Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)

[flyguyjake]

 

[caribill]

1 hour ago, flyguyjake said:

 

 

I see there is also a ship's "newspaper" (USA Times) in the photo. It has been years since I saw that on a Princess ship.

[caribill]

3 hours ago, 4cats4me said:

 

 

Just received this through my work e-mail: 

 

 

An important message from the County Administrator, Health Care Services Agency Director, and Interim County Health Officer

As you may know, the Grand Princess cruise ship, which is carrying some passengers who have tested positive for COVID-19, has been holding off the coast of California. As soon as tomorrow, March 9, 2020, the ship will begin disembarking passengers at the Port of Oakland.   We want to share with all County staff the attached message from the Governor's Office of Emergency Services and a few key points: This effort is being led by the state and federal governments, with Alameda County and the City of Oakland providing support as needed. The passengers will not be released into the general public. California residents aboard the ship will be taken to federal facilities for isolation and quarantine, while non-California residents will be transported to federal facilities in other states. The crew will be quarantined aboard the ship, which will leave the Port of Oakland as soon as passengers have disembarked. Anyone with immediate health care needs upon disembarkation may be transported to local and regional health facilities to receive care.   County leadership and the Health Care Services Agency are in close contact with the California Department of Health and Human Services, as well as local and regional partners. We want to assure you that all involved entities are working to minimize the impact of the cruise ship’s docking in Oakland and our highest priority is to safeguard the health of people living and working in Alameda County.   As a reminder, good hygiene and staying home when sick can help protect you and our community from COVID-19 and other germs. For updated information and resources, please visit the County’s public health website.

 

 

I listened to the Governor's news conference. Of note:

a) The disembakation may take 2 or 3 days

b) First off will be those known to need hospitalization

c) 2nd off will be California residents

d) California residents will be bused to the Califrnia quarantine facility

e) Other USA residents will be bused to the airport (directly to the tarmac, not in any passenger terminals) and flown on chartered planes to either Texas or Georgia

f) No testing for the virus will be done prior to disembarkation. That will be done at the destination quarantine facilities.

 

My observation:

Princess has had the passengers restricted to cabins for several days to stop the spread of the disease.

Thus passengers on buses and then planes (for non-California residents) may have a mixture of those with the virus and those without. This seems to me an opportunity to have some that do not have the virus get infected on their journey to the quarantine facility. I am sure they will need to wear facial masks, but they cannot be counted on to protect one from acquiring the virus.

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

I think I figured it out, maybe.   AIS was designed for vessel-to-vessel identification is simply a VHF signal of limited wattage and about a 12 mile range IIRC.   The websites use data collected from land base receivers (often hobby radio operators) and relay stations.   However, it turns out that for reasons beyond my understanding, satellites can pick up VHF transmissions over much greater distance than VHF was designed for, and there is some sort of service that can be paid for to pick up their reception.   The website gives you the land-based data for free, but you have to subscribe to get the satellite based data.   (I follow round-the-world sailboat races and have run into this.)

 

I think what is going on is that the shorter vessel's signal is being blocked from land by the cruise ship, which is several stories tall.  We are occasionally getting partial transmissions (for reasons too complex to go into here most often you just get the vessel position and not the name.)  However, the satellite is seeing the signal, which is why the website shows it as a vessel that you can unlock (at least when I looked.)

The reason satellites can pick up AIS VHF signals over a longer distance is simple; line of sight.  The curvature of the Earth limits where a line of sight VHF signal can be picked up by a land antenna (height of both transmitting and receiving antenna have a factor), but line of sight out into space is unlimited, and radio waves just keep going.  I believe what is happening is that both satellites and land based receivers can only receive and transmit so much data, and if there are a lot of targets in the area, or there are a lot of queries to the system, then you get "signal fratricide", where the signals either drop off, or they degrade each other and start returning false signals.  The reason the one ship disappears when zoomed in is that the area of query has less targets, so less signal problems.  Yes, tracking sites like Marinetraffic pay the land based sites for their subscription, so not all land based receivers within range will be used by every tracking site.  You cannot "blank out" the vessel name, either the AIS transponder is on or it is off.

[fragilek]

 Reports on the BBC that a passenger on the grand Princess has died- I have not heard that verified from any other source. It does not say if from Virus or not

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-51798946

Edited March 9, 2020 by fragilek

[Reader0108598]

47 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 Reports on the BBC that a passenger on the grand Princess has died- I have not heard that verified from any other source. It does not say if from Virus or not

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-51798946

RIP 😞

We do not know what she died from.I only hope all of her family and friends new before this report!

Edited March 9, 2020 by Reader0108598

[villauk]

52 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 Reports on the BBC that a passenger on the grand Princess has died- I have not heard that verified from any other source. It does not say if from Virus or not

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-51798946

 

 

I saw that and wondered if it was one of the previous cruise US pax who had passed away and the lady from Burnley was on a B2B?

[fragilek]

9 minutes ago, villauk said:

 

 

I saw that and wondered if it was one of the previous cruise US pax who had passed away and the lady from Burnley was on a B2B?

hopefully that will be what has happened, badly reported by bbc if that is the case

[NorthwestCruiser]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The reason satellites can pick up AIS VHF signals over a longer distance is simple; line of sight.  The curvature of the Earth limits where a line of sight VHF signal can be picked up by a land antenna (height of both transmitting and receiving antenna have a factor), but line of sight out into space is unlimited, and radio waves just keep going.  I believe what is happening is that both satellites and land based receivers can only receive and transmit so much data, and if there are a lot of targets in the area, or there are a lot of queries to the system, then you get "signal fratricide", where the signals either drop off, or they degrade each other and start returning false signals.  The reason the one ship disappears when zoomed in is that the area of query has less targets, so less signal problems.  Yes, tracking sites like Marinetraffic pay the land based sites for their subscription, so not all land based receivers within range will be used by every tracking site.  You cannot "blank out" the vessel name, either the AIS transponder is on or it is off.

Thanks for that.   However, you can indeed blank out the vessel name.   You can't change the IMO number (actually the MMSID which identifies the VHF station) at least on the class 'B' stuff that I can buy, but you can certainly change the name of your vessel, or else you would have to replace a lot of expensive gear when you renamed the ship!   (The gear isn't so expensive but rewiring it can be.)

Edited March 9, 2020 by NorthwestCruiser

[Boatdrill]

Grand Princess underway at 13 knots...seems to be heading in the direction of SFO Bay, falling in behind an oil tanker. Pilot boat PV Golden Gate just cleared the bay and now in open water.  

Edited March 9, 2020 by Boatdrill

[Justmekaren918]

1 hour ago, Boatdrill said:

Grand Princess underway at 13 knots...seems to be heading in the direction of SFO Bay, falling in behind an oil tanker. Pilot boat PV Golden Gate just cleared the bay and now in open water.  

Any explanation why she looks to be turning out of channel?

[Justmekaren918]

Her nose has turned back in but speed cut in half to 5knts

[chengkp75]

The tanker Capricorn Voyager will be picking up a pilot first, and I suspect Grand has a specified pilot time to allow for proper spacing of vessels in the traffic separation scheme in the Bay, so they may also be waiting on the bulker Ocean Satoko to pick up a pilot, or they may need to wait for an outbound to drop off a pilot to the Drake, and then use that pilot inbound on the Grand.

[Boatdrill]

36 minutes ago, Justmekaren918 said:

Any explanation why she looks to be turning out of channel?

An interesting thing just happened.  The oil tanker in front was going slower, and the Grand began to pick up speed as if to pass.  Then a small fishing boat, the "Reelization"  came up quickly from the port side towards the Grand's bow as if going to cross in front. The Grand slowed down markedly while the fishing boat slowed and stayed on the port side. As the Grand slowly moved forward, the boat crossed behind the Grand. The Grand is now at 5 knots and headed towards the bay entrance. The fishing boat is headed south east, away from the Grand,  but staying close enough for photos, if the press is onboard.    

 

chengkp75 did you see that ? 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Boatdrill

[NorthwestCruiser]

We'll see, at the moment she isn't any further to the NE than she has been on her circuit before and she has slowed down a lot.   Might be another supply pickup.

 

I have seen freighters come across the Columbia bar once every two or three minutes so if there is some special congestion issue in San Francisco bay it would be interesting to hear of it.   I'm sure you have all seen the procession when Seymour Narrows (if you are on an Alaska cruise) is at slack, you can more or less walk from ship to ship in the summer.   

[Boatdrill]

Live video of the Grand from SF tv 

 

https://abc7news.com/ 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Boatdrill

[caribill]

CNN news said the Grand will dock this afternoon but did not specify a time.

[bdojoe]

Small craft visible in front of Grand - maybe a tender?

[NorthwestCruiser]

 Looks like it is through a telescope.

Edited March 9, 2020 by NorthwestCruiser
Eh, maybe too lighthearted for the situation

[chengkp75]

Given that the pilot boat San Francisco is heading out to the pilot station, makes me believe that any pilots available on the Drake may have reached their internationally and federally mandated work/rest hour limitations, and the Drake will be heading back to the pilot's dock to let these guys off.  It may also be that the pilot for the Grand is a volunteer, and is coming out on the San Francisco specially.

[BigLakeGrandma]

Coast Ranger here again. A tender was launched to meet but still waiting for permission to come alongside. At least 4 people dressed in hazmat on back of Coast Guard ship.

[NorthwestCruiser]

10 minutes ago, bdojoe said:

Small craft visible in front of Grand - maybe a tender?

There is a fishing boat within 2 miles.   Could be journalists or just curious.

[Boatdrill]

Just now, NorthwestCruiser said:

Live video of a boat going nowhere.   Looks like a yacht race!   

The live video showed her headed towards the bay, and then she turned 180, and you could see one of the tenders in the water. The Grand is stopped now, facing southwest. 

[BigLakeGrandma]

Fox News said we will dock at 3  pm. Not going to get many people off today if that is the case. And why do as passengers have to get this information from the media?

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

There is a fishing boat within 2 miles.   Could be journalists or just curious.

Nah, fishing vessels are the bane of our existence.  Since, when actively engaged in fishing, they have the right of way over nearly all vessels, they do this all the time, and pass close by large ships that cannot rapidly avoid them.  They have "their spots" for fishing, and don't care who or what is there.