Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)

[TwoMisfits]

2 minutes ago, NSWP said:

 

Grand has around 2600 pax and 1000 crew.   Capacity can extend to around 3000 pax if they use the fold down bunks in the 4 berth cabins.

So, hopefully, they don't have 1000+ already infected...I'm sure the reason we haven't heard what the option will be for passengers is they don't want to set a firm plan til they know the rough parameters.  20 sick and the Navy ship becomes possible.  1500, and they might as well all stay put.  2 and they might be able to come in and get folks off.

[kathy49]

13 minutes ago, Colo Cruiser said:

But they are at sea and they don't have a choice.  🤔

hey they can bring the test kits they can bring meals.

[WIDisCruiser]

Helicopter is back picking up the CDC folks that have been there all afternoon.  Parents are on board...

[Reader0108598]

1 hour ago, WIDisCruiser said:

Helicopter is back picking up the CDC folks that have been there all afternoon.  Parents are on board...

Hope your parents are well and stay healthy 🙂

 

[oskidunker]

Who's parents???

[resistk]

I think VP Pence is going to tell cruise line bosses to shut it down on Saturday; this is so sad, people go for a trouble free vacation and have nothing but troubles and worry.  Everyone else with pending cruises is on tenterhooks.  Cruise ships seem to be the perfect vector for spreading COVID 19 aroud the world.

[WIDisCruiser]

1 minute ago, Reader0108598 said:

Hope your parents are well and stay healthy 🙂

 

 

Thanks.  They are fine, just starting to get a bit stir crazy.

[MoniMommy]

1 minute ago, resistk said:

I think VP Pence is going to tell cruise line bosses to shut it down on Saturday; this is so sad, people go for a trouble free vacation and have nothing but troubles and worry.  Everyone else with pending cruises is on tenterhooks.  Cruise ships seem to be the perfect vector for spreading COVID 19 aroud the world.

What is the basis for this prediction. Not saying you are wrong, just wondering if this is pure speculation or if you have some inside knowledge.

[kathy49]

2 minutes ago, resistk said:

I think VP Pence is going to tell cruise line bosses to shut it down on Saturday; this is so sad, people go for a trouble free vacation and have nothing but troubles and worry.  Everyone else with pending cruises is on tenterhooks.  Cruise ships seem to be the perfect vector for spreading COVID 19 aroud the world.

if i might ask what makes you say that...I think it would be a good idea but can't imagine them doing it.

[TwoMisfits]

1 minute ago, resistk said:

I think VP Pence is going to tell cruise line bosses to shut it down on Saturday; this is so sad, people go for a trouble free vacation and have nothing but troubles and worry.  Everyone else with pending cruises is on tenterhooks.  Cruise ships seem to be the perfect vector for spreading COVID 19 aroud the world.

 

I think he'll only have the authority to have them cancel or reroute any US-based or US-stopping cruises...and I don't think it will be framed as a "shutdown", but as a "stand down", like the military does after they have 2 air accidents in a row (as an example).  I think training, retrofitting ships, and coming up with workable contigency plans and entry/exit/daily health checks for all passengers will be part of the "stand down" that will end when certain conditions are met (or the virus subsides - whichever comes 1st)...

[resistk]

Just now, kathy49 said:

if i might ask what makes you say that...I think it would be a good idea but can't imagine them doing it.

 

Pence meeting with the cruise lines on Saturday, he must have something to tell them:

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/22537-pence-unique-challenges-with-cruise-lines.html

 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

What's not true?

Any of what was said in that post. Here is the report from the WHO on what they found in China. It is dry reading. But anyone who wants to understand what we know about the virus right now should read this:

 

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

[flyguyjake]

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by flyguyjake

[AWorldCruise4Me]

https://abc7news.com/health/santa-clara-couple-now-sick-after-trip-on-princess-cruise-ship/5988147/

This poor couple is having trouble getting tested.

 

It looks like they have called 6 different places to get tested with each one telling them to call someone else. It looks like abc news is trying to help them find out who they can contact to get tested. It sounds like they are trying to do the responsible thing and keep away from others and notify a health care facility before showing up.

Edited March 6, 2020 by AWorldCruise4Me

[Pushka]

4 minutes ago, AWorldCruise4Me said:

This poor couple is having trouble getting tested.

https://abc7news.com/health/santa-clara-couple-now-sick-after-trip-on-princess-cruise-ship/5988147/

 

It looks like they have called 6 different places to get tested with each one telling them to call someone else. It looks like abc news is trying to help them find out who they can contact to get tested. It sounds like they are trying to do the responsible thing and keep away from others and notify a health care facility before showing up.

I don't understand. Can't they attend the nearest public hospital who will then test them in clinic set up for this virus? That's what happens in Australia. They would be tested immediately. 

[flyguyjake]

12 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I don't understand. Can't they attend the nearest public hospital who will then test them in clinic set up for this virus? That's what happens in Australia. They would be tested immediately. 

 

I don't think every hospital has tests stocked and ready to use. I think the CDC is still determining who they are testing. Test kits are just starting to go out to field locations (testing facilities), not every hospital. USA was very behind the 8 ball in getting these tests kits out. They have said the first batches of test kits were faulty so they had to scrap all of those and start over.

[HappyInVan]

14 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Any of what was said in that post. Here is the report from the WHO on what they found in China. It is dry reading. But anyone who wants to understand what we know about the virus right now should read this:

 

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

 

 

Actually, I read that report last week. From Page 12...

 

"Asymptomatic infection has been reported, but the majority of the relatively rare cases who are asymptomatic on the date of identification/report went on to develop disease. The proportion of truly asymptomatic infections is unclear but appears to be relatively rare and does not appear to be a major driver of transmission."

 

 AFAIK, there have not been any studies supporting the asymptomatic transmission school of thought. There have been preliminary anecdotal reports. This one is typical...

 

"Study claiming new coronavirus can be transmitted by people without symptoms was flawed...

 

Chinese researchers had previously suggested asymptomatic people might transmit the virus but had not presented clear-cut evidence. “There’s no doubt after reading [the NEJM] paper that asymptomatic transmission is occurring,” Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told journalists. “This study lays the question to rest.”

But now, it turns out that information was wrong. The Robert Koch Institute (RKI), the German government’s public health agency, has written a letter to NEJM to set the record straight, even though it was not involved in the paper...

 

 But the researchers didn’t actually speak to the woman before they published the paper. The last author, Michael Hoelscher of the Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich Medical Center, says the paper relied on information from the four other patients: “They told us that the patient from China did not appear to have any symptoms.” Afterward, however, RKI and the Health and Food Safety Authority of the state of Bavaria did talk to the Shanghai patient on the phone, and it turned out she did have symptoms while in Germany. According to people familiar with the call, she felt tired, suffered from muscle pain, and took paracetamol, a fever-lowering medication. (An RKI spokesperson would only confirm to Science that the woman had symptoms.).."

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/paper-non-symptomatic-patient-transmitting-coronavirus-wrong

 

So, that what happens when you're biased and jump the gun. WHO is ambivalent because it recognizes the difficulty of proving that asymptomatic transmission occurred. It doesn't want to discourage other reports. The medical community will cull through the preliminary reports.

 

The main weakness of the asymptomatic school is that they haven't demonstrated the alternate means of transmission. Does not occur by magic. It must occur through sweat or excrement etc. Prove it.

 

 

[CruisinCindy]

1 hour ago, flyguyjake said:

Wow that sounds very promising. Let's hope the tests come back negative!

 

We contacted our doctor yesterday to see if we could get tested, but they said no, even though we were on the Grand with confirmed cases.  The doctors are still requiring that you be symptomatic before they'll test, even though there are some people who can be positive but show no symptoms....

[flyguyjake]

2 minutes ago, CruisinCindy said:

We contacted our doctor yesterday to see if we could get tested, but they said no

 

Princess is supposedly trying to contact all of the prior passengers for testing. Perhaps give Princess a ring?

[Pushka]

9 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

 

I don't think every hospital has tests stocked and ready to use. I think the CDC is still determining who they are testing. Test kits are just starting to go out to field locations (testing facilities), not every hospital. USA was very behind the 8 ball in getting these tests kits out. They have said the first batches of test kits were faulty so they had to scrap all of those and start over.

But they've known this has been coming for many weeks. If we can get test kits in Australia to test everyone with a relevant history then it's crazy that the US hasn't done the same. And we do it for free!

[kathy49]

1 minute ago, flyguyjake said:

 

Princess is supposedly trying to contact all of the prior passengers for testing. Perhaps give Princess a ring?

they are contacting all passengers (at least they say they are) but not necessarily to test. Unless you have symptoms I don't think US is testing anyone unless maybe someone very close is positive.  

[clskinsfan]

15 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Actually, I read that report last week. From Page 12...

 

"Asymptomatic infection has been reported, but the majority of the relatively rare cases who are asymptomatic on the date of identification/report went on to develop disease. The proportion of truly asymptomatic infections is unclear but appears to be relatively rare and does not appear to be a major driver of transmission."

 

 AFAIK, there have not been any studies supporting the asymptomatic transmission school of thought. There have been preliminary anecdotal reports. This one is typical...

 

"Study claiming new coronavirus can be transmitted by people without symptoms was flawed...

 

Chinese researchers had previously suggested asymptomatic people might transmit the virus but had not presented clear-cut evidence. “There’s no doubt after reading [the NEJM] paper that asymptomatic transmission is occurring,” Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told journalists. “This study lays the question to rest.”

But now, it turns out that information was wrong. The Robert Koch Institute (RKI), the German government’s public health agency, has written a letter to NEJM to set the record straight, even though it was not involved in the paper...

 

 But the researchers didn’t actually speak to the woman before they published the paper. The last author, Michael Hoelscher of the Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich Medical Center, says the paper relied on information from the four other patients: “They told us that the patient from China did not appear to have any symptoms.” Afterward, however, RKI and the Health and Food Safety Authority of the state of Bavaria did talk to the Shanghai patient on the phone, and it turned out she did have symptoms while in Germany. According to people familiar with the call, she felt tired, suffered from muscle pain, and took paracetamol, a fever-lowering medication. (An RKI spokesperson would only confirm to Science that the woman had symptoms.).."

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/paper-non-symptomatic-patient-transmitting-coronavirus-wrong

 

So, that what happens when you're biased and jump the gun. WHO is ambivalent because it recognizes the difficulty of proving that asymptomatic transmission occurred. It doesn't want to discourage other reports. The medical community will cull through the preliminary reports.

 

The main weakness of the asymptomatic school is that they haven't demonstrated the alternate means of transmission. Does not occur by magic. It must occur through sweat or excrement etc. Prove it.

 

 

Good post. We know asymptomatic spreading is occurring. We just dont know how. Is it through droplets or contact? We also know that everyone experiences discomfort from illness differently. I use a CPAP every night and wake up with a sore throat for example almost every day. I would report myself as not having symptoms with a sore throat because of this. People with lung disease cough a lot. They would not think they were carrying a virus yet could be spreading it every time they cough. The one thing about this virus that is amazing is how much we still dont know. We do know it is very contagious. You dont have cases of community spread without knowing where you got it if it wasnt. The fatality rates are also very different in countries throughout the world. We are just starting with this pandemic. And we will know more in a couple of months once hundreds of thousands more are infected.

 

Edit: And by the way. The flu shot will have absolutely no impact on this virus. Which was stated in the original post. The two arent even in the same family of viruses.

Edited March 6, 2020 by clskinsfan

[AWorldCruise4Me]

27 minutes ago, CruisinCindy said:

 

We contacted our doctor yesterday to see if we could get tested, but they said no, even though we were on the Grand with confirmed cases.  The doctors are still requiring that you be symptomatic before they'll test, even though there are some people who can be positive but show no symptoms....

 

That makes sense. But this couple has symptoms.

 

From the article "Cummins said her husband has been very ill in recent days with no appetite, trouble breathing, and a fever at one point as high as 103 degrees. She told ABC7 News they have been self-quarantining at their Santa Clara home. Mrs. Cummins also said at one point she felt weak and fainted."

 

I just posted it so people can be prepared if they get the same run around. When you are sick it is often hard to make good decisions, especially when everyone tells you to go someplace else. A sick person might just give up and get sicker at home. It looks like someone notified abc news and the news outlet is attempting to get them headed in the right direction to get tested but are also having no luck.

Edited March 6, 2020 by AWorldCruise4Me

[CruisinCindy]

8 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

 

Princess is supposedly trying to contact all of the prior passengers for testing. Perhaps give Princess a ring?

 

The CA Governor announced last night that his office has the passenger manifest for our cruise and will be working with the county health authorities to contact the passengers in each of their counties.  Princess turned over the manifest to the Governor, so I don't think Princess will be contacting us.  Haven't heard from anyone yet, and I imagine it will take some time to coordinate.

[flyguyjake]

Royal just announced temp screenings of all pax on embarkation day