Noro on Caribbean Princess, again

[Colo Cruiser]

42 minutes ago, burrma said:

So did Norwalk break out again on Caribbean Princess or Sea Princess.  I fully agree; Norwalk is everywhere  and cruise lines have to report it much quicker than others and many places never report it Yes I got it after 158 cruises on recent Caribbean Princess but attention to detail was fabulous;  unfortunately   it could not be controlled because a few people; would not adhere and scrub at entrance way(saw many just walk through with cheap excuse)  plus people  came out of their cabins who were quarantined.  Princess was fabulous to deal with it plus fabulous reimbursement and compensation  for only getting 11 days cruise instead of 14 plus they paid for us to stay at top scale hotels. Way to go Princess. 

Thread is about the Caribbean Princess.

The OP referred to the Caribbean Princess as CP, Thrak posted the correct abbreviation for Caribbean Princess which is CB.

CP is designated for Sea Princess.

 

One does not really know how it is contracted. It is all speculation. 

[burrma]

19 minutes ago, Colo Cruiser said:

Thread is about the Caribbean Princess.

The OP referred to the Caribbean Princess as CP, Thrak posted the correct abbreviation for Caribbean Princess which is CB.

CP is designated for Sea Princess.

 

One does not really know how it is contracted. It is all speculation. 

Thanks; very true; no true reason how it's caught. 

[bookmama22]

My husband and I contracted norovirus at the end of a cruise on Ruby Princess, Eastern Caribbean in March 2013. We reported to medical and our steward was aware as thankfully we weren't all that bad however a passenger in our corridor was taken off by stretcher when we disembarked in Fort Lauderdale as well as other passengers. Our luggage had been placed outside our door the night before for us to pick up in the cruise terminal and I had gotten sick in the middle of that night. My husband had a low grade fever. 

 

So.. despite reporting to medical for assistance we did have to leave our room and wait to disembark in our designated waiting area. My thought back then and again on our recent cruise was that our room would be cleansed thoroughly but what about the couch we were sitting in in the area we had to wait? How often are the common areas cleaned thoroughly.

 

Follow up was that we never heard from Princess ever following our cruise although I did learn from these boards that the outbreak was traced to the Turks and Caicos stop which was our stop en route back to Fort Lauderdale as opposed to Princess Cays. That stop was taken off the ship itineraries for several months but I assume resumed later that year.

 

So this past cruise earlier this month was our first Princess cruise in 7 years.. always careful about touching buttons in elevators and not touching hand rails when walking up/down stairs. Try to never use public restrooms, especially as they didn't seem to have hot water. Try to spend a fair amount of time relaxing on our balcony with our books and our wine.

[frankdp]

I am the wife of the person who started this thread. We came onboard with peroxide wipes and immediately wiped our cabin down when we entered. We have never used a public restroom on board, never even set food in the buffet, used our knuckles on every button, washed our hands with soap continuously and used sanitizing gel at every opportunity and still he got the virus. We did not fly to Ft Lauderdale we drove. Princess’s crew is continually sanitizing every part of the ship so I really don’t know what the answer is on how to avoid getting sick other passengers MUST take responsibility for themselves and follow all directions of the crew. And, if you get sick REPORT IT and stay in your cabin until you are allowed to leave. Do not be selfish and only think of yourself....there are a lot of people on board who do not want to get sick because you didn’t follow orders.

[Daniel A]

Most health departments emphasize that one does not get Norovirus from someone coughing or sneezing.  Noro is contracted by touching a contaminated surface with your hands and then placing your now contaminated hands in your mouth.  One of the best preventative techniques in addition to the other very good precautions (frequent hand washing, avoiding contact with handrails, door handles, elevator buttons etc...) is to be conscious all the time about placing your fingers in your mouth. Norovirus is consumed orally by the victim. 

[Dandylyon]

On 2/21/2020 at 6:14 PM, satxdiver said:

  I often wondered what they would say if I entered the WFM/HC and put on food handlers gloves before I attempted to serve myself.  

I plan on bringing some with me for my next cruise in April.

[ano]

On 2/21/2020 at 4:00 PM, Hopperhop said:

I am so sorry to hear this.  We were on the last cruise, the one that had to return to port early.  My wife and I were fortunate and did not have the norovirus anytime during the cruise.  

 

I was wondering if Princess would be smart enough to continue to have sink/handwashing monitors in the buffet and also to have the staff dispensing the food so none of the utensils were touched by numerous passengers.  Did they do that or was it back to normal with no handwashing/sink monitors and all of the buffet items being self service?  They started doing that on our cruise after a certain number of passengers had noro but it was pretty much like closing the barn door after the horse was already out.

 

We still had a great time on the cruise even though we did not get to any of the new ports we were looking forward to visiting.  Much better than being in the freezing cold Midwest.  I thought what they did for all of us was quite fair and I know that it must have cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars in addition to the  bad publicity.  Seems kind of penny wise and dollar foolish to not have, at a minimum, the handwashing/sink monitors.  

Oceania ALWAYS has the staff dispensing food in the cafeteria, so maybe Princess can learn something from this.  That will take more staff, so probably won't happen. 

[ano]

6 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Most health departments emphasize that one does not get Norovirus from someone coughing or sneezing.  Noro is contracted by touching a contaminated surface with your hands and then placing your now contaminated hands in your mouth.

So are you saying if someone coughs or sneezes on food, then someone else puts that food in their mouth, that isn't a problem?  Thinking that coughing or sneezing never gets on food, is not correct. 

 

The ONLY solution here is put buffet food behind glass, then have staff serve it.  It works on other lines fine.  

Edited February 23, 2020 by ano
Addition

[cementhands]

13 hours ago, frankdp said:

I am the wife of the person who started this thread. We came onboard with peroxide wipes and immediately wiped our cabin down when we entered. We have never used a public restroom on board, never even set food in the buffet, used our knuckles on every button, washed our hands with soap continuously and used sanitizing gel at every opportunity and still he got the virus. We did not fly to Ft Lauderdale we drove. Princess’s crew is continually sanitizing every part of the ship so I really don’t know what the answer is on how to avoid getting sick other passengers MUST take responsibility for themselves and follow all directions of the crew. And, if you get sick REPORT IT and stay in your cabin until you are allowed to leave. Do not be selfish and only think of yourself....there are a lot of people on board who do not want to get sick because you didn’t follow orders.

We do the same thing. Never buffet. MDR only. Constantly washing our hands. Similar to you but my son was the only one who got sick in all of our 50 plus cruises. Same thing he reported to medical staff and was stuck in the room for a few days missing a key port. But we did the right thing. Excellent. Thanks for sharing. Side note that my wife is stage 3 cancer survivor and she avoids the hot tub and pool in addition to the buffet. Every cruise ship has the coughing people that don’t cover up. 

[chengkp75]

13 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Most health departments emphasize that one does not get Norovirus from someone coughing or sneezing.  Noro is contracted by touching a contaminated surface with your hands and then placing your now contaminated hands in your mouth.  One of the best preventative techniques in addition to the other very good precautions (frequent hand washing, avoiding contact with handrails, door handles, elevator buttons etc...) is to be conscious all the time about placing your fingers in your mouth. Norovirus is consumed orally by the victim. 

Another, more common transmission vector is to contaminate your hands, then touch those hands to food that you are going to eat (picking up a burger or fries), so that your hands do not need to go into your mouth to infect yourself.

7 hours ago, ano said:

So are you saying if someone coughs or sneezes on food, then someone else puts that food in their mouth, that isn't a problem?  Thinking that coughing or sneezing never gets on food, is not correct. 

 

The ONLY solution here is put buffet food behind glass, then have staff serve it.  It works on other lines fine.  

While it is true that coughing or sneezing will spread bacteria and viruses, noro is not a respiratory virus, but a gastro-intestinal virus, so coughing or sneezing will not spread noro.  The airborne transmission of noro is via vomit.

[SargassoPirate]

Just curious, are the tables in the Horizon Court pre set with drinkware during breakfast hours?  I've seen it and complained about it on every Princess cruise we've done.  We have seen the unused, inverted or right-side-up drinkware left on the table between passengers, the tables "cleaned" with a swipe of used cloth napkin and the the unused drinkware re-positioned for the next user.  Who's to say if the previous diners handled, sneezed on, or coughed on that drinkware?  Maybe they coughed into that napkin that the crew used to wipe down the table.

 

When I complain, I'm always told that it's corporate policy that the tables be pre-set at breakfast.

 

I always grab my own clean drinkware from one of the beverage stations and I never, ever unroll my silverware burrito and lay my eating utensils on the table.

[RocketMan275]

7 hours ago, ano said:

So are you saying if someone coughs or sneezes on food, then someone else puts that food in their mouth, that isn't a problem?  Thinking that coughing or sneezing never gets on food, is not correct. 

 

The ONLY solution here is put buffet food behind glass, then have staff serve it.  It works on other lines fine.  

Norovirus spreads very easily and quickly in different ways. You can get norovirus by accidentally getting tiny particles of poop or vomit from an infected person in your mouth. have direct contact with someone who is infected with norovirus, such as by caring for them or sharing food or eating utensils with them. -CDC. 

Not sure glass on the buffet will be a significant impediment to noro.  

[Daniel A]

8 hours ago, ano said:

So are you saying if someone coughs or sneezes on food, then someone else puts that food in their mouth, that isn't a problem?  Thinking that coughing or sneezing never gets on food, is not correct. 

 

The ONLY solution here is put buffet food behind glass, then have staff serve it.  It works on other lines fine.  

To answer your question, no - I did not say that someone sneezing or coughing on food isn't a problem.  It's just not the way Noro is spread.  I never said coughing or sneezing never gets on food.  CDC reports that infected food service workers are responsible for 70% of Norovirus transmissions.  Putting the food behind glass won't significantly block the spread of Noro since the food service workers will still be behind the glass with your food.

 

The best way of diminishing the chances of contracting Noro is to wash your own hands frequently and consistent application of well established infection control procedures.  Here is a chart from the CDC about contracting Noro

 

[Colo Cruiser]

8 hours ago, ano said:

Oceania ALWAYS has the staff dispensing food in the cafeteria, so maybe Princess can learn something from this.  That will take more staff, so probably won't happen. 

This is only a part of the entire mitigation process onboard.

 

Have sailed Oceania many times and they have outbreaks like any other cruise line.

[MissP22]

10 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

To answer your question, no - I did not say that someone sneezing or coughing on food isn't a problem.  It's just not the way Noro is spread.  I never said coughing or sneezing never gets on food.  CDC reports that infected food service workers are responsible for 70% of Norovirus transmissions.  Putting the food behind glass won't significantly block the spread of Noro since the food service workers will still be behind the glass with your food.

 

The best way of diminishing the chances of contracting Noro is to wash your own hands frequently and consistent application of well established infection control procedures.  Here is a chart from the CDC about contracting Noro

 

From what I read "The average person can touch their face up to 3000 times a day."

Looks like I'm eventually going to get something.😁

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, MissP22 said:

From what I read "The average person can touch their face up to 3000 times a day."

Looks like I'm eventually going to get something.😁

You could look at it like winning the lottery.

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, MissP22 said:

From what I read "The average person can touch their face up to 3000 times a day."

Looks like I'm eventually going to get something.😁

 

12 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

You could look at it like winning the lottery.

 

Yeah, but you need to buy up to 3000 tickets a day... 

[echoshipmate]

To the op that wondered about using food handler's gloves the the HC, we always do that. Have gotten some really weird looks from other pax, but never noro. 250 + days on princess, so not a newbie 

[PescadoAmarillo]

5 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Just curious, are the tables in the Horizon Court pre set with drinkware during breakfast hours?  I've seen it and complained about it on every Princess cruise we've done.  We have seen the unused, inverted or right-side-up drinkware left on the table between passengers, the tables "cleaned" with a swipe of used cloth napkin and the the unused drinkware re-positioned for the next user.  Who's to say if the previous diners handled, sneezed on, or coughed on that drinkware?  Maybe they coughed into that napkin that the crew used to wipe down the table.

 

When I complain, I'm always told that it's corporate policy that the tables be pre-set at breakfast.

 

I always grab my own clean drinkware from one of the beverage stations and I never, ever unroll my silverware burrito and lay my eating utensils on the table.

I couldn’t agree more. We find that so very disgusting. It was brought up in a CC meet and greet on the Majestic Princess and the HGM said it was a much faster way to serve passengers. Maybe we just need to wait a little longer. Tables do not get fully cleaned until the meal service in that area is done and it is closed off. I have seen it over and over where people (including crew) touch, sneeze, and cough on the cups and glasses as they get moved around. Or rose, pick up a cup or glass, stare into it to see if it looks clean, and, if it is, turn it over again on the table top. 
 

We open the napkin, fold part of it over and use it as a placemat. No way am I putting my utensils on that tabletop. 

[MissP22]

1 hour ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

We open the napkin, fold part of it over and use it as a placemat. No way am I putting my utensils on that tabletop. 

Since there are no more paper napkins to put your silverware on I just unroll 2 of the silverware sets & use one as a placemat. I'm certainly not placing my knife & fork on the dirty table.

[Daniel A]

3 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

We open the napkin, fold part of it over and use it as a placemat. No way am I putting my utensils on that tabletop. 

We bought about 5 of these Clorox Bleachless Disinfecting wipes packages.  We brought them on our last cruise and wiped down the surfaces in our stateroom and brought one with us each time we went to the buffet for our table top.  Each wipe cost us about 10 cents apiece.

 

 

 

[ed01106]

Seems like many of the problems are on Carnival lines. Costa ships had an issue in Rome, Princess Diamond, back to back nora on Caribbean, Westdam was HAL.

[capriccio]

19 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Seems like many of the problems are on Carnival lines. Costa ships had an issue in Rome, Princess Diamond, back to back nora on Caribbean, Westdam was HAL.

You should do some research before making such a sweeping statement:  https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm

[ed01106]

19 minutes ago, capriccio said:

You should do some research before making such a sweeping statement:  https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm

 

Carnival lines are prevalent on that list. 

[Colo Cruiser]

5 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

 

Carnival lines are prevalent on that list. 

Nothing to do with the Caribbean Princess.