seas (March 8-15)
• Royal Caribbean: Symphony of the Seas (March 7-14)

Non-Carnival ships where passengers became symptomatic within 14 days after the cruise:

Celebrity Infinity (March 5-9)

Celebrity Reflection (March 13-17)

Celebrity Summit (Feb. 29-March 7)

Disney Wonder (Feb. 28-March 2)

Grand Celebration (Feb. 22-24)

MSC Meraviglia (March 1-8)

Norwegian Bliss (March 8-15)

Norwegian Breakaway (Feb. 29-March 7)

Royal Caribbean Explorer of the Seas (March 8-15)

 

Source:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/07/coronavirus-cruise-passengers-these-ships-may-have-been-exposed/2961313001/?for-guid=6e3b0242-45e5-11ea-88fe-12ccee11deff&utm_source=usatoday-Coronavirus Watch&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=baseline_greeting&utm_term=newsletter_greeting

 

[Aus Traveller]

41 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Non-Carnival Corp ships where passengers became symptomatic while on the ship:

• Celebrity Eclipse (March 2-30)
• Disney Wonder (March 6-20)
• Norwegian Bliss (March 1-8) 
• Norwegian Breakaway (March 7-14)
• Norwegian Pride of America (Feb. 29-March 7)
• Oceania Riviera (Feb. 26-March 11)
• Royal Caribbean: Liberty of the Seas (March 15-29)
• Royal Caribbean: Oasis of the Seas (March 8-15)
• Royal Caribbean: Symphony of the Seas (March 7-14)

Add the Artania a German cruise ship that docked in Fremantle (Western Australia). Passengers and crew with COVID were treated in local hospitals. One man died. Other passengers were flown back to Germany on a chartered plane.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

19 hours ago, jwattle said:

Monday morning quarter backing is such a luxury; there is no way that people could have known from the Diamond that COVID-19 would run the way that it would. At the time of the Diamond it was still just isolated to China essentially; nowhere else.

 

Everyone paying attention to the mainstream press knew by late February that trouble was spreading ... and that parts of Italy had been quarantined by February 26.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51645902

 

That's why the organizers by then had canceled this year's Housewares Show in Chicago (55,000 people expected) and the annual convention of physicists had called already off its early March gathering (10,000). Major cities were

canceling their St Patrick's Day parades very shortly afterward.

 

Carnival's subsidiaries were still bringing ships with corpses and desperately sick people to Florida at the start of April ... truly incomprehensible.

The extended cruises should have gone into emergency shutdown, and the last

round of cruises that went out should never have left port.

 

There's no "Monday morning quarterbacking" involved. But there's lots of corporate malfeasance.

 

Fox News and Limbaugh/Hannity bear enormous responsibility for their foolish listeners' ignorance about what was really happening - but that's no excuse for Carnival corporate's disastrous mishandling of the situation from mid-February to now.

 

 

[Aus Traveller]

20 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

Everyone paying attention to the mainstream press knew by late February that trouble was spreading ... and that parts of Italy had been quarantined by February 26.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51645902

That's why the organizers by then had canceled this year's Housewares Show in Chicago (55,000 people expected) and the annual convention of physicists had called already off its early March gathering (10,000). Major cities were

canceling their St Patrick's Day parades very shortly afterward.

 

Carnival's subsidiaries were still bringing ships with corpses and desperately sick people to Florida at the start of April ... truly incomprehensible. The extended cruises should have gone into emergency shutdown, and the last round of cruises that went out should never have left port.

 

There's no "Monday morning quarterbacking" involved. But there's lots of corporate malfeasance.

 

Fox News and Limbaugh/Hannity bear enormous responsibility for their foolish listeners' ignorance about what was really happening - but that's no excuse for Carnival corporate's disastrous mishandling of the situation from mid-February to now

The Coral Princess finally arrived in Florida at the start of April. This cruise was underway when Princess announced a 'pause' of its cruises on 12th March. Some of the passengers on the Coral disembarked in Buenos Aires before the President of Argentina ordered that the ship leave. The Coral tried to disembark its passengers in other ports in South America but were turned away from port after port. What else could Princess have done? They couldn't dump the passengers at sea, but had to keep the remainder of the passengers on board to take them back to USA. By the timing of the 'positive' tests it seems likely that the virus came on board in Buenos Aires, either with passengers who missed their flights and returned to the ship, or with local authorities who came on board.

 

The Pacific Princess was on an around-the-world cruise when the 'pause' was announced. She disembarked most of her passengers in Fremantle (Western Australia). Around 115 passengers who were unable to fly for medical reasons remained on the ship for return to USA. These people were not ill, just not able to fly for various medical reasons.

 

I have to compliment Carnival and the other large cruise lines for the way they are looking after their passengers - paying for charter flights and other arrangements to get them home. Contrast this with the passengers on a small expedition ship that has been stuck of Uruguay for a couple of weeks. The tour operator (Scenic) has said that the passengers will have to pay $15,000 each to fly home and that amount is "under determined" which I take to mean that it could be higher.

[Digjharper]

21 hours ago, jwattle said:

Monday morning quarter backing is such a luxury; there is no way that people could have known from the Diamond that COVID-19 would run the way that it would. At the time of the Diamond it was still just isolated to China essentially; nowhere else.

Really? The boards for most of the different cruise lines were full of people predicting what was going to happen but they were mainly criticised for being too pessimistic and their post vanished. They were also many posts from people who said they were going to “chance it” as (delete as applicable), if was just like the flu/saved up for a long time for this cruise/the cruise companies will look after us etc etc.

 
 

When you saw in February numerous ports not allowing cruise ships to enter you did not need to be a “Monday morning quarterback” to see this coming - note, obviously those who were on round the world (or similar) cruises when this disaster started unfolding in February had no way of knowing what was about to occur.

 

I know numerous people who cancelled their trips as they too could see what was coming, others evaluated the risk and took the chance and ended up suffering.

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, Digjharper said:

When you saw in February numerous ports not allowing cruise ships to enter you did not need to be a “Monday morning quarterback” to see this coming - note, obviously those who were on round the world (or similar) cruises when this disaster started unfolding in February had no way of knowing what was about to occur.

 

I know numerous people who cancelled their trips as they too could see what was coming, others evaluated the risk and took the chance and ended up suffering.

The round-the-world cruise on the Pacific Princess left Fort Lauderdale on January 5th, and then left Los Angeles on January 20th. At the start of January, and in mid January, most of us couldn't see what was coming: we couldn't see that the Coronavirus in China would spread around the world.

 

The Coral Princess cruises around South America had left before the COVID issue became a pandemic. In mid- February I didn't foresee what has happened in the world in about six weeks. I wouldn't blame someone for going ahead with a South American cruise booked on the Coral Princess.

 

And those on the Diamond were caught totally unaware. It is almost unbelievable what resulted from one person with the infection being on board. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

2 hours ago, Digjharper said:

Really? The boards for most of the different cruise lines were full of people predicting what was going to happen but they were mainly criticised for being too pessimistic and their post vanished. They were also many posts from people who said they were going to “chance it” as (delete as applicable), if was just like the flu/saved up for a long time for this cruise/the cruise companies will look after us etc etc.

 
 

When you saw in February numerous ports not allowing cruise ships to enter you did not need to be a “Monday morning quarterback” to see this coming - note, obviously those who were on round the world (or similar) cruises when this disaster started unfolding in February had no way of knowing what was about to occur.

 

I know numerous people who cancelled their trips as they too could see what was coming, others evaluated the risk and took the chance and ended up suffering.

 Exactly.

 

Jan. 30 WHO issued "public health advisory of international concern"

 

By mid-February, major universities & business associations were starting to bail on staff travel & large-scale conferences. 
 

Meanwhile, Carnival and its subsidiaries were in better position than anyone to see what was coming. They had many years of experience from noro & traditional flu to know exactly how contagious diseases spread.  They knew their customer base was international in makeup. They KNEW that sending out more cruises (or continuing existing ones) was a dice roll.

 

And after becoming the first in the industry to deal with this crisis (Diamond), they still seemed slack-jawed and clueless more than a month later while fumbling to arrange for emergency disembarkation of Coral and Zaandam. 🤯

 

"Our first priority is always to keep you safe" - Carnival suits disproved that horribly here. As usual, a business of thousands of hard-working and honorable people will pay the price for the hubris and incompetence of the executive class.

 

Some of the less savvy public can try to blame their own ignorance on lies from Rupert Murdoch, Rush Limbaugh and Fox "News" ... but Carnival gets no free pass. 
 

But don't take my word for it. Keep an eye on the real news media over the next two years as the lawsuits, governmental investigations and survivors' stories start coming out.

Edited April 8, 2020 by EscapeFromConnecticut

[Level six]

Agree!  Anyone who says we did not know this was going to happen to any cruises leaving after mid FEB and definitely any time in March, has had their head in the sand.

 

I brought it up in my roll call and was trashed for being an alarmist.  I did not go on the FEB 1 cruise and lost money because my insurance did not cover pandemics.  So, that in itself makes a pretty strong statement.  I lost money, lots and lots of money. 

 

I was responsible for my own health and for the health of others.  There is no denying we did not know.  Maybe some news outlets were saying it was fake, but, maybe it is time to find a news outlet that is more middle ground.  

 

We knew(regular people), therefore the cruise lines knew.  

[suzyed]

7 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 

Everyone paying attention to the mainstream press knew by late February that trouble was spreading ... and that parts of Italy had been quarantined by February 26.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51645902

 

That's why the organizers by then had canceled this year's Housewares Show in Chicago (55,000 people expected) and the annual convention of physicists had called already off its early March gathering (10,000). Major cities were

canceling their St Patrick's Day parades very shortly afterward.

 

Carnival's subsidiaries were still bringing ships with corpses and desperately sick people to Florida at the start of April ... truly incomprehensible.

The extended cruises should have gone into emergency shutdown, and the last

round of cruises that went out should never have left port.

 

There's no "Monday morning quarterbacking" involved. But there's lots of corporate malfeasance.

 

Fox News and Limbaugh/Hannity bear enormous responsibility for their foolish listeners' ignorance about what was really happening - but that's no excuse for Carnival corporate's disastrous mishandling of the situation from mid-February to now.

 

 

And there it is....making this political.  Wondering whether you were on any of the ships? The "extended"  cruises were out there for 16 days...so what kind of emergency shutdown are you preposing?

[suzyed]

5 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

The round-the-world cruise on the Pacific Princess left Fort Lauderdale on January 5th, and then left Los Angeles on January 20th. At the start of January, and in mid January, most of us couldn't see what was coming: we couldn't see that the Coronavirus in China would spread around the world.

 

The Coral Princess cruises around South America had left before the COVID issue became a pandemic. In mid- February I didn't foresee what has happened in the world in about six weeks. I wouldn't blame someone for going ahead with a South American cruise booked on the Coral Princess.

 

And those on the Diamond were caught totally unaware. It is almost unbelievable what resulted from one person with the infection being on board. 

Further, the cruises that were turned away in ports in February, particularly in the Caribbean, were turned away due to a NORO outbreak.

 

[suzyed]

4 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 Exactly.

 

Jan. 30 WHO issued "public health advisory of international concern"

 

By mid-February, major universities & business associations were starting to bail on staff travel & large-scale conferences. 
 

Meanwhile, Carnival and its subsidiaries were in better position than anyone to see what was coming. They had many years of experience from noro & traditional flu to know exactly how contagious diseases spread.  They knew their customer base was international in makeup. They KNEW that sending out more cruises (or continuing existing ones) was a dice roll.

 

And after becoming the first in the industry to deal with this crisis (Diamond), they still seemed slack-jawed and clueless more than a month later while fumbling to arrange for emergency disembarkation of Coral and Zaandam. 🤯

 

"Our first priority is always to keep you safe" - Carnival suits disproved that horribly here. As usual, a business of thousands of hard-working and honorable people will pay the price for the hubris and incompetence of the executive class.

 

Some of the less savvy public can try to blame their own ignorance on lies from Rupert Murdoch, Rush Limbaugh and Fox "News" ... but Carnival gets no free pass. 
 

But don't take my word for it. Keep an eye on the real news media over the next two years as the lawsuits, governmental investigations and survivors' stories start coming out.

Your "liberal" is showing.

[bluesea321]

7 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I have to compliment Carnival and the other large cruise lines for the way they are looking after their passengers - paying for charter flights and other arrangements to get them home.

 

Carnival had no choice, they had to do this per CDC guidelines.  What were they going to do otherwise, leave the passengers on the Coral indefinitely?  That would have been a health and public relations nightmare. 

 

Carnival flew passengers from the Zaandam on commercial flights this past Saturday and let them use public transports regardless of the risk this posed to others on the flight or at the airports.  They only changed to charter flights after Saturday 4/4 because of the CDC change of rules.

[Captain_Morgan]

7 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I have to compliment Carnival and the other large cruise lines for the way they are looking after their passengers - paying for charter flights and other arrangements to get them home. Contrast this with the passengers on a small expedition ship that has been stuck of Uruguay for a couple of weeks. The tour operator (Scenic) has said that the passengers will have to pay $15,000 each to fly home and that amount is "under determined" which I take to mean that it could be higher.

 

Just to clarify a few things, Princess and HAL didn't pay for the charters out of the goodness of their hearts it was a condition given to them by the local authourities in Florida among others prior to gaining permission to dock.  Furthermore, that came as a result of previous disastrous outcomes from passengers on other ships (i.e. Costa) who flew to America from Europe on charters and were then allowed to mix and mingle in airports and on commercial flights home.

 

Also, the story of the ship off the coast of Uruguay is found here (among other articles) where its stated the cost to fly the people home on charters would be approx. $9000 USD each, which is still a lot of money so not sure if your figure is in Australian Dollars?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/americas/greg-mortimer-cruise-ship-coronavirus-intl-hnk/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

Edited April 8, 2020 by Captain_Morgan

[bluesea321]

15 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Just to clarify a few things, Princess and HAL didn't pay for the charters out of the goodness of their hearts it was a condition given to them by the local authorities in Florida among others prior to gaining permission to dock.  Furthermore, that came as a result of previous disastrous outcomes from passengers on other ships (i.e. Costa) who flew to America from Europe on charters and were then allowed to mix and mingle in airports and on commercial flights home.

 

They certainly did not do this "out of the goodness of their hearts", they did it due to the requirements of the CDC below:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/what-cdc-is-doing.html

[Level six]

13 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

They certainly did not do this "out of the goodness of their hearts", they did it due to the requirements of the CDC below:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/what-cdc-is-doing.html

 

Agree.  My friends were on the Golden and the Governor of our state sent a plane to get them from quarantine in Georgia............at our state's tax dollar I am sure.  They only chartered the planes because they had to as far as I can tell by the news here and online, tv, etc. 

[suzyed]

3 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

They certainly did not do this "out of the goodness of their hearts", they did it due to the requirements of the CDC below:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/what-cdc-is-doing.html

Well we appreciated it, nevertheless. 

[Aus Traveller]

8 hours ago, Level six said:

Agree!  Anyone who says we did not know this was going to happen to any cruises leaving after mid FEB and definitely any time in March, has had their head in the sand.

 

I brought it up in my roll call and was trashed for being an alarmist.  I did not go on the FEB 1 cruise and lost money because my insurance did not cover pandemics.  So, that in itself makes a pretty strong statement.  I lost money, lots and lots of money. 

 

I was responsible for my own health and for the health of others.  There is no denying we did not know.  Maybe some news outlets were saying it was fake, but, maybe it is time to find a news outlet that is more middle ground.  

 

We knew(regular people), therefore the cruise lines knew.  

I thought it was only WHO who could declare a pandemic. They did not do this until 11th March (probably later than they should have), but Coronavirus wasn't a pandemic in January. It wasn't a pandemic in January. 

 

The definition of 'pandemic' - “an epidemic occurring worldwide, or over a very wide area, crossing international boundaries and usually affecting a large number of people”.

[Level six]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

I thought it was only WHO who could declare a pandemic. They did not do this until 11th March (probably later than they should have), but Coronavirus wasn't a pandemic in January. It wasn't a pandemic in January. 

 

The definition of 'pandemic' - “an epidemic occurring worldwide, or over a very wide area, crossing international boundaries and usually affecting a large number of people”.

You are right, but my insurance did not cover any epidemics or pandemics, so, my wording was wrong I guess.  All I know is we are still going back and forth.  IF you want to be my attorney and take up my case with the insurance company, I will welcome it!!  

Edited April 9, 2020 by Level six

[ilikeanswers]

59 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I thought it was only WHO who could declare a pandemic. They did not do this until 11th March (probably later than they should have), but Coronavirus wasn't a pandemic in January. It wasn't a pandemic in January. 

 

The definition of 'pandemic' - “an epidemic occurring worldwide, or over a very wide area, crossing international boundaries and usually affecting a large number of people”.

 

IIRC January 30 Coronavirus was declared a PHIEC. That already voided a lot of people's travel insurance. 

[Aus Traveller]

12 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

 

Just to clarify a few things, Princess and HAL didn't pay for the charters out of the goodness of their hearts it was a condition given to them by the local authourities in Florida among others prior to gaining permission to dock.  Furthermore, that came as a result of previous disastrous outcomes from passengers on other ships (i.e. Costa) who flew to America from Europe on charters and were then allowed to mix and mingle in airports and on commercial flights home.

 

Also, the story of the ship off the coast of Uruguay is found here (among other articles) where its stated the cost to fly the people home on charters would be approx. $9000 USD each, which is still a lot of money so not sure if your figure is in Australian Dollars?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/americas/greg-mortimer-cruise-ship-coronavirus-intl-hnk/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

The $15,000 referred to is Australian dollars. 🙂The passengers referred to are Australians and they were travelling on a ship chartered by an Australian company, Scenic.

 

BTW, Princess and HAL paid for passengers to fly home from early on in this saga, starting when cruises were cancelled or cut short from 12th March. I realise that the charters for passengers from the Zeendam, then later the Coral, were following agreements reached with the local authorities.