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Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Ellipooh said:

Two large ships alongside her, maybe a tiny tug up front, not sure

 

ETA yes there’s a tiny boat up front, likely the pilot Drake

 

Drake is about 10 nm away from Grand, which is about 20 nm out from the GGB. The Miss Tammy is alongside Grand along with what appears to be some other unidentified vessel. Miss Tammy is the smaller craft which appears to be sitting inside of the other vessel.

 

Perhaps that's a USCG vessel?

 

MarineTraffic is acting strange...

 

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-08 at 7.21.39 PM.png

Edited by Outerdog

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Posted (edited)

MarineTraffic...?!?!  Zoom in and the third ship disappears.

Screen Shot 2020-03-08 at 7.26.01 PM.png

 

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-08 at 7.26.19 PM.png

Edited by Outerdog

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It is some sort of large passenger vessel, I don't have a subscription to Marine Traffic to unlock the IMO number.   Usually the CG vessels will show up in a different color, I'm not really sure what it means that the name is not displayed on marine traffic, my *guess* is that the name has been blanked out on the AIS but the vessel type (passenger) should still be accurate.  When the CG and the Navy want to be sneaky they don't transmit at all, which is a pain but off topic.  (We have a lot of sub and aircraft carrier traffic.)

 

They can't possibly be trying to transfer 2000 people or so at sea, can they?   It would be exciting.   It is a very large vessel (the blocky diagram is based on the programmed ship dimensions.)

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2 minutes ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

It is some sort of large passenger vessel, I don't have a subscription to Marine Traffic to unlock the IMO number.   Usually the CG vessels will show up in a different color, I'm not really sure what it means that the name is not displayed on marine traffic, my *guess* is that the name has been blanked out on the AIS but the vessel type (passenger) should still be accurate.  When the CG and the Navy want to be sneaky they don't transmit at all, which is a pain but off topic.  (We have a lot of sub and aircraft carrier traffic.)

 

They can't possibly be trying to transfer 2000 people or so at sea, can they?   It would be exciting.   It is a very large vessel (the blocky diagram is based on the programmed ship dimensions.)

It appears to me to be a false ping of the GP itself.

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1 hour ago, Boatdrill said:

Looks like the Miss Tammy is on her way to the GP.

 

Actually Grand Princess is abbreviated AP. The designation GP is used for Regal Princess. (Blame Princess not me...)

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Just received this through my work e-mail: 

 

 

An important message from the County Administrator, Health Care Services Agency Director, and Interim County Health Officer

 

 

As you may know, the Grand Princess cruise ship, which is carrying some passengers who have tested positive for COVID-19, has been holding off the coast of California. As soon as tomorrow, March 9, 2020, the ship will begin disembarking passengers at the Port of Oakland.  

We want to share with all County staff the attached message from the Governor's Office of Emergency Services and a few key points:

  • This effort is being led by the state and federal governments, with Alameda County and the City of Oakland providing support as needed.
  • The passengers will not be released into the general public. California residents aboard the ship will be taken to federal facilities for isolation and quarantine, while non-California residents will be transported to federal facilities in other states.
  • The crew will be quarantined aboard the ship, which will leave the Port of Oakland as soon as passengers have disembarked.
  • Anyone with immediate health care needs upon disembarkation may be transported to local and regional health facilities to receive care.

 

County leadership and the Health Care Services Agency are in close contact with the California Department of Health and Human Services, as well as local and regional partners. We want to assure you that all involved entities are working to minimize the impact of the cruise ship’s docking in Oakland and our highest priority is to safeguard the health of people living and working in Alameda County.

 

As a reminder, good hygiene and staying home when sick can help protect you and our community from COVID-19 and other germs. For updated information and resources, please visit the County’s public health website.

 

 

 

 

 

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That would be unusual, but who knows if it is some sort of website issue.   The cruise ship is stopped which would lend some credibility to the idea that there are two vessels there doing something together, but I suppose if the data stream were completely messed up that could be off.   In my opinion it is more likely that the other vessel disappears from time to time because its signal (which is simply a VHF transmission) is blocked by the behemoth ship-like object that it is next to.

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From my window I could see that There were three large vessels grouped together when I first posted about an hour ago, but one went away. The second large ship pulled north and is now also out of view. The Grand is lit up as usual. It is further north from where I first spotted it, but moving verrrrrrry slowly

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Posted (edited)

I think I figured it out, maybe.   AIS was designed for vessel-to-vessel identification is simply a VHF signal of limited wattage and about a 12 mile range IIRC.   The websites use data collected from land base receivers (often hobby radio operators) and relay stations.   However, it turns out that for reasons beyond my understanding, satellites can pick up VHF transmissions over much greater distance than VHF was designed for, and there is some sort of service that can be paid for to pick up their reception.   The website gives you the land-based data for free, but you have to subscribe to get the satellite based data.   (I follow round-the-world sailboat races and have run into this.)

 

I think what is going on is that the shorter vessel's signal is being blocked from land by the cruise ship, which is several stories tall.  We are occasionally getting partial transmissions (for reasons too complex to go into here most often you just get the vessel position and not the name.)  However, the satellite is seeing the signal, which is why the website shows it as a vessel that you can unlock (at least when I looked.)

Edited by NorthwestCruiser

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Posted (edited)

With all the earlier confusion, it is now clear that Miss Tammy has finished unloading food and is heading back. I will leave the whereabouts of a possible third vessel to the experts.

 

Edited by ChiCruiser758

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Posted (edited)

According to NBC news, (https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/national-international/frustration-mounts-over-virus-stalled-ship-in-california/2324933/?fbclid=IwAR0Y6uqieoPuMlqiF-F2hFPmDB3Ud82LdtD0vgAcAJ1QRCLOLp0gAbWszVA), the Grand Princess will dock at old Port's America (now out of business) site.

 

I am assuming she will dock at berth 22 / 23.

https://www.portofoakland.com/files/pdf/about/maritimeBrochure.pdf

Edited by mkkao924

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1 hour ago, flyguyjake said:

 

 

I see there is also a ship's "newspaper" (USA Times) in the photo. It has been years since I saw that on a Princess ship.

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3 hours ago, 4cats4me said:

 

 

Just received this through my work e-mail: 

 

 

An important message from the County Administrator, Health Care Services Agency Director, and Interim County Health Officer

 

 

 

As you may know, the Grand Princess cruise ship, which is carrying some passengers who have tested positive for COVID-19, has been holding off the coast of California. As soon as tomorrow, March 9, 2020, the ship will begin disembarking passengers at the Port of Oakland.  

We want to share with all County staff the attached message from the Governor's Office of Emergency Services and a few key points:

  • This effort is being led by the state and federal governments, with Alameda County and the City of Oakland providing support as needed.
  • The passengers will not be released into the general public. California residents aboard the ship will be taken to federal facilities for isolation and quarantine, while non-California residents will be transported to federal facilities in other states.
  • The crew will be quarantined aboard the ship, which will leave the Port of Oakland as soon as passengers have disembarked.
  • Anyone with immediate health care needs upon disembarkation may be transported to local and regional health facilities to receive care.

 

County leadership and the Health Care Services Agency are in close contact with the California Department of Health and Human Services, as well as local and regional partners. We want to assure you that all involved entities are working to minimize the impact of the cruise ship’s docking in Oakland and our highest priority is to safeguard the health of people living and working in Alameda County.

 

As a reminder, good hygiene and staying home when sick can help protect you and our community from COVID-19 and other germs. For updated information and resources, please visit the County’s public health website.

 

 

 

I listened to the Governor's news conference. Of note:

a) The disembakation may take 2 or 3 days

b) First off will be those known to need hospitalization

c) 2nd off will be California residents

d) California residents will be bused to the Califrnia quarantine facility

e) Other USA residents will be bused to the airport (directly to the tarmac, not in any passenger terminals) and flown on chartered planes to either Texas or Georgia

f) No testing for the virus will be done prior to disembarkation. That will be done at the destination quarantine facilities.

 

My observation:

Princess has had the passengers restricted to cabins for several days to stop the spread of the disease.

Thus passengers on buses and then planes (for non-California residents) may have a mixture of those with the virus and those without. This seems to me an opportunity to have some that do not have the virus get infected on their journey to the quarantine facility. I am sure they will need to wear facial masks, but they cannot be counted on to protect one from acquiring the virus.

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9 hours ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

I think I figured it out, maybe.   AIS was designed for vessel-to-vessel identification is simply a VHF signal of limited wattage and about a 12 mile range IIRC.   The websites use data collected from land base receivers (often hobby radio operators) and relay stations.   However, it turns out that for reasons beyond my understanding, satellites can pick up VHF transmissions over much greater distance than VHF was designed for, and there is some sort of service that can be paid for to pick up their reception.   The website gives you the land-based data for free, but you have to subscribe to get the satellite based data.   (I follow round-the-world sailboat races and have run into this.)

 

I think what is going on is that the shorter vessel's signal is being blocked from land by the cruise ship, which is several stories tall.  We are occasionally getting partial transmissions (for reasons too complex to go into here most often you just get the vessel position and not the name.)  However, the satellite is seeing the signal, which is why the website shows it as a vessel that you can unlock (at least when I looked.)

The reason satellites can pick up AIS VHF signals over a longer distance is simple; line of sight.  The curvature of the Earth limits where a line of sight VHF signal can be picked up by a land antenna (height of both transmitting and receiving antenna have a factor), but line of sight out into space is unlimited, and radio waves just keep going.  I believe what is happening is that both satellites and land based receivers can only receive and transmit so much data, and if there are a lot of targets in the area, or there are a lot of queries to the system, then you get "signal fratricide", where the signals either drop off, or they degrade each other and start returning false signals.  The reason the one ship disappears when zoomed in is that the area of query has less targets, so less signal problems.  Yes, tracking sites like Marinetraffic pay the land based sites for their subscription, so not all land based receivers within range will be used by every tracking site.  You cannot "blank out" the vessel name, either the AIS transponder is on or it is off.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 Reports on the BBC that a passenger on the grand Princess has died- I have not heard that verified from any other source. It does not say if from Virus or not

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-51798946

RIP 😞

We do not know what she died from.I only hope all of her family and friends new before this report!

Edited by Reader0108598

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52 minutes ago, fragilek said:

 Reports on the BBC that a passenger on the grand Princess has died- I have not heard that verified from any other source. It does not say if from Virus or not

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-51798946

 

 

I saw that and wondered if it was one of the previous cruise US pax who had passed away and the lady from Burnley was on a B2B?

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9 minutes ago, villauk said:

 

 

I saw that and wondered if it was one of the previous cruise US pax who had passed away and the lady from Burnley was on a B2B?

hopefully that will be what has happened, badly reported by bbc if that is the case

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The reason satellites can pick up AIS VHF signals over a longer distance is simple; line of sight.  The curvature of the Earth limits where a line of sight VHF signal can be picked up by a land antenna (height of both transmitting and receiving antenna have a factor), but line of sight out into space is unlimited, and radio waves just keep going.  I believe what is happening is that both satellites and land based receivers can only receive and transmit so much data, and if there are a lot of targets in the area, or there are a lot of queries to the system, then you get "signal fratricide", where the signals either drop off, or they degrade each other and start returning false signals.  The reason the one ship disappears when zoomed in is that the area of query has less targets, so less signal problems.  Yes, tracking sites like Marinetraffic pay the land based sites for their subscription, so not all land based receivers within range will be used by every tracking site.  You cannot "blank out" the vessel name, either the AIS transponder is on or it is off.

Thanks for that.   However, you can indeed blank out the vessel name.   You can't change the IMO number (actually the MMSID which identifies the VHF station) at least on the class 'B' stuff that I can buy, but you can certainly change the name of your vessel, or else you would have to replace a lot of expensive gear when you renamed the ship!   (The gear isn't so expensive but rewiring it can be.)

Edited by NorthwestCruiser

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