Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)

[fragilek]

4 hours ago, jwattle said:

Using a helicopter to bring one round of test kits versus 3700 meals these times a day...totally different scenarios

There would be a way to provide meals but I am not sure the passengers would be happy- survival meals - hill-walking mountaineering packs could be sent in - Some require hot water (palettes of kettles would need dropped off for those) but some are just eaten from packs.  The biggest problem would be water as the meal packs could be sent in to each cabin to last several days (they take up very little space) but enough fresh water for would take up much more space,  so  this would still require daily deliveries thus so only eliminates some risk.  If I was on board I would be up for that rather than have my meals made on board I also wouldn't come out of my cabin for deck time at all during the quarantine period.  However, I would imagine there would be an outcry if this was suggested. 

 

  Imagine Matthew Smiths face if this had happened to him in the Diamond 😉

Edited March 6, 2020 by fragilek

[debsjc]

3 hours ago, caribill said:

 

They are not testing the 3500+ people on board, just less than 100 of them, those passengers who were B2B from the previous voyage and those who had flu-like symptoms reported to the ship's Doctor.

 

 

 

What is the logic in testing all the passengers who were B2B, and not all the crew from the previous cruise?
Only that they don't have enough test kits, I suspect. 

[teddyd33]

Just now, debsjc said:

 

What is the logic in testing all the passengers who were B2B, and not all the crew from the previous cruise?
Only that they don't have enough test kits, I suspect. 

 

Yeah, lack of testing kits and perhaps this is the minimum sample size needed to get a "good enough" result 

[fragilek]

2 minutes ago, teddyd33 said:

 

Yeah, lack of testing kits and perhaps this is the minimum sample size needed to get a "good enough" result 

 from the latest update I am not even sure they have tested everyone who was on the B2B as reports now say only 45 samples taken and I am sure I read that there were more than that when those with symptoms (who I assume were definitely tested in the 45 samples) and those on B2B were added together.  Can any update and clarify this?

[trey420]

1 hour ago, debsjc said:

 

What is the logic in testing all the passengers who were B2B, and not all the crew from the previous cruise?
Only that they don't have enough test kits, I suspect. 

The passengers are American so they will get tested first.  If they didn't all you'd hear is why didn't they get tested.  Now the crew makes sense to test first.  They have much more of a possible exposure, cleaning his room, washing his sheets, cleaning up after he ate.  America first, even if it don't make sense.  

[kathy49]

1 hour ago, debsjc said:

 

What is the logic in testing all the passengers who were B2B, and not all the crew from the previous cruise?
Only that they don't have enough test kits, I suspect. 

this is crazy...above news from Princess said testing 45 that is not even all of the B2B let alone crew (same crew preparing the meals).  At some point I think everyone on the ship minus any of the 45 with positive results will all be released to fly or get back into the community from wherever they iive.  The spread in the US will continue as long as this sort of amateur approach to covid 19 is followed.

[kathy49]

37 minutes ago, trey420 said:

The passengers are American so they will get tested first.  If they didn't all you'd hear is why didn't they get tested.  Now the crew makes sense to test first.  They have much more of a possible exposure, cleaning his room, washing his sheets, cleaning up after he ate.  America first, even if it don't make sense.  

on their video the Hot Chicken ladies mentioned having the cabin steward come in and clean....this is not really a quarantine on the GP.

[resistk]

20 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

this is crazy...above news from Princess said testing 45 that is not even all of the B2B let alone crew (same crew preparing the meals).  At some point I think everyone on the ship minus any of the 45 with positive results will all be released to fly or get back into the community from wherever they iive.  The spread in the US will continue as long as this sort of amateur approach to covid 19 is followed.

 

Until the cruise industry has a unform response across the board, these ad hoc solutions will continue.  And if the Grand Princess pax go home and spread the virus?  Princess' reputation will take a huge hit. No one will want a cruise ship in their port.

Edited March 6, 2020 by resistk

[trey420]

If they go home and spread it that's the government's fault.  Princess is following what they are being told to do.  They have no control on the testing.  That uniform solution is supposed to come from elected officials. 

[chengkp75]

I'm not going to get into all of the theory of testing, or the politics of it, I'm just going to put out some facts about suggestions made here.

 

A US military MRE (meal, ready to eat) weighs an average of 22 oz, so 3 meals a day for 3700 people amounts to 15 tons of supplies to be airlifted to the ship.  The USCG MH-65 SAR helicopter is 1 ton slung underneath.  So, this would require 15 trips per day just to feed the ship, with the attendant stress on flight crew for repeated hovering over a moving ship at sea.

 

As for supply boats coming to the ship with supplies, the transfers mentioned are in a protected anchorage, where neither vessel is moving, and the freighters and tankers have cranes to lift the supplies off the boats.  At sea, the ship would need to be moving, albeit slowly, to keep heading to prevent rolling, and the boat would need to maintain station alongside.  Now, when was the last time you saw a crane on a cruise ship?  Even opening the normal storing ports on the ship, these are over 10 feet above the water, so how do you lift things that high and then sling them into the ship?  That just isn't gonna happen.

 

As for water, the ship should be well stocked with water made on the crossing from Hawaii, but that would only last 4-5 days before getting to critical levels, so the ship could make more, but would need to speed up to around 16 knots or so to produce enough waste heat to make water.

 

As to the speed of the ship, it does not "need to make headway", it could just as easily "hove to" and maintain its position, only opposing the wind, waves, and current.  However, a more prudent course to make the ride comfortable for the pax would be to just maintain "steerageway" (just fast enough that the rudders work), which can be as little as 5 knots through the water, which, if facing into seas/current, could be as little as 1-2 knots "over the ground" (the speed you see on AIS tracking sites).

[kathy49]

22 minutes ago, trey420 said:

If they go home and spread it that's the government's fault.  Princess is following what they are being told to do.  They have no control on the testing.  That uniform solution is supposed to come from elected officials. 

can agree with this and the "elected officials" don't have a clue.  Wonder if even once they have listened to the daily briefings from the WHO....basically is starts from top down in a country.

[kathy49]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

I'm not going to get into all of the theory of testing, or the politics of it, I'm just going to put out some facts about suggestions made here.

 

A US military MRE (meal, ready to eat) weighs an average of 22 oz, so 3 meals a day for 3700 people amounts to 15 tons of supplies to be airlifted to the ship.  The USCG MH-65 SAR helicopter is 1 ton slung underneath.  So, this would require 15 trips per day just to feed the ship, with the attendant stress on flight crew for repeated hovering over a moving ship at sea.

 

As for supply boats coming to the ship with supplies, the transfers mentioned are in a protected anchorage, where neither vessel is moving, and the freighters and tankers have cranes to lift the supplies off the boats.  At sea, the ship would need to be moving, albeit slowly, to keep heading to prevent rolling, and the boat would need to maintain station alongside.  Now, when was the last time you saw a crane on a cruise ship?  Even opening the normal storing ports on the ship, these are over 10 feet above the water, so how do you lift things that high and then sling them into the ship?  That just isn't gonna happen.

 

As for water, the ship should be well stocked with water made on the crossing from Hawaii, but that would only last 4-5 days before getting to critical levels, so the ship could make more, but would need to speed up to around 16 knots or so to produce enough waste heat to make water.

 

As to the speed of the ship, it does not "need to make headway", it could just as easily "hove to" and maintain its position, only opposing the wind, waves, and current.  However, a more prudent course to make the ride comfortable for the pax would be to just maintain "steerageway" (just fast enough that the rudders work), which can be as little as 5 knots through the water, which, if facing into seas/current, could be as little as 1-2 knots "over the ground" (the speed you see on AIS tracking sites).

of course you are well documented with all of the above but bottom line just as in DP you no doubt have an infected crew (almost impossible since they were on both cruises) preparing and serving meals and no masks are required of the passengers...not sure about crew. 

[fragilek]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I'm not going to get into all of the theory of testing, or the politics of it, I'm just going to put out some facts about suggestions made here.

 

A US military MRE (meal, ready to eat) weighs an average of 22 oz, so 3 meals a day for 3700 people amounts to 15 tons of supplies to be airlifted to the ship.  The USCG MH-65 SAR helicopter is 1 ton slung underneath.  So, this would require 15 trips per day just to feed the ship, with the attendant stress on flight crew for repeated hovering over a moving ship at sea.

 

As for supply boats coming to the ship with supplies, the transfers mentioned are in a protected anchorage, where neither vessel is moving, and the freighters and tankers have cranes to lift the supplies off the boats.  At sea, the ship would need to be moving, albeit slowly, to keep heading to prevent rolling, and the boat would need to maintain station alongside.  Now, when was the last time you saw a crane on a cruise ship?  Even opening the normal storing ports on the ship, these are over 10 feet above the water, so how do you lift things that high and then sling them into the ship?  That just isn't gonna happen.

 

As for water, the ship should be well stocked with water made on the crossing from Hawaii, but that would only last 4-5 days before getting to critical levels, so the ship could make more, but would need to speed up to around 16 knots or so to produce enough waste heat to make water.

 

As to the speed of the ship, it does not "need to make headway", it could just as easily "hove to" and maintain its position, only opposing the wind, waves, and current.  However, a more prudent course to make the ride comfortable for the pax would be to just maintain "steerageway" (just fast enough that the rudders work), which can be as little as 5 knots through the water, which, if facing into seas/current, could be as little as 1-2 knots "over the ground" (the speed you see on AIS tracking sites).

 glad I am not hill walking with you lol the  emergency 5 day pack my daughter uses is 5 kg (176oz total for 5 days)  3 meals a a day 1640 calories a day thus mass per day for the ship 112640oz which I think is usa 3.5 tons so 4 drops a day  - still a task but doable - however, I pictured a port side load of these enough for 5 days at a time rather than drops. Still I don't see  most cruiser types buying into dinner from a packet

[kathy49]

6 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 glad I am not hill walking with you lol the  emergency 5 day pack my daughter uses is 5 kg (176oz total for 5 days)  3 meals a a day 1640 calories a day thus mass per day for the ship 112640oz which I think is usa 3.5 tons so 4 drops a day  - still a task but doable - however, I pictured a port side load of these enough for 5 days at a time rather than drops. Still I don't see  most cruiser types buying into dinner from a packet

it is really not up to them at this point...the "cruise" is over!

[fragilek]

15 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

it is really not up to them at this point...the "cruise" is over!

 Agreed- I would go for it in a heart beat as the safer option - however, the masses will still need to be kept appeased or there could be trouble on board, they may need security on this ship if certain decisions are are taken.  I am sure the response to even being quarantine will not be taken as passively as it was on the Diamond after what resulted from that. At this stage we just have to hope  that it is "just" flu. 

This was they very thing that a lot of us envisaged happening when we were canceling or halting plans  over last  few weeks.  There is no way I would be setting foot on any cruise anywhere until all this is over.

Edited March 6, 2020 by fragilek

[kathy49]

1 minute ago, fragilek said:

 I would go for it in a heart beat as the safer option - however, the masses will still need to be kept appeased or there could be trouble on board, they may need security on this ship if certain decisions are are taken.  I am sure the response to even being quarantine will not be taken as passively as it on the Diamond after what resulted from that. At this stage we just have to hope  that it is "just" flu. 

This was they very thing that a lot of us envisaged happening when we were canceling or halting plans  over last  few weeks.  There is no way I would be setting foot on any cruise anywhere until all this is over.

I would have no problem with a prepacked meal that was sealed up under these circumstances...but we have been following what is going on and the DP...I have no doubt they will not duplicate DP...most of the passengers are US citizens and they will get them off and somehow quarantine on land if required. I am concerned however that they may opt for the "self quarantine" which to me is part of the reason why this is spreading across US with numbers increasing minute to minute. Of course if it is just the "flu" then great but somehow given the positives on the last sailing including one (maybe more) death I don't think so. Time will tell...hopefully they will get the results back fast.

[joepeka]

13 hours ago, Mibele said:

The "On The Grand" thread was combined in here.  The original post there was the picture of the letter, lying on their sheets (at least that is where it looked like it was placed).  I know because I was the second comment on that thread and my comment is two under that post.  I'm sorry I don't remember what the post number was, but it's on page 6 or 7 of this one, I believe.  

 

EDIT - I found it!  The Original "On The Grand" post is #85 here on page 4 - my reply to that post is #88.  Post #86 on this thread is from one of the mods, who I think might have been the one to place the "On The Grand" thread within this one.  I am probably wrong.  

Thank you for doing the research and clearing it up but I wasn't concerned. The reason for my post was in response to several other comments (long since deleted) accusing Princess of having CC delete that entire thread because they didn't like the negative content (including the letter you mention). The conspiracy theorists were out in force that day, I guess.  🙄

[CanadianKate]

13 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

 I am concerned however that they may opt for the "self quarantine" which to me is part of the reason why this is spreading across US with numbers increasing minute to minute....Time will tell...hopefully they will get the results back fast.

I believe the numbers will spike because the US is finally looking for it, instead of refusing to test people. At least if people are identified, medical care will be somewhat available. 

Tanzania (of interest to me since my husband will be in a small town there for the month of June) has no cases. But I don't believe that any more than I believe the US case numbers. 

The Chinese are a huge presence in Tanzania so there would logically be more than zero cases there now that workers will have returned after the Chinese New Year. Of course, the Chinese isolate themselves there (they bring in everything - their own food, structures, power systems, cooks, etc. and benefit the local economy very little) and the risk of cholera and malaria are ever present and more likely to happen. Even hand washing is a challenge due to contaminated water (for instance, my dh doesn't run shower water over his head, he rinses his face and hair with bottled water.) I have to hang onto that as a 'positive' this year - he's more at risk for 'normal' diseases than Covid19! (He goes every year and I basically kiss him goodbye and prepare myself for him to not return since there is extremely limited medical care where he is and it is a several hour drive to the nearest 'real' hospital.)

[CanadianKate]

24 minutes ago, joepeka said:

The conspiracy theorists were out in force that day, I guess.  🙄

 

I agree (as one of the deleted posters, I guess I count as a conspiracy theorist.) 

 

On the other hand, the Cunard boards leave a trail so you can see merged threads. They have a mega thread for all things Covid19 which they have stickied and the merged greyed out titles point people to the correct thread. Therefore one looks particularly idiotic if they jump to conclusions and point out the sway sponsors have over content on websites. It is clear there, the moderators are merely keeping the discussion focused.

Edited March 6, 2020 by CanadianKate

[arabrab]

Egyptian authorities report 12 COVID infections on a Nile River cruise headed to Luxor. That would be substantially worse than being on GP IMO.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/. 

[Farts]

Does anyone know how long the quarentine is planned for at this point? I know it can change, and I don't want to read 18 pgs. ty

[HappyInVan]

11 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

 

Edit: And by the way. The flu shot will have absolutely no impact on this virus. Which was stated in the original post. The two arent even in the same family of viruses.

 

This is what I actually said...

 

"It more be a good idea to get a vaccination for the common flu. It reduces the ability of COVID19 to hide, and reduces the complications if infection gets serious."

[arabrab]

2 minutes ago, Farts said:

Does anyone know how long the quarentine is planned for at this point? I know it can change, and I don't want to read 18 pgs. ty

I don't believe they have announced anything. It is possible that there are no positive cases in the group just tested. In that case, perhaps there would be no need at all for any quarantine.

[fragilek]

1 minute ago, Farts said:

Does anyone know how long the quarentine is planned for at this point? I know it can change, and I don't want to read 18 pgs. ty

 The only place I have seen time frame mentioned was on the BBC this morning it said  may be 14 days

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-51764135/page/2

[fragilek]

1 minute ago, HappyInVan said:

 

This is what I actually said...

 

"It more be a good idea to get a vaccination for the common flu. It reduces the ability of COVID19 to hide, and reduces the complications if infection gets serious."

 Yes it will make it potentially easier to identify although other non vac flu is out there too.  But as far as I am aware the flu jab will not help with any COVID-19 complications