Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[Pushka]

4 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

I'm a little confused with the letter about not being able to travel into the US. Forgive me if I'm missing something (it's very possible I am) but this ban is to prevent these people coming into the US and possibly infecting others, correct? I get it. However, there seems to be nothing in place to stop them possibly infecting someone that IS permitted to travel to the US (or any country) and thus having that "3rd party" infect others. So, doesn't it kind of defeat the purpose?

 

There is a limit on what any Government can do under these circumstances. 

[icat2000]

8 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Ive now read that Australians who dont take that flight will not be allowed back into Australia until 14 days from the departure from the ship. 

Should apply to any nationality from that ship. 

[ed01106]

3 hours ago, chipmaster said:

A recent study showing death rate based on age of the infected,  not pretty for the elder folks

 

Will be interesting to see what happens to all the Princess confirmed cases if they end up with a similar profile or based on Japanese and possibly better care it has a different trend. 

 

 

pleasantly surprised by the under 10 group.  Not at all surprised that old folks who offen have other health issues are affected worse, but under 9 are usually much worse off than 10-59.  

[gottagocit]

10 hours ago, DesertSailors said:

Interesting video just posted.  My thoughts continue to be with all who were on the ship and continue to be there.
 

 

After working nearly 30 years in an industry where everything depends on keeping invisible contaminated material in contaminated areas and out of clean ones I can understand how shocked he must have been to witness the things he describes here.

 

If his is an accurate description of the true situation onboard many basic practices needed to prevent spreading the disease are being ignored and I simply find that stunning. With the conditions he describes I would expect every passenger and crew member will become, or already is, infected as will the Japanese officials who are coming and going onto the ship.  

 

I don’t mean to contribute to the wild speculation I’ve seen in this thread and I have not posted comments in it to this point but after seeing this video I couldn’t help but add my thoughts. 
 

I hope someone will get involved who can affect the processes being used here and prevent further spreading of this disease. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by gottagocit

[NSWP]

21 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Ive now read that Australians who dont take that flight will not be allowed back into Australia until 14 days from the departure from the ship. 

And god only knows when the ship will depart, could be weeks.

[d9704011]

3 hours ago, chipmaster said:

A recent study showing death rate based on age of the infected,  not pretty for the elder folks

 

Will be interesting to see what happens to all the Princess confirmed cases if they end up with a similar profile or based on Japanese and possibly better care it has a different trend. 

 

 

As far as I know there have been no deaths among the Diamond Princess passengers and crew.  Hopefully, there will not be a ‘death by age’ distribution chart and your interest in seeing how it works out will not be satisfied.

[em-sk]

1 hour ago, hal2008 said:

Looking for some clarifications form people who the details about testing.

 

1. How can some countries do hundreds of tests pretty quickly burt Japan has been doing only handful per day and takking 2-3 days for the results?

 

2. Are these tests done on DP pax same as those beong done on Westerdam pax in combodia?

 

3. CDC web site seems to indicate that rRT-PCR test should take 4 hours. so why so many places are talking about 2-3 days?

 

(will also enquire in HAL forum)

 

In Canada there is a quick test done at the local provincial laboratories.  They are using the "presumed confirmed" term to describe anyone that test positive on this.  A more involved and definitive test is then done by shipping the sample to the nation lab in Winnipeg who then provide a confirmed reading.  Likely the same in other countries.    You might see similar setups in other countries.   

 

 

 

 

 

[LizNeedsAVacation]

13 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

pleasantly surprised by the under 10 group.  Not at all surprised that old folks who offen have other health issues are affected worse, but under 9 are usually much worse off than 10-59.  

I read this article a few days ago. Of course, we only know what we know...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/health/coronavirus-children.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

[Coral]

1 hour ago, hal2008 said:

Looking for some clarifications form people who the details about testing.

 

1. How can some countries do hundreds of tests pretty quickly burt Japan has been doing only handful per day and takking 2-3 days for the results?

 

2. Are these tests done on DP pax same as those beong done on Westerdam pax in combodia?

 

3. CDC web site seems to indicate that rRT-PCR test should take 4 hours. so why so many places are talking about 2-3 days?

 

(will also enquire in HAL forum)

There was an article done in our local paper (Omaha - where we have some Diamond Princess passengers):

 

https://www.omaha.com/livewellnebraska/coronavirus-test-results-for-in-quarantine-require-cdc-confirmation-meaning/article_3c51b0a3-c4e5-58a6-9ea5-08a1a310e7d4.html

 

Important part: 

Nebraska Medicine officials said Tuesday that the Nebraska Public Health Laboratory had completed testing of the 13 travelers. However, the lab’s tests must be sent to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for confirmation. That means a likely delay of several days before the results are available, Nebraska Medicine officials said.

 

The Nebraska lab, situated on the medical center campus, currently is one of three state public health laboratories that have successfully verified the assay used in the testing and now is certified to perform the diagnostic test. The assay was developed by the CDC. It was unclear why the tests in Omaha required CDC verification.

 

------

 

Last week, they were able to not have the CDC review the results from someone from Wuhan who is being held 30 minutes away (Camp Ashland). They did 2 tests, 24 hours apart and reported the results quickly (she was negative both times).

 

This explains the 4-6 hours vs the 2-3 days in the US. Though just read your question and it is in reference to different countries. I thought this was interesting enough to post.

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Coral

[BSocial]

36 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Ive now read that Australians who dont take that flight will not be allowed back into Australia until 14 days from the departure from the ship. 

But what’s to stop any of the remaining Americans on the ship, from flying to Australia, for example, to wait out the US 14 day ban?  
 

 Australia can flag their own passports from entry - but they won’t have the details of the American passports, right?  This seems like a flaw

 

 Same example for US ban.  They are not banning the UK or Australia passengers on board, for 14 days after release, correct.?

Edited February 19, 2020 by BSocial
Clarify

[Psoque]

3 hours ago, chipmaster said:

A recent study showing death rate based on age of the infected,  not pretty for the elder folks

 

Will be interesting to see what happens to all the Princess confirmed cases if they end up with a similar profile or based on Japanese and possibly better care it has a different trend. 

 

 

From where is this data from?  I'm assuming this is from China, since there's not enough deaths outside of China to do any statistics like this.  What's really weird is that the raw death rate outside China is much less.

[bluesea321]

2 minutes ago, BSocial said:

But what’s to stop any of the remaining Americans on the ship, from flying to Australia, for example, to wait out the US 14 day ban?  
 

 Australia can flag their own passports from entry - but they won’t have the details of the American passports, right?  This seems like a flaw

 

 Same example for US ban.  They are not banning the UK or Australia passengers on board, for 14 days after release, correct.?

 

I fully agree and thus my concern about letting the remaining passengers off the ship without a proper quarantine off site. Not a good plan IMO.

[Psoque]

9 hours ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

Unfortunately this is what the virus is going to do to our human institutions.  The government tries hard to contain it, the containment fails, and now we distrust everything about our government. I honestly do not think that there is much different that could have been done on the cruise ship that would have changed the outcome, the problem from my perspective is that a lot of people were confined to their cabins for no benefit at all, while sick passengers were taken off of the ship where they could (and possibly did) infect a major metropolitan city.   

 

Trump's decision to bring back the Americans is going to haunt him, I think -- even though in my opinion the virus is already here and probably spreading.   We just are not doing the testing to find out.   The Cruise ship is not that unique of an environment (think "large hotel") except that everybody is contained and can be tested.   We already have an "unusually bad" 'flu season for some reason....

The containment of the virus within Diamond Princess did not fail, mostly, until the evacuation.  What failed was isolation of infectious individuals (which were not that easy to identify) within the ship.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Psoque

[Stateroom_Sailor]

52 minutes ago, cruiserchuck said:

So it is being reported that the passengers are being taken by bus to the nearest train station.  I would not feel safe being anywhere in Japan at this time.

 

I wanted to believe that there was a clever plan in place for Feb 19th, and that the separate facility on land proposed to be done in phases, was the start of a brilliant phase 2.  Unfortunately, this turns out to have been a big mess, already risking the mainland from amateur procedures and wishy-washy protocol from the healthcare workers alone.

 

We're going to start cancelling our Westerdam plans for April 2020.   

[LizNeedsAVacation]

5 minutes ago, BSocial said:

But what’s to stop any of the remaining Americans on the ship, from flying to Australia, for example, to wait out the US 14 day ban?  
 

 Australia can flag their own passports from entry - but they won’t have the details of the American passports, right?  This seems like a flaw

 

 Same example for US ban.  They are not banning the UK or Australia passengers on board, for 14 days after release, correct.?

I don’t know if countries share restricted traveler info with others. One could hope.

 

Also not sure that various governments have full manifests of cruise passengers that are not their own citizens.

 

Nothing to do but wait and see I think. 

[bluesea321]

The disembarkation, which already started, is likely to spread the virus but who am I to know. Hope I am wrong.

 

"Japan will ask those with negative results to provide their contact information and will give them instructions for what to do if they start feeling sick, the ministry’s notice said. The measures may not be enough to curtail the virus that has spread rapidly throughout the ship, health officials said. With people aboard hailing from more than 50 countries, the end of the quarantine raises worries the vessel could become the source of a fresh wave of global infections."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/19/national/diamond-princess-covid19-quarantine/#.XkyYFBNKjPA

 

[Pushka]

23 minutes ago, BSocial said:

But what’s to stop any of the remaining Americans on the ship, from flying to Australia, for example, to wait out the US 14 day ban?  
 

 Australia can flag their own passports from entry - but they won’t have the details of the American passports, right?  This seems like a flaw

 

 Same example for US ban.  They are not banning the UK or Australia passengers on board, for 14 days after release, correct.?

 

Yes, I agree. It is all based on the assumption that on disembarkation everyone will just fly back to their country of citizenship. And the USA could be flooded with infected Australians. 😁

 

I do know that by plugging my passport info into a particular website (US one) that my travel history, none of which related to travel in the USA, was revealed. 

 

In reality I suspect that border entry in Aus and USA might question everyone whose last stop before the flight was Tokyo and they would be taken aside for questioning. 

 

And I still cannot believe people will just walk off the ship.

 

Next question - if they were negative why were the Abels put into Hostel accommodation yesterday when people are just walking off today....

Edited February 19, 2020 by Pushka

[azbirdmom]

Somehow missed this earlier when I was checking the various Twitter feeds

 

[JennAngel9]

I cannot believe that Japan, seeing the numbers on the Diamond Princess, is going to do this to its citizens.  If news reports are accurate, it's almost like they said "well, we can't possibly screw up the situation worse than we did on DP, so let's just give up and see what happens when we introduce it into our public transportation system."

[bluesea321]

Just now, Pushka said:

Yes, I agree. It is all based on the assumption that on disembarkation everyone will just fly back to their country of citizenship. And the USA could be flooded with infected Australians. 😁

 

In reality I suspect that border entry in Aus and USA might question everyone whose last stop before the flight was Tokyo and they would be taken aside for questioning. 

 

And I still cannot believe people will just walk off the ship.

 

They are walking off the ship as I write this. See my previous posts on this page. The US will prevent its own citizens from coming back until March 4 but they will be free to roam around Tokyo or beyond. 

[BSocial]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

 

Yes, I agree. It is all based on the assumption that on disembarkation everyone will just fly back to their country of citizenship. And the USA could be flooded with infected Australians. 😁

 

In reality I suspect that border entry in Aus and USA might question everyone whose last stop before the flight was Tokyo and they would be taken aside for questioning. 

 

And I still cannot believe people will just walk off the ship.

I can’t believe it, either!  
 

those were just examples I used - more likely US passengers may fly to Australia, than Aussies to US.   I like your sense of humor, though !!

[Cruising Is Bliss]

2 hours ago, hal2008 said:

Looking for some clarifications form people who the details about testing.

 

1. How can some countries do hundreds of tests pretty quickly burt Japan has been doing only handful per day and takking 2-3 days for the results?

 

2. Are these tests done on DP pax same as those beong done on Westerdam pax in combodia?

 

3. CDC web site seems to indicate that rRT-PCR test should take 4 hours. so why so many places are talking about 2-3 days?

 

(will also enquire in HAL forum)

 

One test takes that long. Doesn't mean a lab can do hundreds of tests all in the same four hour period. This is a specialized test requiring a trained lab person, expensive lab equipment, and virus specific testing supplies.

 

Same test as Westerdam passengers. There's only one test for the virus and the test kits are in short supply everywhere.

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Cruising Is Bliss

[mking8288]

1 hour ago, gottagocit said:

... If  ... an accurate description of the true situation onboard many basic practices needed to prevent spreading the disease are being ignored and ... expect every passenger and crew member will become, or already is, infected as will officials who are coming and going onto the ship.  

 

I don’t mean to contribute to the wild speculation ... someone will get involved who can affect the processes being used here and prevent further spreading of this disease. 

 

Concur, and I couldn't help but refreshed my mind from NIMS training & FEMA drills and full scale/tabletop OEM disaster planning on CBRE preparedness ... even if that is a somewhat reasonable narrative of what he briefly observed onboard ... especially now that we know the virus can spread in droplets but not sure about staying alive while airborne.  It seemed to be a hybrid mix of PPE, between Level D and C - but, without a sterile and transition; and/or a decon area to wash down & safely bagging and disposing of soiled & infectious items - which isn't easily done in the confined ship environment as folks move about.  

 

The ninja carrier can be "hidden" and asymptomatic easily for 14 days, but accordingly, possibly for as long as 3+ weeks (not to trigger more panic, fear or paranoid on "what if's" and) in a healthier person, can possibly evade and test negative until very, very late stage.  It seemed different health authorities and countries are not necessary using the same screening tests and/or lab results to interpret the findings of the specimen collected.  The couple on the Westerdam were at sea for more than 2 weeks and were screened multiple times ... well, not to go off tangent.  

 

The protective shield or bubble as arranged now, maybe, isn't enough - and it helped explain, IMHO, reports from mainland China that upwards of 1,700 health care professionals on the frontline had been infected ... they are surely putting on gloves, wearing N95 and/or surgical masks, doing proper hand washes, etc. 

 

Hong Kong government has 2 teams on the ground in Japan, planning to extract as many as 352 residents, 260 of them holding HK-SAR passports and 92 with passports issued by other countries - 50 of them said to be tested positive (that's about 1 out of 8 being infected, 14% to be precise) - based on the latest news by HK's Sing Tao Daily - 

https://std.stheadline.com/instant/articles/detail/1204244/即時-香港-鑽石公主號50港人確診肺炎-專家指病毒非常活躍回港須隔離

 

(Brief summary:) HK reps in Japan had been informed that perhaps, "most" of them will be released & able to fly back to HK on waiting chartered flights as early as Feb. 19th, accompanied by a medical team and PPE gears brought along - still working on/negotiating the details to evacuate them.  Those that tested positive will be staying in Japan until ...  Those that can fly back (negative test results/screening) will be going directly to designated facilities and not home, for 14 days or longer.  Local residents in HK are equally fearful, concerned and do NOT want them to be wandering freely in a simple transition as they do not wish to see more secondary infection by a possible silent carrier or super spreader.  

 

With each passing day, it seemed that while the strategy to isolate is working, the measures in place aren't sufficient to prevent cross-infection and secondary spreading of the virus, and, I don't like to use the term, "mushrooming" to label those numerical growth onboard the Princess. The steaming batches of hot potato clusters are squarely in the hands of the Japan authorities.  Perhaps, WHO as the global advisory body needs to really step up to the plate.  

Edited February 19, 2020 by mking8288

[Earthworm Jim]

1 hour ago, BSocial said:

Thanks for the replies.  Was wondering -

 

What is preventing them, once released this week, from flying elsewhere (NOT USA), and booking a 2-week cruise?  They have to live somewhere until they are allowed to return home.   Is it possible they could fly to Australia and board another ship?  That would be unsettling to some 

 

 

If I was just cooped up in my cabin for 2 weeks on a cruise ship, the last thing I'd want it to immediately get on another cruise ship.

 

1 hour ago, icat2000 said:

Why would other countries not follow the US approach. If its not okay to come back to the US for certain period of time why would it be acceptable for any other country to allow them in? 

 

Well, Japan is apparently letting them travel the country, so they and the US seem to have a different opinion over whether it's safe or not. Perhaps other nations have similarly differing opinions. (Personally, I don't think it is safe. But every nation has many people far more qualified than me to make such a judgement.)

 

[bluesea321]

3 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

HK reps in Japan had been informed that perhaps, "most" of them will be released & able to fly back to HK on waiting chartered flights as early as Feb. 19th, accompanied by a medical team and PPE gears brought along - still working on/negotiating the details to evacuate them.  Those that tested positive will be staying in Japan until ...  Those that can fly back (negative test results/screening) will be going directly to designated facilities and not home, for 14 days or longer...

 

Every country that is repatriating citizens are quarantining them for 14 days in a proper facility but somehow Japan will let passengers from the ship roam freely through their own country thus raising the possibility or likelihood or further infections on land. Seems incredible to me. Oh well.