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Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

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5 minutes ago, Ombud said:

When this started to unroll in late January Yokohama was slated to be the alternative port for HK for several Princess ships. Was that also the case for the Diamond?

I thought this cruise began and ended in Japan. But I could be wrong.

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6 minutes ago, mrsgoggins said:


That is a very enlightening, and scary, video.

Heartbreaking.

Makes you wonder what others involved want to say and don’t out of fear.  (Worldwide)

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Unfortunately this is what the virus is going to do to our human institutions.  The government tries hard to contain it, the containment fails, and now we distrust everything about our government. I honestly do not think that there is much different that could have been done on the cruise ship that would have changed the outcome, the problem from my perspective is that a lot of people were confined to their cabins for no benefit at all, while sick passengers were taken off of the ship where they could (and possibly did) infect a major metropolitan city.   

 

Trump's decision to bring back the Americans is going to haunt him, I think -- even though in my opinion the virus is already here and probably spreading.   We just are not doing the testing to find out.   The Cruise ship is not that unique of an environment (think "large hotel") except that everybody is contained and can be tested.   We already have an "unusually bad" 'flu season for some reason....

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22 minutes ago, Seavoyage said:

Yikes - Ship of death....terrible.

 

For some reason the original video post was not showing in my current view of the boards, so thanks for reposting it otherwise I never would have seen it.   In case it disappears again, here is the apparent whistleblower video link with alleged first hand knowledge of whats going on behind the scenes.     Perhaps someone can archive it in case it is censored by Google.
 

I get all the support for Princess management in a difficult situation, they can't control the quarantine, but I always thought under maritime law a Captain had absolute control of her/his ship, and so for example while they cant leave the dock or disembark, they could have hired and brought on board their own infection control expert and for example established red and green zones as the doctor suggests, or required informed consent to be verbal or electronic not written on paper that is carried from cabin to cabin.   For there to be apparently no one on board that is an infectious disease control expert is astounding.

 Especially since they go out to sea every 2 to 3 days wouldn't they have more rights themselves under maritime law in terms of what happens on their ship?   

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Expat Cruise said:

 

 

This link may explain part of the reason we are here now.   Here is part of that news report from the 11th of February 8 days after the start of the quarantine.  And with only 135 positive.

 

"Within the Japanese government, debate continues over whether to put valuable resources toward screening everyone on board the ship, diminishing its ability to deal with future outbreaks."

Seems clear they made choices about testing to save the resources they had.  They did not want to spend the money and use the test kits. They wanted  to save for Japan.

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/02/00ff9a937d41-focus-japan-torn-over-whether-to-test-all-on-cruise-ship-for-coronavirus.html

 

 

As they had a limited number of tests available, perhaps Japan was saving them for those who had a fever or exhibited symptoms of the virus.  

 

Without having direct knowledge or actual proof beyond a news article written, it's awfully hard for me personally to speculate on what Japan had done in that particular instance at that point in time of the virus situation on the Diamond.

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1 minute ago, gphb said:

 

For some reason the original video post was not showing in my current view of the boards, so thanks for reposting it otherwise I never would have seen it.   In case it disappears again, here is the apparent whistleblower video link with alleged first hand knowledge of whats going on behind the scenes.     Perhaps someone can archive it in case it is censored by Google.
 

I get all the support for Princess management in a difficult situation, they can't control the quarantine, but I always thought under maritime law a Captain had absolute control of her/his ship, and so for example while they cant leave the dock or disembark, they could have hired and brought on board their own infection control expert and for example established red and green zones as the doctor suggests, or required informed consent to be verbal or electronic not written on paper that is carried from cabin to cabin.   For there to be apparently no one on board that is an infectious disease control expert is astounding.

 Especially since they go out to sea every 2 to 3 days wouldn't they have more rights themselves under maritime law in terms of what happens on their ship?   

 

 

 

Yes you are correct. But in this case it is like the ship is under arrest. And while the Captain could go to sea and just leave under the law he really cannot. Japan can revoke the docking and transferring   through it waters,  they can also issue a arrest warrant for the Captain if he does not follow what they say. So while he can he can't in this case.

 

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3 minutes ago, gphb said:

 

For some reason the original video post was not showing in my current view of the boards, so thanks for reposting it otherwise I never would have seen it.   In case it disappears again, here is the apparent whistleblower video link with alleged first hand knowledge of whats going on behind the scenes.     Perhaps someone can archive it in case it is censored by Google.
 

I get all the support for Princess management in a difficult situation, they can't control the quarantine, but I always thought under maritime law a Captain had absolute control of her/his ship, and so for example while they cant leave the dock or disembark, they could have hired and brought on board their own infection control expert and for example established red and green zones as the doctor suggests, or required informed consent to be verbal or electronic not written on paper that is carried from cabin to cabin.   For there to be apparently no one on board that is an infectious disease control expert is astounding.

 Especially since they go out to sea every 2 to 3 days wouldn't they have more rights themselves under maritime law in terms of what happens on their ship?   

 

 

Cannot answer about Maritime Law, but how do you establish Red & Green zones without massive cabin moves?  I suppose they could re-arrange dining, but I have read meals were being delivered to cabins.  How to you Red & Green zone the crew?

 

Hindsight is always 20-20, but seems like most people could have been off-loaded and put on planes home at the outset (with a test first).  

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3 minutes ago, Host CJSKIDS said:

 

 

As they had a limited number of tests available, perhaps Japan was saving them for those who had a fever or exhibited symptoms of the virus.  

 

Without having direct knowledge or actual proof beyond a news article written, it's awfully hard for me personally to speculate on what Japan had done in that particular instance at that point in time of the virus situation on the Diamond.

Yes you could be correct but if you take this report and the video here it starts to look  more and more likely what has happen. 

 

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I have been a longtime member of the cruise critic community and rarely post anymore. However I just watched the entire video from the Infectious Disease doctor who teaches at Kobe University in Japan.  (I think that is what he said.)  All I can say is WOW, JUST WOW!  I am an RN and my last years working I spent in Infection Control.  What he had to say about the conditions on the Diamond are shocking and disturbing.  The fact that “bureaucrats” (his word) are in charge and not medical professionals trained in infection control explains completely the progression of the virus throughout the ship.  I suspect the “quarantine” of Diamond Princess will be studied and analyzed for years to come.  Most likely used as THE example of how not to quarantine/control a potentially deadly virus.

 

Some of his points that stood out to me as unbelievable:

 

- no ID trained medical professional in charge of the operation

- no red or green zones, meaning no defined clean or contaminated zones

- haphazard use of PPE (personal protection equipment) 

- the doctor (I think he said) who is no longer wearing PPE or even practicing good universal precautions because she thinks she is already exposed to the virus...she could be spreading the virus!

- people eating in random areas and some with gloves on!  Were the gloves at least clean???
- the hubris of the bureaucrats in charge to kick him off the ship because he was critical of how they are managing the situation

 

I fear the people in Yokohama are now at SIGNIFICANT risk of COVID-19 being disseminated throughout the general population because of the way these Japanese officials have mis-managed the Diamond Princess.  

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With hindsight there are things they should have probably done form the onset......

 

1) Actually tested the crew and removed those who were positive from service.

 

2) put healthy working crew or outside help into full hazmat mode and use only outside packed MRE as food.

 

3) Really Test all passengers and split off Positive ones as to really keep the quarantine clean since it did become apparent quickly that you didn’t have to show any symptoms to already be spreading the virus. 
 

4) aProblem not easily solved is Japanese culture where saying no or asking for help is deemed a failure......

 

otherwise the idea itself wasn’t actually bad.

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Just heard from a friend who has family on the ship. They officially tested negative and should be on a flight to Canada on the 20th. They will be quarantined in Canada for a further 14 days.

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5 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Cannot answer about Maritime Law, but how do you establish Red & Green zones without massive cabin moves?  I suppose they could re-arrange dining, but I have read meals were being delivered to cabins.  How to you Red & Green zone the crew?

 

I really don't know but I think the doctor in the video was suggesting that there should be some zones even just for the quarantine staff to consider a green zone where they don't do all the practices he describes of using cell phones, eating with their gloves still on, etc. and with presumably some sheeting to and from.   I did see pictures of where they had taken over the MDR for prescription medication sorting and so there are at least some public areas of the ship that perhaps could be better controlled.   Or tents on some of the open decks that are roped off?    Again, I have no idea and don't wish to "manage in hindsight" but it seems such consideration could have been in Princess leadership or UK government (the flag bearer) to question too?

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3 hours ago, phil the brit said:

Can anyone involved make a good decision? Are they all imbeciles?

You cannot let anyone off this ship to just roam free wherever they please. 324 have proved positive in the LAST FOUR DAYS. Quarantine has NOT worked.

 

 

Most passengers had not been tested before if they had not presented any symptoms. It seems that many people have the virus but do not show symptoms.

 

If they had not been tested until recently, then of course if they have the virus it is now being discovered late in the quarantine period.

 

A number of "new" cases in the recent days proves only that they were not tested earlier, not that the virus spread during the quarantine period.

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I find the suggestion that we should have put uninfected crew on the ship to serve infected passengers somewhat disturbing, let alone the fact that not many chefs and butlers are trained in the safe use of personal protective gear.   The true gear required is a real PITA to work with according to a virologist that I follow, the stuff I have used when dealing with fiberglass (on boats and in attics) is difficult enough.    When something like this happens there are not "crew" and "passengers", just a whole bunch of humans in a difficult situation and they all have equal worth.

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28 minutes ago, gphb said:

 

I really don't know but I think the doctor in the video was suggesting that there should be some zones even just for the quarantine staff to consider a green zone where they don't do all the practices he describes of using cell phones, eating with their gloves still on, etc. and with presumably some sheeting to and from.   I did see pictures of where they had taken over the MDR for prescription medication sorting and so there are at least some public areas of the ship that perhaps could be better controlled.   Or tents on some of the open decks that are roped off?    Again, I have no idea and don't wish to "manage in hindsight" but it seems such consideration could have been in Princess leadership or UK government (the flag bearer) to question too?

At bare minimum I heard it as “no one seemed Interested in discussing how to set up red and green zones”. At least that is what I took from it.

He seemed so genuinely heartbroken that he couldn’t help and scared of what it means for the future.

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CBC and Radio-Canada report that 43 Canadian passengers have tested positive.

 

Therefore, a maximum of 213 healthy Canadians could board the evacuation flight leaving Japan on Thursday and arriving in Canada on Friday. However, Global Affairs Canada has not been able to contact at least 90 Canadians. They could be infected or healthy.

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With all the numbers of people that have/had the virus and recovered, where are they?  I would think the internet would be filled with utube, facebook, etc videos of what they went through. 

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If people are wondering why this maybe spreading so rapidly on ship it ,at be time to stop blaming crew.   Think about all those folks that assumed since they were not coughing or feeling ill they could "visit" other cabins.  Let me say I hope everyone recovers but quarantine does not mean I feel okay so I can socualize with next door neighbors. Or I can do what I want when I get home. 

 

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After watching the video by Professor Iwata (linked earlier on this page) I don't see how they can release any passengers off the ship without an additional 14 days of real quarantine away from the ship. Please watch the video and form your own conclusions. Iwata has impeccable credentials (worked on Ebola, SARS, MERS, etc), 20 years experience on infectious diseases.

 

Those that have so far tested negative may well test positive after they are off the ship (see the video for conditions on the ship). I hope for the sake of Japan and the world that a new and effective quarantine for passengers is implemented much like the US, Australia, Canada, etc. are now doing. Roaming free in Japan would be a disaster.

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On 2/17/2020 at 7:03 AM, Kmkub said:

Excellent explanation. If I had to guess, I'd bet that handrails on a cruise ship are cleaner than your average grocery store cart handle.

 

It makes me shudder when a woman leaves a public toilet stall and exits the bathroom without washing up. She's spreading germs everywhere she goes. Hopefully she washes those hands before prepping the next meal.

 

 

I think cruise ships should have an automatic sensor by the door saying, "Wash your hands please".

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9 hours ago, em-sk said:

 

What is odd about all of this is for the US and Canada they are requiring an additional 14 day quarantine away from the ship.  Sounds like that is not a requirement if staying in Japan.  

 

 

Japan is crazy and negligent if they don't require additional quarantine on land given all the recent cases diagnosed.

They run a huge risk of it spreading on land if they just let people loose

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7 hours ago, kathy49 said:

As I said “the quarantine failed these passengers” and I would add the crew too...!

Incorrect.  But I know what you meant.

 

Quarantine accomplished its goal so far of not spreading the virus to shore.

What failed the passengers is the isolation measures implemented on board the ship

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5 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

 

I think by now, most rational people realize that the quarantine was pretty much a dramatic failure in preventing the disease from spreading on the ship.  Yeah, it prevented the disease from spreading on land, but it put nearly 4,000 people at risk for a potentially deadly disease.  After a couple of days, plans should have been in place to remove passengers and place them in isolation.  Instead a couple of weeks go by and we all see more and more getting sick.

 

Needs of the many vs. needs of the few I suppose...  Regardless, I really feel that Japan screwed up by taking the "wait and see" method, while passengers' own countries couldn't interfere in this process.  I'm just glad that people are finally being removed, but is it "too little, too late"?  We shall see.

 

Overall, I really do have to commend the Princess crew and company in how they handled it.  They were stuck between a rock and hard place and did the best they could.  I've yet to sail on a Princess ship (not until 2021), but the way they handled things makes me lean a lot more to sailing with them for future cruises.

 

 

Ummm yeah - sorry this may come across as harsh but Japan had to concern themselves more with the needs of the 126 million people than 4000 people on a ship.  

 

And just where would Japan or any country for that matter have 4,000 ready to go isolation spaces at the drop of a hat.  Ever consider the fast moving and unknown nature of this,  The logistic involved in doing what you suggested.  All those things take time.  Which is why sadly, keeping the passengers on board in isolation was the best option available at that time.  Since then the situation evolved, other governments agreed to fly home their citizens and out them in isolation in their home country, etc.  But again, all of that takes time and planning

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1 hour ago, bluesea321 said:

                                                   (snip)

Those that have so far tested negative may well test positive after they are off the ship (see the video for conditions on the ship). I hope for the sake of Japan and the world that a new and effective quarantine for passengers is implemented much like the US, Australia, Canada, etc. are now doing. Roaming free in Japan would be a disaster.

The Japanese have come into a lot of criticism for its handling of the Diamond Princess nightmare. However, it's worth noting that the Hal Westerdam was refused embarkation at the United States Territory of Guam, despite the fact there were 600 American citizens on board. I shudder to think what "life" would be like on the Diamond Princess today, if Japan hadn't thrown her a lifebelt - well done Japan.

Problem is, the United Nations should have implemented internationally binding protocols in place after the 2003 SARS-Col virus crisis. This started in the Guandong Province of southern China and was believed to started in civit cats via bats.

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@gvre and anyone else who cancelled after January 20, from the Princess site:

February 15, 2020 at 10:40PM PT

Updated Cancellation Policy

Guests booked on an Asia cancelled cruise, and have cancelled their booking on or after January 20, 2020, will receive details on a compensation package in the coming weeks.

 

Diamond Princess Voyage Cancellations

Voyage Departure Date Departure Port
M009 March 15, 2020 Roundtrip from Tokyo (Yokohama)
M009A March 15, 2020 Roundtrip from Tokyo (Yokohama)
M010 March 24, 2020 Roundtrip from Tokyo (Yokohama)
M010A March 24, 2020 Roundtrip from Tokyo (Yokohama)
M011 April 2, 2020 Roundtrip from Tokyo (Yokohama)
M011A April 2, 2020 Roundtrip from Tokyo (Yokohama)
M012 April 11, 2020 Roundtrip from Tokyo (Yokohama)
M012A April 11, 2020 Roundtrip from Tokyo (Yokohama)
M013 April 20, 2020 Roundtrip from Tokyo (Yokohama
Edited by jwattle

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