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AF-1

AMAWaterways Covid 19 Cancel Policy

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My May 2020 cruise cancelled with them;  my paperwork states, that I can elect to receive 115% credit or cash refund.  If I choose the 115% I have two years to book;  it then states if I do not cruise by May 2022; they will automatically refund my money. 

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I cancelled prior to paying the final payment due to all the COVID warnings and prior to AMA cancelling the cruise. In March they had different refund policies which changed online several times. These refund conditions differed from the paperwork.  In order to get the 115% FCC I would have had to pay the balance and take my chances that they could honor the credit and that they will be in business and that they don’t jack their prices more than 15%.  I felt there was too much risk.  

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AMAWaterways, “Future Cruise Credits” are basically a form of theft. In my case, the Credits expire after 2 years. I did not receive a 115% offer like you did, AF-1. AMAWaterways wants to confiscate my money for 2 years with no compensation. Here is an example. Let’s say that I had the Credits from 2 years ago, September 13, 2018. The S&P 500 has increased 15% in the past 2 years. AMAWaterways would have withheld my $10,000 for 2 years, and provided me with no compensation. In this example, I would have lost out on a potential $1,500 return on my money. And AMAWaterways will confiscate my $10,000 deposit at the expiration date. In my case, I have told AMAWaterways 4 times in writing that I want my money returned to me. Call it what it is: theft.

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AMAWaterways, “Future Cruise Credits” are also forcing customers to make risky life or death decisions. Most customers, like me, can’t afford to lose their deposit. In my case, my deposit is $10,000, which is a lot of money. I am sure that many of you feel the financial pressure to book a cruise, and use your Credits before they expire. We all have to make a personal decision on the risk of going on a cruise during COVID19. My wife and I have enjoyed many cruises in the past, experiences of a lifetime. However, we are over 65. Sadly, the CDC reports the following information from their website:

1. “8 out of 10 COVID-19-related deaths reported in the United States have been among adults aged 65 years and older.”

2. “CDC recommends that travelers defer all cruise travel worldwide.”

3. “The current scientific evidence suggests that cruise ships pose a greater risk of COVID-19 transmission than other settings.”

 

The fastest vaccine ever developed was the mumps vaccine. It took 4 years before approval in 1967.

 

So for my own personal decision, I cannot see any way that my wife and I could safely go on a cruise within the next 2 years. We wouldn’t even consider it without a COVID19 vaccine approved. Although we all want COVID19 to go away, it is delusional thinking for me to plan a cruise. I want AMAWaterways to return my money.

 

My Charms of the Mekong cruise was originally scheduled for March 16, 2020, and then cancelled by AMAWaterways. Vietnam, “is not allowing entry or issuing visas to foreign nationals, from March 22 until further notice.” I couldn’t take this cruise in the foreseeable future even if I wanted to.

 

I am afraid this is a case of corporate greed prevailing over the health & safety of customers.

Edited by teejay6
typo

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I wonder if AMAWATERWAYS owners and management are reading any of these comments and do they care?  Like I said before, I contacted them by phone, by email addresses on their website, by the email that they provided on this forum and through my travel agent.  They just don’t give a damn and want your money. To take the final payments and then within a very short period of time after receiving your money they cancel the cruise and tell you that you can only get a FCC.  I’m fortunate that I cancelled before giving them the final payment. 

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Oskie3188;  yes AMA does monitor these boards;  so whatever you post they will see;  they may not respond directly to you but they do know what you have written.  Teejay6;  why exactly can you not get your deposit back?  And how does one put down $10,000 deposit.  Thanks for your answers

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$10,000 is the amount of money that I paid AMAWaterways prior to my cruise. AMAWaterways cancelled the cruise, and provided me, “as a gesture of goodwill” a “Future Cruise Credit” that is less than the amount of money I paid. Here is the fine print on this Credit, “This credit has no cash value, is not transferable and is applied as a discount against the total cruise fare. Future Cruise Credits cannot be combined with land and air-based promotions and are subject to any and all cancellation charges as listed in AmaWaterways' terms and conditions.” For the reasons I have outlined in my previous posts, this Credit is worthless to me. I will not be taking a cruise until there is a COVID19 vaccine, which I do not believe will happen in the next 2 years. These credits will expire within 2 years, leaving me paying $10,000 for a service I did not receive. I have asked AMAWaterways multiple times in writing to return my money. It is beyond frustrating.

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teejay6,   did you book directly thru AMA or use a agent?  I too are in same situation.  Our May river cruise cancelled in April; and we were offered 115% FCC;  if we don't use is within two years Dec 2022; they will refund our money.  So we have around 18 months to take a river cruise.  I would think you would have same sort of deal.  Below is the contract email we received from AMA; 

Upon the expiration of this FCC on December 31, 2022, if you are unable to use your FCC, an extension or a refund equal to the original amount paid to AmaWaterways may be requested, unless the FCC has already been applied in whole or partially to a new reservation or any client that has had the FCC subsequently transferred to them.

Edited by AF-1

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It helps to understand the accounting used for Future Cruise Credits. This topic is a little dry, but it provides guidance as to how to value your Credits, and what the repayment obligations are from AMAWaterways.

 

ASC 606 (Accounting Standards Codification) was introduced in 2018. “ASC 606 established new rules for US companies about booking revenues, in the process creating a common standard for Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) and International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS), which means similar changes are rolling out in most other countries. At its most basic, ASC 606 mandates that revenue is recorded once a contractual obligation is met, not at the time of payment.”

 

AMAWaterways is not a publicly traded company, so they do not release financial statements to the public. However, the two largest cruise companies, Carnival Corporation and Royal Caribbean Cruises, are publicly traded companies. The accounting for Future Cruise Credits (included in Customer Deposits) is now tightly regulated due to ASC 606, and the wording and accounting treatment in the SEC 10-K’s is almost identical between these two companies. Therefore, there is a high probability that AMAWaterways is accounting for Future Cruise Credits in the exact same way.

 

From the Carnival Corporation 10-k, 2019:

Future Cruise Vouchers are included in Customer Deposits. There is no breakout for how much are Deposits versus how much are Credits. For Customer Deposits, “These advance passenger receipts remain a current liability until the sailing date. The cash generated from these advance receipts is used interchangeably with cash on hand from other sources, such as our borrowings and other cash from operations. The cash received as advanced receipts can be used to fund operating expenses, pay down our debt, make long-term investments or any other use of cash.”

 

What does this mean? The Cruise Company can use your Credit for any purpose they choose. It is equivalent to a loan.

 

Sources and uses of Cash; Future Commitments; Payments Due by Year: “Represents cash outflows for certain of our long-term liabilities which can be reasonably estimated. The primary outflows are for estimates of our compensation plans’ obligations, crew and guest claims and certain deferred income taxes. Customer deposits and certain other deferred income taxes have been excluded from the table because they do not require a cash settlement in the future.”

 

What does this mean? AMAWaterways states on their Future Cruise Credits that, “This credit has no cash value.” Therefore, from an accounting perspective, a Credit is a loan that can be classified with no cash repayment obligation. This makes a Credit much more valuable to the Cruise Company than a conventional bank loan.

 

And what happens to your Credits in the event that AMAWaterways goes bankrupt? According to Robert M. Lawless, a law professor at the University of Illinois, in a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, consumers with Credits are 7th in line to be paid back, after secured lenders like banks, and after the next 5 other creditors. Since the Credit has no cash value, the probability of having any money left after the secured lenders are paid off is very low.

 

AF-1’s contract states, “an extension or a refund equal to the original amount paid to AmaWaterways may be requested.” That does not mean that AMAWaterways will automatically refund your money. You will have to remember to ask for it. There is no data on how many of these Credits expire worthless because the customer didn’t understand the language, or didn’t remember, but I will bet the number is pretty high.

 

Let’s recap the Future Cruise Credit contract:

What AMA Waterways gets:

  1. A 2 year loan of your money
  2. No loan cancellation or early repayment restrictions
  3. Better loan terms than can be obtained from a conventional loan
  4. No interest or compensation required to be paid to the lender (you)
  5. No cash value obligation to the lender (you)
  6. Restrictions on what you can use the Credits for (not with promotions)
  7. Very low priority obligation to have to repay you in the event of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy
  8. Some likelihood that the Credit will expire without redemption, in which case they can book the entire loan as revenue

 

What You get:

  1. A 2 year loan you are forced to give to AMAWaterways
  2. No interest or compensation on your money
  3. No cash value
  4. The loan is not transferable
  5. You cannot sell the loan, or use it as collateral
  6. Very low probability of repayment in the event of AMAWaterways bankruptcy
  7. Repayment at the end of 2 years only if you remember to request it.

 

From an accounting point of view, the contract is extremely unequal, and tilted overwhelmingly in favor of AMAWaterways.

 

COVID19 has fundamentally changed the Future Cruise Credit contract. Prior to COVID19, using a Credit could be considered like the old adage, “You miss one streetcar, you catch another.” In other words, if you have to cancel (or be cancelled), you can always use the Credit on the next cruise. 

 

The problem now is that it has been 6 months, and there have been no new cruises, with no visibility as to when they might resume. A COVID19 vaccine could be years away. And the probability of a bankruptcy of AMAWaterways is much higher than before.

 

The Future Cruise Credit is simply a rotten deal, made even worse with the COVID19 situation.

I want my money returned from AMAWaterways.

 

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well I hope you get refunded everything.   I will wait until next year to make decision.  

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