Doctor signing form for cruise

[pilotsugar]

My husband is 72 and just got a physical Thursday at our doctor, but she won’t sign the form stating he is fit to cruise, even though she said he was in perfect health. I guess she thinks she will be liable if he gets sick. What do you think our next step will be? Will another doctor sign it. She said no doctor would. We are in a predictament, we have a cruise on April 13 on Celebrity Reflection, unless it gets cancelled too.  What is your opinion?

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 minutes ago, pilotsugar said:

My husband is 72 and just got a physical Thursday at our doctor, but she won’t sign the form stating he is fit to cruise, even though she said he was in perfect health. I guess she thinks she will be liable if he gets sick. What do you think our next step will be? Will another doctor sign it. She said no doctor would. We are in a predictament, we have a cruise on April 13 on Celebrity Reflection, unless it gets cancelled too.  What is your opinion?

If the Celebrity form looks like the ill-conceived NCL one with language like "....free of any severe or chronic illness," no MD I know would ever sign it.

In any case, your concern may be unwarranted. IMO:

A) April 13 will come and go and cruise lines like Celebrity will have already extended their cancelled operations until at least the beginning of summer.

B) Cruise lines with a demographic that is heavily "geezer" (like us) who have decided to use this ill-conceived MD form will quickly realize their BIG mistake.

[navybankerteacher]

 

1 hour ago, pilotsugar said:

My husband is 72 and just got a physical Thursday at our doctor, but she won’t sign the form stating he is fit to cruise, even though she said he was in perfect health. I guess she thinks she will be liable if he gets sick. What do you think our next step will be? Will another doctor sign it. She said no doctor would. We are in a predictament, we have a cruise on April 13 on Celebrity Reflection, unless it gets cancelled too.  What is your opinion?

The whole notion is absurd .  Beyond the fact that no intelligent doctor would sign anything like that as it would expose him to almost certain litigation if ANY illness came up within the next few months (possibly years), it’s relevance would almost instantly disappear. Even if a doctor were to sign it, it would only advise the cruise line that as of the time it was signed the individual was in acceptable health.  Unless the check-up was performed in front of the check-in desk it would be essentially meaningless.

 

The implementation of such a poorly thought-out measure indicates that the cruise lines  were operating in panic mode.

Edited March 14, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[Host Kat]

On 3/14/2020 at 10:44 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

... If the Celebrity form looks like the ill-conceived NCL one with language like "....free of any severe or chronic illness," no MD I know would ever sign it...

 

Here is the Celebrity form attached.

 

Edited to add: Celebrity revised their form so new one attached.

 

Physician-Fit-to-Sail-Form.pdf

2-nd-physician-fit-to-sail-form (1).pdf

Edited March 17, 2020 by Host Kat
Additional information

[crystalspin]

🤣

(signed) Wife of recently retired family physician

[donaldsc]

6 hours ago, pilotsugar said:

My husband is 72 and just got a physical Thursday at our doctor, but she won’t sign the form stating he is fit to cruise, even though she said he was in perfect health. I guess she thinks she will be liable if he gets sick. What do you think our next step will be? Will another doctor sign it. She said no doctor would. We are in a predictament, we have a cruise on April 13 on Celebrity Reflection, unless it gets cancelled too.  What is your opinion?

 

Could you forge your physician's signature.  Nobody will ever know.

 

DON

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Host Kat said:

 

Here is the Celebrity form attached.

 

Physician-Fit-to-Sail-Form.pdf 49.27 kB · 9 downloads

That last line alone would convince any thinking doctor not to sign.

 

And, just in case a doctor did sign one today, would Celebrity think it would be relevant a week from now —- or a month from now — or even tomorrow?

 

The concept is so stupid that I would think twice about trusting my luggage, much less myself, on a ship managed by such clowns.

[ldubs]

Think about it.  If the cruise line wants to significantly reduce exposure to anyone 70 years & older, then this would appear to be a very effective way to do it.   

[njhorseman]

49 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Think about it.  If the cruise line wants to significantly reduce exposure to anyone 70 years & older, then this would appear to be a very effective way to do it.   

And that's why I think the wording was intentional. Cruise lines realized that few if any physicians would sign something like that so it became a convenient tool to keep the most COVID-19 vulnerable group off cruise ships until the crisis passed.

[taglovestocruise]

3 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

Could you forge your physician's signature.  Nobody will ever know.

 

DON

Exactly. May be a move to get rid of Pinnacles and reduce crowding in the Suite/Diamond Lounge.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, njhorseman said:

And that's why I think the wording was intentional. Cruise lines realized that few if any physicians would sign something like that so it became a convenient tool to keep the most COVID-19 vulnerable group off cruise ships until the crisis passed.

This might be the case - but it is hard to see how cruise lines would benefit. Yes, they would keep the most vulnerable group off cruise ships (who are, in fact, also a significant segment of their market);  but they would still be subject to being barred from ports and having their passengers placed in quarantine.   The fact that fewer of their passengers might die is a good thing - but most of the rest of the COVID-19 hassle would still be there— and their revenues would be seriously cut.

 

While opening themselves to charges of age discrimination.

Edited March 15, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[Flatbush Flyer]

Though it is third hand info, it is my understanding that the idea of the MD note came from VP Pence when he recently met with cruis industry leaders.

 

In any case, the only possible financial MD note benefit to the industry would be a gamble with limited application. Note that AFAIK the 70+ note is only being required by US based mass market lines that also have premium/luxury ships in their parent fleet. And I have yet to hear of any of the upmarket brands doing the note requirement (which, of course, would be demographic suicide for them). Perhaps the parent companies are hoping the mass market note requirement will convince their senior citizen cruisers to move up to their premium/luxury lines.

 

Just a thought.

[thinfool]

If this continues my wife will magically obtain an MD at the end of her name.

It's not like the gal at check-in is going to rifle thru the Dr registry.  It's just a cya process.

Edited March 15, 2020 by thinfool

[wheezedr]

Wow I can sign my own and just flash my state medical license even though it does say retired.  If DW is nice I will sign hers also.

[NantahalaCruiser]

Just scribble an illegible signature like every fine doctor!

[navybankerteacher]

9 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Though it is third hand info, it is my understanding that the idea of the MD note came from VP Pence when he recently met with cruis industry leaders.

 

In any case, the only possible financial MD note benefit to the industry would be a gamble with limited application. Note that AFAIK the 70+ note is only being required by US based mass market lines that also have premium/luxury ships in their parent fleet. And I have yet to hear of any of the upmarket brands doing the note requirement (which, of course, would be demographic suicide for them). Perhaps the parent companies are hoping the mass market note requirement will convince their senior citizen cruisers to move up to their premium/luxury lines.

 

Just a thought.

Probably the most rational thought on this topic.

[njhorseman]

12 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

While opening themselves to charges of age discrimination.

Under the laws of what country? With ships flagged in places like the Bahamas and Panama I doubt that's an issue. It took a ruling of the US Supreme Court a few years back just to force foreign flagged ships to make minimal accommodations for disabled passengers. Further I'd question whether courts would consider a step taken to protect the health of passengers as being discriminatory.

[navybankerteacher]

4 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Under the laws of what country? With ships flagged in places like the Bahamas and Panama I doubt that's an issue. It took a ruling of the US Supreme Court a few years back just to force foreign flagged ships to make minimal accommodations for disabled passengers. Further I'd question whether courts would consider a step taken to protect the health of passengers as being discriminatory.

While courts might not take such charges seriously, I do believe disgruntled septuagenarians would be making noises. 

[ColeThornton]

17 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

Could you forge your physician's signature.  Nobody will ever know.

 

DON

 

 

Except for that one time where someone infects a bunch of people and they investigate and all of a sudden you are looking at a felony.

[NLH Arizona]

I don't understand, if you don't have one of these illnesses heart, lung, liver or kidney disease or immunodeficiency status due to HIV/AIDS, cancer or diabetes, why your doctor wouldn't sign it.  I see it as protection for NCL if you get the virus and die on this ship or when you get home, your family couldn't sue them.  I don't see why the doctor would be liabel for anything unless they are lying when they sign the form and one does have one of the diseases. 

[leen50]

If our medical system becomes overwhelmed, why would we think that MDs are going to take the time to write and or sign a "Fit to Sail" note?

[Roger88]

On 3/14/2020 at 6:30 PM, pilotsugar said:

My husband is 72 and just got a physical Thursday at our doctor, but she won’t sign the form stating he is fit to cruise, even though she said he was in perfect health. I guess she thinks she will be liable if he gets sick. What do you think our next step will be? Will another doctor sign it. She said no doctor would. We are in a predictament, we have a cruise on April 13 on Celebrity Reflection, unless it gets cancelled too.  What is your opinion?

If I were you I would still go.. I would find some russian doctor or smth lol or even sign it myself. There was a thread about those "health lists", they are a joke. I am not even sure that anyone will be asking for those. Just sign it yourself and take a risk. Again, I would try calling the company and asking them for that matter.  You can also just get another paper from you doctor about his health condition, that he is not ill and fit to go. I am sure it will also work just fine. I wish the managers of those cruises were here to give their piece of advice on this matter 

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

I don't understand, if you don't have one of these illnesses heart, lung, liver or kidney disease or immunodeficiency status due to HIV/AIDS, cancer or diabetes, why your doctor wouldn't sign it.  I see it as protection for NCL if you get the virus and die on this ship or when you get home, your family couldn't sue them.  I don't see why the doctor would be liabel for anything unless they are lying when they sign the form and one does have one of the diseases. 

Beyond the industrial suicide for a cruise line who requires this, there is the ageism issue of requiring the note only for individuals over 70. 

 

The problem of "vulnerability" due to severe chronic disease reaches all ages. Senior citizens don't own asthma, cancer, etc. Ergo, if the industry wants the letter (as aforementioned, suicidal) the letter should be required of everyone.

 

Where's the ACLU when you need it?

[sail7seas]

On 3/14/2020 at 11:44 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

If the Celebrity form looks like the ill-conceived NCL one with language like "....free of any severe or chronic illness," no MD I know would ever sign it.

In any case, your concern may be unwarranted. IMO:

A) April 13 will come and go and cruise lines like Celebrity will have already extended their cancelled operations until at least the beginning of summer.

B) Cruise lines with a demographic that is heavily "geezer" (like us) who have decided to use this ill-conceived MD form will quickly realize their BIG mistake.

 

 

Has this person been your dh's doco for very long or is she new to treating  him?

[sail7seas]

33 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Beyond the industrial suicide for a cruise line who requires this, there is the ageism issue of requiring the note only for individuals over 70. 

 

The problem of "vulnerability" due to severe chronic disease reaches all ages. Senior citizens don't own asthma, cancer, etc. Ergo, if the industry wants the letter (as aforementioned, suicidal) the letter should be required of everyone.

 

Where's the ACLU when you need it?

 

 

Are you an  M.D?

 

I  am not being 'fresh' as  after reading your post, I think it pertinent and relevent.   :shrug:  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by sail7seas