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Braemar turned away from Dominican Republic


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On 3/9/2020 at 5:32 PM, Lottie A said:

However today two passengers on that Braemar cruise have now tested positive for Coronavirus. The crew will have been in contact with these passengers, as well as others onboard of course. Seems like The Dominican Republic made the right decision after all. 
As for saying it’s a mild illness...well the increasing infection rates and the rising deaths from the virus do not seem to bear that out anymore. I am a Doctor and I must confess I am now very worried. 

As for Braemar I would think it will be quarantined now which might turn the Four Fred’s in Funchal into the Three Fred’s. Sad for everyone who booked it. 

 

Maybe I had a lucky escape here. 

 

Just over a week ago  we were parked next to the Braemar in Tortola...

 

1882699364_Braemaralongside.jpg.b83b80ec6eacde41102a4d310ad2f15f.jpg

 

...and Grenada...

 

2108046243_PreziosaSharedberthwithBraemar.jpg.c69a9d46115e23c1dd6f8a0a7f406fbf.jpg

 

 

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Jackie, cruising  is till one of the safest ways to travel, not perhaps advised right at this moment but the same is true for any event where lots of people are gathered in close proximity. I would not go to the theatre or a sporting event at the moment. We could be infected with Covid-19 in work just as easily as on a cruise ship. 

I can understand you feel that Japan and Princess made victims of the Diamond Princess passengers but actually their actions probably saved lives. It was Japan making the decisions anyway and Princess has very little power to do anything other than comply with the Japanese authorities rules and in my medical opinion that was the correct thing to do. I wish Fred Olsen were as brave as Princess were. The fact that passengers are still wandering around Braemar and presumably will soon be on a commercial flight home, potentially infecting many others, quite frankly appals me. 

I hope the government quarantines all the passengers for 14 days when they arrive home but they may have infected others by then. I’m sorry for them but it is a fact that people cannot be trusted to self isolate in these circumstances. 
 

Edited by Lottie A
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1 hour ago, pinkpanther52 said:

 

Would not completely disagree with your point that cruises should possibly stop for sometime but cannot see this happening unless the Government orders a NO travel warning but quarantining people on cruise ships is madness, the isolation facilities are not there.

 

I have a cruise booked for May which is a long time away in this fluid situation incidentally with no flying envolved. The only thing that would worry me is the fact I may be involuntary confined to my cabin with No evidence I am ill possibly for 3 weeks then confined AGAIN when I am released. 

 

It it is completely unsustainable. People need to be brought home as soon as possible and self quarantine at home if required with all extra travel expenses paid by the cruise line or Government. If that is not sustainable then Maybe the cruise company WILL decide to halt cruising for a period of time. 

The cruise industry is dead for the year and will take a long time to recover.  The virus isn’t going to disappear, and a cruise ship is simply the worst place to be when there is risk of epidemic. Investors know this to be true - Carnival’s share price, over £4 a year or two back and £3.50 just recently, is now down to almost £1.50.

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40 minutes ago, Lottie A said:

Jackie, cruising  is till one of the safest ways to travel, not perhaps advised right at this moment but the same is true for any event where lots of people are gathered in close proximity. I would not go to the theatre or a sporting event at the moment. We could be infected with Covid-19 in work just as easily as on a cruise ship. 

I can understand you feel that Japan and Princess made victims of the Diamond Princess passengers but actually their actions probably saved lives. It was Japan making the decisions anyway and Princess has very little power to do anything other than comply with the Japanese authorities rules and in my medical opinion that was the correct thing to do. I wish Fred Olsen were as brave as Princess were. The fact that passengers are still wandering around Braemar and presumably will soon be on a commercial flight home, potentially infecting many others, quite frankly appals me. 

I hope the government quarantines all the passengers for 14 days when they arrive home but they may have infected others by then. I’m sorry for them but it is a fact that people cannot be trusted to self isolate in these circumstances. 
 

 

Hi Lottie I appreciate your insight as a Medical expert which in a way makes me even more concerned!!

 

But I do think in the 21st Century NO commercial organisation should be prepared to sacrifice thousands of people’s lives for monetary reasons. (Ok maybe living in cloud cuckoo land on that point ☹️) Their is no reason the poor souls should be put on a commercial flight that would be madness and I never meant that. What I would want to be done is for a special chartered flight to be laid on as an evacuation measure. 

 

If Fred are as “brave” as Princess well that is my cruise gone with a huge loss of money but at least I will still have my job and life. 

 

Lets hope it does not come to that, but at the moment I think cruising is an extremely high risk activity although only in relation to forced exposure to the virus in all other aspects it IS very safe but the prospect of forced detonation and deliberate exposure to the virus makes me very very wary of going on a cruise 

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I’m so sorry if you are financially affected Jackie. I am too, having just cancelled my Azamara cruise. 
Let’s hope this awful situation improves soon...but I do think we are in for a few months of great uncertainty and hard decisions. 
The cruise companies who do right by their customers now will benefit from their loyalty after this awful time is over. 
 

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9 minutes ago, Lottie A said:

I’m so sorry if you are financially affected Jackie. I am too, having just cancelled my Azamara cruise. 
Let’s hope this awful situation improves soon...but I do think we are in for a few months of great uncertainty and hard decisions. 
The cruise companies who do right by their customers now will benefit from their loyalty after this awful time is over. 
 

 

Hi Lottie SO Sorry you are financial affected by cancelling you cruise! Your opinions and  thoughts have made for some  interesting insights even though we may disagree on a plan of action in these dreadful times they are much appreciated

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3 minutes ago, pinkpanther52 said:

 

Hi Lottie SO Sorry you are financial affected by cancelling you cruise! Your opinions and  thoughts have made for some  interesting insights even though we may disagree on a plan of action in these dreadful times they are much appreciated

Thanks Jackie. I do understand your opinion too and can sympathise with it.

I am coming at it from a medical perspective and sadly, I think very hard decisions may have to be taken in order to protect our populace from mass infection.

 

The NHS are going to get more money....but what we need is more trained doctors and nurses and that takes at least 3-5 years. Today 83 new cases in the U.K. were found to be positive for Covid-19 including the Health Minister Nadine Dorries. 
 

No-one wants to be in a situation like Italy. The death rate there has jumped by 200 in just over 24 hours. 

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Anyone who has been on Braemar in rough weather will be very well aware that it is by far the least stable of Fred's ships and indeed any other ship we have been on and that is quite a lot of boats  (does not stop us being very fond of Braemar though).  My point is that a transatlantic would likely result in many cases of sea sickness, which will make things far worse from an infection perspective.  Apart from that it appears most infected people are crew, so I do not see the point of putting passengers in cabins to be brought food by crew when you consider they will be under increased pressure so more likely to cut corners to cope.  Also, most crew share cabins with three others and share a crew mess and dining facilities which must be way more crowded than any passenger facilities.  I do see that things like shows and certain activities should be curtailed though, but as shows are televised they could still be seen in cabins and the system could be used for talks etc.  I suspect many people will be avoiding such places/activities.  People who wish to stay away from others would be quite at liberty to stay in their cabins and order room service if they wish as well.

 

I can appreciate that the potential infection rate will not be low if passengers are flown home, but the point constantly made about this virus is that most people have a minor disease and the problems arise at a later stage when it becomes more serious in some people (Chris Whitty said last week that is usually about a week after the first onset of symptoms that the serious symptoms arise).  Hence by repatriating people they will be at home if this should arise and will be able to access far better medical facilities than can be provided on the ship, even though that will have great limitations as the pandemic worsens, even in the UK.  There will be limited staff in the ship's medical centre and what if they get ill themselves?  I would be far more concerned about the percentage of people who become seriously ill and die than the number of people infected with the virus.  It takes a long time for a ship to cross the Atlantic and it is now considered the incubation period is about 5 days, so a lot can happen during the journey.  To put it bluntly, I do wonder what sort of morgue facilities there are on Braemar.

 

I do not see the particular relevance of profession as opinions will differ and I accept that, but for the record I am a micro biologist. 

Edited by tring
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I also think all cruising should be suspended as there is no point in large numbers of people sailing to port after port infecting others and picking up more infection.  The virus is now in the open society and will be transmitted.

 

I am convinced the cruise companies are waiting to be told that cruises cannot continue by the WHO or various governments.  Insurance policies will pay up if the WHO or organisations such as the FCO in the UK advise against travel.  If the cruise companies pull the cruises themselves, they will be obliged to refund all passengers, which is the crunch.

Edited by tring
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Think there are four mortuary cabinets on Braemar. 

Also think this will be my last comment but having travelled on Braemar through a Force 10 storm a few months ago I agree she isn’t the most stable of ships. 
However....possible sea sickness v Covid-19 containment? I know which I would choose. 
As a micro biologist Trend I’m sure you know that Covid-19 sheds most around Day 5. Isolation during that period

is most effective at containing the spread. Flying people home to the U.K. on or near day 5 is the likelihood given the time scale of positive Coronavirus results on Braemar. I think this is foolish in the extreme. 
 

I do agree with you re the cruise companies self interest and financial plans. President Trump is due to make an announcement about Americans travel to Europe at 9pm EST tonight. This may hopefully focus all the cruise companies management on what they have to do for their customers. 
 

 

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3 hours ago, Lottie A said:

Jackie, cruising  is till one of the safest ways to travel, not perhaps advised right at this moment but the same is true for any event where lots of people are gathered in close proximity. I would not go to the theatre or a sporting event at the moment. We could be infected with Covid-19 in work just as easily as on a cruise ship. 

I can understand you feel that Japan and Princess made victims of the Diamond Princess passengers but actually their actions probably saved lives. It was Japan making the decisions anyway and Princess has very little power to do anything other than comply with the Japanese authorities rules and in my medical opinion that was the correct thing to do. I wish Fred Olsen were as brave as Princess were. The fact that passengers are still wandering around Braemar and presumably will soon be on a commercial flight home, potentially infecting many others, quite frankly appals me. 

I hope the government quarantines all the passengers for 14 days when they arrive home but they may have infected others by then. I’m sorry for them but it is a fact that people cannot be trusted to self isolate in these circumstances. 
 

There is no consensus within medical circles that how the quarantine on the Diamond Princess was the most effective way of handling the situation. It is widely reported that many people became infected during quarantine. It is also interesting to read the fallout where the Japanese authorities are blaming Princess for a botched quarantine with Princess stating they were taking their instructions from the Japanese. Hopefully, the truth will out as the cruise industry needs to learn from this. 

Edited by Omega1
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9 hours ago, Lottie A said:

Think there are four mortuary cabinets on Braemar. 

Also think this will be my last comment but having travelled on Braemar through a Force 10 storm a few months ago I agree she isn’t the most stable of ships. 
However....possible sea sickness v Covid-19 containment? I know which I would choose. 
As a micro biologist Trend I’m sure you know that Covid-19 sheds most around Day 5. Isolation during that period

is most effective at containing the spread. Flying people home to the U.K. on or near day 5 is the likelihood given the time scale of positive Coronavirus results on Braemar. I think this is foolish in the extreme. 
 

I do agree with you re the cruise companies self interest and financial plans. President Trump is due to make an announcement about Americans travel to Europe at 9pm EST tonight. This may hopefully focus all the cruise companies management on what they have to do for their customers. 
 

 

 

Well Trump has spoken.  Those sort of wide ranging decisions are clearly going to be necessary, though there does seem to be a certain group attacked there for political reasons.  At least he deferred to his scientific advisors last week rather than go with his thoughts of leaving people on Grand Princess to keep the infected cases away from his "Americans".  The point I was making with Braemar is that it is the crew who seem to have the highest infection level of infection, so seems no point leaving them to spread it around passengers who are confined to cabins and there is no one else to look after them, though yes more separation would be a good idea.  I also feel for the crew, as I am sure we all do.  If Fred leaves them on the ship to sail back at least they would have more space to spread out/isolate and hopefully, being younger, serious illness will not be a big issue.  I have no understanding why most people in the Dominican Republic agreed to board Braemar - especially as they would have had a right under the Package travel Regs to cancel, though that is not quite so easy if they booked after the new regs brought out last year (there are steps to follow).  Surprises me no one had the know how or ability to get advice re that, though luckily it is something to which we have good access.

 

I was not thinking "sea sickness v Covid-19 containment", so much as the effect of it on general hygiene levels (hence infection levels) and the thought of possible sickness + a bad chest infection increasing the chance of choking or inhalation of stomach contents, though I defer to your medical knowledge for that, my knowledge is from a research perspective.

 

It appears your concern is strongly connected to the effect on the British public and ability of the NHS to cope, which is a good point, but even then more cases of infection, especially very serious cases, being offloaded in the UK a week later (as problems increase here) seems to be more of a risk from my point of view.  We were away for 5 weeks until two weeks ago, so missed a fair bit of the news, but I think the Wuhan evacuees were brought back in a plane and coaches when they were well spread out, so less likely to transmit the infection to each other.  That should obviously be done now, though cost is more likely to be the order of the day unfortunately.

 

Despite differences in opinion we all want what is "best" whatever that is and I have no wish to argue.  We are booked on Black Watch for a mini cruise in a couple of weeks and again for the Mystery in April and are feeling reasonably confident that they will be cancelled, (especially the April one), but if not, at this stage we will suffer the financial loss rather than go.  That is easy for us though as we have recently had a good holiday and can stand the loss.  We have other arrangements for later in the year, so not much point changing to another cruise which we do not want.  Would not mind Fred bringing out the sort of T&C's that P&O have just done, though that in itself also shows how worried the cruise companies are about this and their ability to recover from it.  I wonder if Fred will survive considering it is well know big sister (as chair of the overall FO business) has wanted the cruise line gone for some time.

 

It is a shame politics are governing the response to the pandemic - I can see there is no wish to cause unnecessary losses for business etc., but I do wonder whether acting quicker and more drastically would prevent more losses in the long term. 

Edited by tring
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Yes, the UK can cope with whatever the level of infection is on the Braemar when it reaches (presumably) Southampton.

 

Like most countries, we are simply waiting now until the level of infection reaches the level sufficient to justify a nationwide quarantine, like Italy.  I expect the US will arrive at the same conclusion pretty soon; despite the shameful politics of yesterday's announcement, it is welcome that every country now realises how serious a crisis this will be.

 

My expectation will be that the cruising industry as a whole will soon be suspended for the rest of the year.  To be fair, once countries start going into lockdown, there isn't going to be a lot of foreign travel period.

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New travel advisory statement from Fred today regarding Braemar. Seems they have been denied berthing in Barbados and are now heading towards The Bahamas, hoping to be able to berth there. The next cruise has been cancelled of course. http://media.fredolsencruises.com/news/braemars-western-caribbean-and-central-america-fly-cruise-update-12-slash-03-slash-2020-396861?fbclid=IwAR3ARZhY7RXJZLq8RAhJMw_dtbEL6tD5v36WCjOgZKaOtHrvKKoADLSTmgA

 

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14 hours ago, tring said:

I also think all cruising should be suspended as there is no point in large numbers of people sailing to port after port infecting others and picking up more infection.  The virus is now in the open society and will be transmitted.

 

I am convinced the cruise companies are waiting to be told that cruises cannot continue by the WHO or various governments.  Insurance policies will pay up if the WHO or organisations such as the FCO in the UK advise against travel.  If the cruise companies pull the cruises themselves, they will be obliged to refund all passengers, which is the crunch.

I think you are spot on. Marella are doing the head in the sand game at the moment saying there are no issues onboard any ship and all sailings are going ahead (except Discovery in Asia). They don’t want to cancel and refund themselves and if the “do not travel/cruise” notice is issued by the FCO people will claim on their insurance, Marella keep their money.

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58 minutes ago, kevinyork said:

I think you are spot on. Marella are doing the head in the sand game at the moment saying there are no issues onboard any ship and all sailings are going ahead (except Discovery in Asia). They don’t want to cancel and refund themselves and if the “do not travel/cruise” notice is issued by the FCO people will claim on their insurance, Marella keep their money.

 

Yes this is not just a Fred thing.  Just seen the breaking news on BBC 24hr news that Princess are to stop cruising - forget the exact wording so best to check that yourself as I have seen errors in their text when it first comes on.

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2 hours ago, Lottie A said:

New travel advisory statement from Fred today regarding Braemar. Seems they have been denied berthing in Barbados and are now heading towards The Bahamas, hoping to be able to berth there. The next cruise has been cancelled of course. http://media.fredolsencruises.com/news/braemars-western-caribbean-and-central-america-fly-cruise-update-12-slash-03-slash-2020-396861?fbclid=IwAR3ARZhY7RXJZLq8RAhJMw_dtbEL6tD5v36WCjOgZKaOtHrvKKoADLSTmgA

 

 

Thanks for the link which I see has only been released this morning.  As I understood it they knew they were heading for the Bahamas a day or so ago, so Fred being a bit coy - surprise, surprise.  Good to see they are following the advise of Public Health England, which realistically he had to do when you think a bout it.  That puts all of us and our opinions in place I guess 🙂  I should think few people on board, if any, will want to spend any length of time in the restaurants or anywhere else public for that matter.   

 

I do hope all passengers and crew continue to be OK and avoid serious illness.

 

Looks like Princess have thrown in the towel, I wonder if the rest will fall like a bunch of cards.  Fred may regret not making a better T&C change as he could have got people to transfer, rather than be eligible for refunds, if he cancels cruises.

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44 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Thanks for the link which I see has only been released this morning.  As I understood it they knew they were heading for the Bahamas a day or so ago, so Fred being a bit coy - surprise, surprise.  Good to see they are following the advise of Public Health England, which realistically he had to do when you think a bout it.  That puts all of us and our opinions in place I guess 🙂  I should think few people on board, if any, will want to spend any length of time in the restaurants or anywhere else public for that matter.   

 

I do hope all passengers and crew continue to be OK and avoid serious illness.

 

Looks like Princess have thrown in the towel, I wonder if the rest will fall like a bunch of cards.  Fred may regret not making a better T&C change as he could have got people to transfer, rather than be eligible for refunds, if he cancels cruises.

Yes they have staedfastly con tinued saying we are going cruising, would not acknowledge that some passengers are frightened for themselves and their relatives. FO missed some real goodwill by doing the same as Celebrity and others and offering FCC or even some OBS if one does want to continue.

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2 hours ago, Pentlands said:

Yes they have staedfastly con tinued saying we are going cruising, would not acknowledge that some passengers are frightened for themselves and their relatives. FO missed some real goodwill by doing the same as Celebrity and others and offering FCC or even some OBS if one does want to continue.

They’ve been the same as Marella who are coming under pressure on social media for their “everything is fine” position.

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OK so UK press conference said people who are old or with health conditions should not cruise but did not say how old is old (that question from a journalist was ignored) or better explanation of health conditions.  I am just 70, have mild asthma - so do we go on our cruise in a couple of weeks (if it happens of course)?  Would like more clarity to say the least.  Grrrr......

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4 minutes ago, tring said:

OK so UK press conference said people who are old or with health conditions should not cruise but did not say how old is old (that question from a journalist was ignored) or better explanation of health conditions.  I am just 70, have mild asthma - so do we go on our cruise in a couple of weeks (if it happens of course)?  Would like more clarity to say the least.  Grrrr......

PM said people aged 70 or over, and people with pre-existing health issues should not cruise.

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1 minute ago, Les_ldh said:

PM said people aged 70 or over, and people with pre-existing health issues should not cruise.

 

Thanks I did not hear that, but Boris mutters so much that I do have difficulty understanding him at times.

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Tring, the advice discussed in the Welsh GP meeting recently was anyone 70 or over should not consider cruising for the next three months. The Prime Minister also mentioned 70 as the cut off age at the press meeting this afternoon. It is an individual decision whether to cancel of course....but if I was in that age group I would cancel. 

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13 minutes ago, tring said:

OK so UK press conference said people who are old or with health conditions should not cruise but did not say how old is old (that question from a journalist was ignored) or better explanation of health conditions.  I am just 70, have mild asthma - so do we go on our cruise in a couple of weeks (if it happens of course)?  Would like more clarity to say the least.  Grrrr......

Of course not.  Weren’t you listening?

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