I heard a real quick discussion of whether the government should save the cruise industry

[donaldsc]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I understand that, aside from Social Security on the salaries of their US based staff (not very many) they pay next to nothing.

 

7 hours ago, mountbiker said:

I was reading an article today that said the 3 top cruise lines do not pay any US taxes.. If this is in fact true I don’t feel we as tax payers owe them anything. 

+1 on that.  No taxes -- no bailout especially as they have arr almost entirely foreign crew so we don't even collect any txes fro  the crew salaries.

 

DON

[sparks1093]

11 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Even if you drive on a beach?

It's mud season here, not a beach to be seen.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

It's mud season here, not a beach to be seen.

That’s just one of the reasons why it is important to live within four miles of a significant body of salt water.

[ducklite]

On 3/12/2020 at 11:53 AM, ontheweb said:

A quick minute on MSNBC.

 

con---They are not  really an essential industry.

 

pro--They employ a lot of people.

Mostly foreign nationals who pay no taxes to the IRS.

[lenquixote66]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

That’s just one of the reasons why it is important to live within four miles of a significant body of salt water.

Good point ,glad that I do.

[JMorris271]

On 3/17/2020 at 8:10 PM, navybankerteacher said:

You really do not think that having 4,000 or so people in a fairly enclosed environment: eating meals by the hundreds, sitting butt by butt in theatres, lined up for boarding check in, etc. might not have increased the spread?  

 

WOW, JUST WOW!!!!!

WOW .  Good point.  It's kind of like having thousands upon thousands sitting in venues for ball game, concerts, theaters, subways and on and one. I won't mention all of the handheld pump hoses to put gas in the car.  Imagine that.

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by JMorris271

[bonsai3s]

1 hour ago, ducklite said:

Mostly foreign nationals who pay no taxes to the IRS.

 

Agree...also guessing there will be no bailout...just my opinion.

 

I must add that there will be Americans that will be affected and suffer if the cruise industry "sinks".

* Purveyors and suppliers.

* Hotels and restaurants.

* Airlines and other transportation.

 

We love cruising...and we're hoping something good comes out of this.

Staying positive.

 

[AL3XCruise]

45 minutes ago, bonsai3s said:

I must add that there will be Americans that will be affected and suffer if the cruise industry "sinks".

* Purveyors and suppliers.

* Hotels and restaurants.

* Airlines and other transportation.

 

First off, I don't think the industry is going away.  While a bailout may be unlikely, I don't think many people expect the demand for cruising to disappear.  Most, if not all, major lines will likely continue to exist either through extensive borrowing or bankruptcy reorganization.  

 

If there was a major drop in capacity, there would still be demand for vacations.  Many of the businesses you mentioned would adapt.  Some, like hotels and restaurants, could actually benefit from a decrease in cruising as people turn to land-based alternatives.  A few, of course, would be squeezed out.  Overall, though, the demand for the kind of services a cruise provides would continue, and US based business would step into the void.

 

However, as I said, I most if not all operations to continue similar to how they were.  How exactly they get there is a bit less certain.

[navybankerteacher]

10 minutes ago, JMorris271 said:

WOW .  Good point.  It's kind of like having thousands upon thousands sitting in venues for ball game, concerts, theaters, subways and on and one. I won't mention all of the handheld pump hoses to put gas in the car.  Imagine that.

 

Aren’t you aware that most responsible communities have already cancelled ball games, concerts, theaters, etc.?  And  that putting gas in your car and taking the subway (which nobody does unless they have no other option) are necessary —- while cruising never was, and therefore should have been one of the first activities cancelled.

 

Cruise addicts are curious people.

[clo]

53 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

taking the subway (which nobody does unless they have no other option)

When we lived in SF I took public transpo to and from work every day and still do when visiting. Same with NYC. But yeah it's strange.

[drsel]

I just hope that they survive

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, clo said:

When we lived in SF I took public transpo to and from work every day and still do when visiting. Same with NYC. But yeah it's strange.

Well, sometimes what something is called makes a difference in how it seems.  “Metro” in Paris and DC is surely  a cut above “BART” in SF and “Underground” in London — but “Subway” in NYC makes it feel like a substandard way of getting around.

 

When my office got relocated from Wall Street to midtown Fifth Avenue - a five minute walk from Grand Central and I was freed from that electric sewer formally called the Lexington Avenue IRT -I had to bite my tongue to keep from asking for a pay cut to even things up.

Edited March 20, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[clo]

45 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

“Subway” in NYC makes it feel like a substandard way of getting around.

Rather than "subterranium." 🙂  

[ducklite]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Well, sometimes what something is called makes a difference in how it seems.  “Metro” in Paris and DC is surely  a cut above “BART” in SF and “Underground” in London — but “Subway” in NYC makes it feel like a substandard way of getting around.

 

When my office got relocated from Wall Street to midtown Fifth Avenue - a five minute walk from Grand Central and I was freed from that electric sewer formally called the Lexington Avenue IRT -I had to bite my tongue to keep from asking for a pay cut to even things up.

I'd take the Tube before the Paris Metro.  We found the latter to be one of the grimiest we've encountered.  

The Metro in Warsaw was spotless and very easy to use.

[clo]

31 minutes ago, ducklite said:

I'd take the Tube before the Paris Metro.  We found the latter to be one of the grimiest we've encountered.  

The Metro in Warsaw was spotless and very easy to use.

Just read that London is closing 40 of their Underground stations.

[drsel]

All countries should close the metro trains and buses
Public transport is the easiest way to spread the virus

[ed01106]

15 minutes ago, drsel said:

All countries should close the metro trains and buses
Public transport is the easiest way to spread the virus

How are doctors, nurses, grocery store workers, etc suppose to get to work?

[drsel]

By car or taxi. So less human to human proximity or contact

[drsel]

Other office goers have to work from home

[ed01106]

2 hours ago, drsel said:

By car or taxi. So less human to human proximity or contact

In some cities that might not  work.  I doubt major cities have enough taxis.  Uber system is already overcapacity on deliveries.

 

Also a crowded bus is very high risk.  A bus with only a few riders is the about same risk as a taxi.  

[sparks1093]

17 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

In some cities that might not  work.  I doubt major cities have enough taxis.  Uber system is already overcapacity on deliveries.

 

Also a crowded bus is very high risk.  A bus with only a few riders is the about same risk as a taxi.  

It's going to be very situation dependent just like most other things in life- it's very rarely one size fits all.

[Markanddonna]

14 hours ago, ducklite said:

The Metro in Warsaw was spotless and very easy to use.

Good observation. Interesting that the Polish people isolated themselves quickly and with strong compliance unlike some of the western European countries. WWII didn't really end for them until 1989 when the Russians left so their people understand the importance of national unity for the common good. I keep in touch with my Polish relatives and therefore have a good sense of what is going on. Truly, their streets are empty except for essential workers and with few complaints.  BTW- Poland is one of the very best countries in Europe for travel and it is a great value.

[cruisemom42]

On 3/19/2020 at 2:16 PM, ed01106 said:

So what?  If you didn’t cruise you would do something.  And for most people that would involve domestic travel.  Yeah, some people would go overseas, but many more would do land based domestic vacations.  Orlando theme parks are way more important to Florida tourism than the small number of people who fly in the one night before. No cruises mean more dollars spent at land based attractions.  The cruise lines literally send US dollars overseas. 

 

I have zero interest in domestic travel. I have not spent money on it in the last decade and would not if cruising were available or not. 

[ed01106]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I have zero interest in domestic travel. I have not spent money on it in the last decade and would not if cruising were available or not. 

Okay.  

 

However, a few individuals don’t matter.  

 

Are you someone who spends the night before in a hotel before sailing from a US port?
 

if yes, then for you and 6 other people just like you we need one person to switch from a cruise to a one week land based vacation for no net loss or gain.

 

If no,  you cruise internationally, there absolutely no loss to the US economy.

 

If no, you fly in the day of the cruise than there will be a minuscule economic loss.

 

OTOH, if you choose to stay home than that will be a small economic boost to your hometown economy. 

[JMorris271]

21 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Aren’t you aware that most responsible communities have already cancelled ball games, concerts, theaters, etc.?  And  that putting gas in your car and taking the subway (which nobody does unless they have no other option) are necessary —- while cruising never was, and therefore should have been one of the first activities cancelled.

 

Cruise addicts are curious people.

Of coarse I'm aware of all of the actions taken after the powers that be accepted the reality that there is a clear and present danger.  Pretty much all communities came around and did the right thing but many did not.  You would be surprised at those that ride public transportation that have other means of travel. I agree that cruising needed to be halted sooner. As you can see here on the board, there are many cruisers that would sail today if it was possible.  It must be the addiction.