Predict when cruising will start again post-Coronavirus

[MicCanberra]

 

59 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

8 months is what I read.

 

55 minutes ago, VK3DQ said:

Hmm and what ship will be brave enough to be the first to return to Sydney ....

 

 

Regards

John

Was supposed to be 18 months, the 1 on my keyboard is not working for some reason.

[Pushka]

9 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

Thanks Pushka, I didn't watch the video but we both know that whatever was said ten minutes ago in the US will be different ten minutes from now. I'm quite confident the rules will change to suit the whims of the "leadership" at least 100 times in the next 100 days.

This does not mean I disagree with your assessment just have witnessed more changes in tack than in the average yacht race from the "leader" in my neighbour to the south.

Yes, you are likely right. The requirements are just simply too onerous and I'd say, impossible to meet. Maybe that explains why CLIA came out fighting in their response. I'm not sure that's helpful to their cause but who knows. I think it's CDCs way of saying - no more cruises in US until Covid is actually no longer a health hazard but without actually saying that. Honestly, with another death today in SA from Ruby Princess, 16 now, maybe that's what needs to happen. Awful times. 

[Aus Traveller]

51 minutes ago, VK3DQ said:

Will we see Australian Flagged Cruise ships , I feel a number of countries have picked up on the FOC issues and will for example insist that closed loop cruises from their territories are carried on ships registered in their countries for various reasons including health control issues

Regards

John

If a ship was registered in Australia, it would probably have to pay Australian Award wages, the same as land-based tourist resorts. If this was the case, the price of cruise fares would at least double what they have been. Would we be prepared to pay that?

[DiamondFour]

1 hour ago, Docker123 said:

Simon Birmingham, minister for something, has said he does expect the national borders to be opened until the new year, sometime.

 

Advises people to holiday in Oz, once other travel restrictions allow it.

 

Not promising for ships returning soon.

 

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/borders-to-stay-closed-travellers-urged-to-see-australia-first-once-curbs-ease-20200410-p54iw4.html

I will not be holidaying or spending my holiday money in Australia ever again seeing the disgraceful comments about cruise ships and actions by our own citizens. Examples include WA Premier telling the Artania to go away and never come back leave a lot to be desired. I certainly will not be picking a holiday in that state. Same with NSW and Queensland ordering sheltering ships to leave during the crisis, again I will not be holidaying in my own state and QLD. Then there is the behaviour of Australian citizens during all of this. The hoarders, the selfish, the rude and abusive and behaviour I did not think I would ever see in this country. 

 

As soon as cruising resumes worldwide I will take one but if it leaves Sydney it will only be to the Pacific Islands. I would definitely do a cruise out of Japan or Singapore but china will never be on my itinerary. 

 

Seeing how our country behaved during this crisis has done it for me and tourism in this country and our governments response and hate campaign against cruise ships has turned me off spending my money in Australia again.

[Aus Traveller]

35 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

Amid the uncertainty, Transport and Ports Minister Andrew Constance said the proposal for a cruise terminal at Yarra Bay had now been "put on hold with all industry and community engagement suspended".

"[The terminal is] not a priority for government or industry at this time. We're still in the middle of a COVID crisis," he said.

 

Full article here.

With the negative publicity about cruise ships, I don't think the government would dare to proceed with a new terminal at the moment, no matter where it is. The Brisbane one is well on the way to completion so I don't imagine it will be affected.

[Pushka]

3 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

I will not be holidaying or spending my holiday money in Australia ever again seeing the disgraceful comments about cruise ships and actions by our own citizens. Examples include WA Premier telling the Artania to go away and never come back leave a lot to be desired. I certainly will not be picking a holiday in that state. Same with NSW and Queensland ordering sheltering ships to leave during the crisis, again I will not be holidaying in my own state and QLD. Then there is the behaviour of Australian citizens during all of this. The hoarders, the selfish, the rude and abusive and behaviour I did not think I would ever see in this country. 

 

As soon as cruising resumes worldwide I will take one but if it leaves Sydney it will only be to the Pacific Islands. I would definitely do a cruise out of Japan or Singapore but china will never be on my itinerary. 

 

Seeing how our country behaved during this crisis has done it for me and tourism in this country and our governments response and hate campaign against cruise ships has turned me off spending my money in Australia again.

 

Another death from Ruby Princess today in South Australia. That is now 16 from what appeared as a quick cruise to NZ. Regardless of what happened in NSW, that death rate is inexcusable on any level. I can understand the hate. Cruises are a bit of a dirty word here. You just hear the word 'that cruise' in general conversations - everywhere. 
 

I have no plans to return to China. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

3 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

Then there is the behaviour of Australian citizens during all of this. The hoarders, the selfish, the rude and abusive and behaviour I did not think I would ever see in this country.

Can I suggest that the selfish, rude and abusive people are in the minority. In many cases, people are helping others. We are in the 'older' age group. We are in Brisbane, but in a rather isolated area. Our neighbours who are all in their 50s have phoned or emailed us to see if we need any help.

 

I would like to give you an example of a stranger helping. When we were in Woolworths on 10th March, my husband mentioned to me that there was no long-life milk on the shelf. A man walking past, stopped and insisted on giving us the two cartons he was carrying. He said we needed it more than he did. After we left the checkout, we found that he was waiting for us. He insisted on giving us another four cartons, ones that he had paid for. We didn't want to accept, but we would have offended him if we'd refused. This is one small example of someone helping strangers and I am sure there are thousands and thousands (as Zoltina J used to say) more.

[Aus Traveller]

6 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Another death from Ruby Princess today in South Australia. That is now 16 from what appeared as a quick cruise to NZ. Regardless of what happened in NSW, that death rate is inexcusable on any level. I can understand the hate. Cruises are a bit of a dirty word here. You just hear the word 'that cruise' in general conversations - everywhere. 
 

I have no plans to return to China. 

These deaths are heart-breaking. As you say, they came as a result of a holiday.☹️

[Aus Traveller]

28 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Yes, you are likely right. The requirements are just simply too onerous and I'd say, impossible to meet. Maybe that explains why CLIA came out fighting in their response. I'm not sure that's helpful to their cause but who knows. I think it's CDCs way of saying - no more cruises in US until Covid is actually no longer a health hazard but without actually saying that.

Probably the CDC doesn't have the power to say that there can be no more cruises while COVID is around, so they suggest these onerous restrictions that would stop cruises happening.

[By The Bay]

1 hour ago, DiamondFour said:

I will not be holidaying or spending my holiday money in Australia ever again seeing the disgraceful comments about cruise ships and actions by our own citizens. Examples include WA Premier telling the Artania to go away and never come back leave a lot to be desired. I certainly will not be picking a holiday in that state. Same with NSW and Queensland ordering sheltering ships to leave during the crisis, again I will not be holidaying in my own state and QLD. Then there is the behaviour of Australian citizens during all of this. The hoarders, the selfish, the rude and abusive and behaviour I did not think I would ever see in this country. 

 

As soon as cruising resumes worldwide I will take one but if it leaves Sydney it will only be to the Pacific Islands. I would definitely do a cruise out of Japan or Singapore but china will never be on my itinerary. 

 

Seeing how our country behaved during this crisis has done it for me and tourism in this country and our governments response and hate campaign against cruise ships has turned me off spending my money in Australia again.

It was the Federal Government that ordered the cruise ships to leave.

 

"The Federal Government has ordered cruise ships to leave Australian waters by June" Click on this link for the full ABC article.

[Pushka]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

Probably the CDC doesn't have the power to say that there can be no more cruises while COVID is around, so they suggest these onerous restrictions that would stop cruises happening.

Yes. I agree with that theory. Makes sense. 

[DiamondFour]

6 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

It was the Federal Government that ordered the cruise ships to leave.

 

"The Federal Government has ordered cruise ships to leave Australian waters by June" Click on this link for the full ABC article.

I have read that before and it is disheartening to see that.

 

I know there is some that argue they operate under flags of convenience and all other tax arguments, however they do generate over 5 billion for our economy annually with tens of thousands of jobs worldwide, thousands of jobs in the supply chain, hospitality, local revenue for tourist destinations, jobs in the travel industry and the government does recoup money through income taxes, sales taxes, departure taxes etc.

 

To be fair even our governments both state and federal and both sides of politics contract out building and construction and other government jobs to overseas putting Australians out of work to save money. Examples are train and light rail carriages being constructed overseas, naval ships hulls such as the new LHDs being constructed overseas, government uniforms for some sectors being manufactured overseas etc.

 

It is a fairly futile argument to say just because a cruise line operates under a flag of convenience then we will not help it when the governments are guilty of the same cost cutting measures by exporting jobs that can be done locally overseas.

 

When I saw the article I lost faith in the humanity and care we should be showing other people. This is a crisis and these cruise ship crews are not going to be here forever or trying to drain our resources, they only want to sit it out here until it is over. If governments around the world were more caring for the foreign visitors and looked after them then we would not need to repatriate but trust our citizens are being looked after while we look after theirs.

 

Governments forget that travel and tourism is big business. All they are doing is penalising, vilifying and blaming the travel industry for a virus that is the fault of china through the illegal trade of wild animals that goes against international conventions.

 

When I saw this is how my own country treats cruise ships after all the good they have done for the economy and how much travel and tourism benefits the world economy I completely lost faith. I found the treatment mean and nasty and just careless. As I have said previously even in war we took prisoners, fed them, clothed them and provided medical supplies.

 

The world is not perfect but seeing how we are behaving here has made me lose faith in humanity. I thought we could be more caring and compassionate and help others.

[christodan]

Yes, what is all this hate towards cruise ships about ? I've never seen anything like it.

I don't get it. I hate flying and camping. But I don't go around spewing vitriol about those kinds of holidays. Each to their own. 

[Aus Traveller]

46 minutes ago, christodan said:

Yes, what is all this hate towards cruise ships about ? I've never seen anything like it.

I don't get it. I hate flying and camping. But I don't go around spewing vitriol about those kinds of holidays. Each to their own. 

I believe that the 'hate' directed at cruise ships is simply from fear: fear of this relatively unknown virus, and fear of what is happening to our lives an to our world. Maybe it is simpler for some people to focus their anger at something physical - cruise ships - rather than an invisible virus.

[GUT2407]

3 hours ago, VK3DQ said:

Hi Folks

 

Will we see Australian Flagged Cruise ships , I feel a number of countries have picked up on the FOC issues and will for example insist that closed loop cruises from their territories are carried on ships registered in their countries for various reasons including health control issues

 

 

Regards

John

 

 

 

No, they can’t afford it, imagine the crew at $18 an hour plus penalty rates. The same reason so many other jobs headed off shore.

[Blackduck59]

1 minute ago, GUT2407 said:

I am pretty sure that the maroty of deaths in NSW come from one aged care facility.

 

Yes that happened here in BC, 10 of the earliest deaths were from one seniors care facility. Shocking and sad statistic New York had more deaths on Friday than all of Canada has had to date.

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, DiamondFour said:

Governments forget that travel and tourism is big business. All they are doing is penalising, vilifying and blaming the travel industry

 

If you really cared about the travel industry you would be willing to travel domestically and put money into local tourism business yet you argue we should boycott all domestic travel because of issues with the cruise industry. You don't care about the tourist industry you only care that your favourite form travel has been denied you. Please don't pretend to care, we don't need that kind of hypocrisy. 

[Aus Traveller]

39 minutes ago, Russell21 said:

So long as the leader of the WHO keeps kissing Chinese arse I have no respect for them or any suggestion they make. I also refer to the disease as the Chinese Virus, I do believe it is one of their not so subtle weapons being used in their attempt to become world leader. If the USA does not hurry up and get their health and house in order then start learning Chinese.

I call it COVID, but I think the USA is in trouble. Unfortunately the virus got a headstart before they started on measures to contain it. Sadly, I believe their infection numbers and their death rate are much higher than reported. They are only counting people who die in hospital and who have had a positive test for COVID. Where hospitalization costs so much, people are dying at home and in aged care facilities. They aren't counted.

 

Testing isn't as widespread as in some other countries. We saw here on the forum where BRANDEE tested positive, but her husband who had similar symptoms was refused a test.

 

With the vast majority of the cruise-lines based in USA, I can see it being a long time before cruising can re-start.

[Pushka]

7 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I call it COVID, but I think the USA is in trouble. Unfortunately the virus got a headstart before they started on measures to contain it. Sadly, I believe their infection numbers and their death rate are much higher than reported. They are only counting people who die in hospital and who have had a positive test for COVID. Where hospitalization costs so much, people are dying at home and in aged care facilities. They aren't counted.

 

Testing isn't as widespread as in some other countries. We saw here on the forum where BRANDEE tested positive, but her husband who had similar symptoms was refused a test.

 

With the vast majority of the cruise-lines based in USA, I can see it being a long time before cruising can re-start.

I missed that where BRANDEE tested positive. I thought it was just her husband who was unwell. There's an article in the media where US travellers on Ruby have said they were never told anything about Covid on their cruise. 

[DiamondFour]

1 hour ago, charmed1959 said:

I have yet to hear someone refer to COVID19 as the cruise ship virus.  I actually think of the norovirus as the cruise ship virus.  
 

I came down with a respiratory virus last summer while I was on a Yangtze River Cruise. The nurse gave me impression there are many different corona virus’ that cause  respiratory symptoms, so calling it the China virus, or even the Wuhan virus, doesn’t narrow it down all that much.

 

I do find that when people refer to the virus as the China virus they often are doing that to blame all ethnic Chinese people, even those legally living in countries such as the US.  I am against the idea of blaming innocent people for a virus.  That is why I’m happy with the COVID19 name.  Yes, you can be angry there is a pandemic.  I can’t travel anywhere.  My favorite hobbies are on hiatus.  No point blaming an entire race of people.

Culturally the chinese people from mainland china have to take a collective respobsibility for the virus and its outbreak. It is through their culture and tradition that the world sees new viruses emerge from china on a regular basis.

 

Reference: https://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/country/chn/en/

 

With the abundance of wet markets and the illegal animal trade, mixing of wild animals at these markets, unhygienic practices, the stress the animals are under countries significantly to the continued threat the world faces in regards to this pandemic and others that will follow. It is clear that in 2003 the chinese people did not learn from the outbreak of SARS and what it did to the world.

 

Collectively the entire nation has to take responsibility and face drastic changes in the way they trade animals, cease some activities and accept the fact that in a fast moving world that has increasing human traffic around the world that it is no longer tenable or acceptable to continue these practices that they refuse to give up.

 

The eating of dogs in this day and age and trade of them at these markets is of serious concern. The fact that they have just registered dogs as pets and no longer livestock: https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/home/pets/coronavirus-wet-markets-china-changes-classification-of-dogs-from-livestock-to-pets/news-story/2453a07f399a8ac00229da8e94e24fd1 is a start but they need to be doing more to address their shortcomings and atone for the damage they have done to the world by continuing practices that are scientifically accepted and acknowledged worldwide cause continual and regular outbreaks of viruses.

 

This is by no means racist as our society in the past has had to come to grips with parts of our culture and routines and cease and desist with them. It is part of the evolution of the human race that we must stop practices that are dangerous to the health and continued progression of society and the human race in general. By naming it the chinaVirus would put the onus on china to atone, do more and make sure that it does not happen again. This virus was no accident. It was a warning to the entire world and china to cease these practices that endanger human civilisation as a whole.

[DiamondFour]

1 hour ago, Russell21 said:

So long as the leader of the WHO keeps kissing Chinese arse I have no respect for them or any suggestion they make. I also refer to the disease as the Chinese Virus, I do believe it is one of their not so subtle weapons being used in their attempt to become world leader. If the USA does not hurry up and get their health and house in order then start learning Chinese.

That remains to be seen but the fact that our own CSIRO has admitted on A Current Affair (I think it might have been this episode https://www.9now.com.au/a-current-affair/2020/episode-74) That once they cracked the genetic code of the virus that they were able to "produce it to an industrial capacity" is highly concerning and very scary. To be able to produce this virus to supply to scientific institutions and experts to test cures and vaccines also means that this virus could in theory be used as a weapon and dispensed in public places causing large clusters of outbreaks with smaller areas of secondary infection by infected persons. It is definitely no bio-engineered weapon as the experts have said but it is a naturally occurring virus in nature. Even so if someone was able to discover this and know what it could do then using it as a weapon is possible and allows the attacker a two week window of opportunity to escape and evade detection. The only clues for bio-attacks are large clusters that are much larger than areas in the rest of the population.

[Aus Traveller]

15 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I missed that where BRANDEE tested positive. I thought it was just her husband who was unwell. There's an article in the media where US travellers on Ruby have said they were never told anything about Covid on their cruise. 

I find that difficult to believe (Mr Smart - quoting an old TV show). We boarded the Sea Princess on 23rd February (yes, I know, different ship, but same company). In our cabin - correction, stateroom - there was a two page A4 information sheet from the Australian Health Dept about Coronavirus. I believe that this sheet would have been supplied on the Ruby as well.

 

From what someone on this forum posted, passengers on the Ruby were told during the cruise to report to the medical centre if they had respiratory symptoms. I have never heard that announcement on a cruise, only sometimes an announcement about Noro. I read that, before arriving in Sydney, passengers had to fill out a form with specific questions their own personal health.  It was also stated that on the last day, all passengers were given an information sheet about self-quarantine.  The sheet would have mentioned the reason - coronavirus! It would have been strange if the information sheet didn't mention the reason they had to self-isolate. I have also read that all passengers were given a sheet in the terminal from the Aust Department of Agriculture, Water and the Environment about coronavirus, self-quarantine and health precautions.

 

BTW, surely everyone who listened to any news or read a newspaper knew about Coronavirus before the 8th March. We left on 23rd February and had been following it. They were told about it on the ship, but did they really need to be told? Of course, they had to told the new rules about self-isolating that came in on 15th March. For someone to say that they weren't given this instruction, beggars belief.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[OzKiwiJJ]

"There are none so blind as those that will not see".

 

It's been very interesting seeing different reports from people onboard Ruby. Some say there was no information, others say there was. I say that a number of people either don't listen to or read the information they are given, or don't take any notice of it. I've certainly seen evidence of this on Princess cruises I have done where the safety briefing instructs people to cover their mouths when they cough and to cough into the arm, not hand, or into a tissue. Then I see people ignoring that instruction during the cruise.

[pully8]

Back to the subject of cruising.

We miss the opportunity to research our next holiday.

It was part of the travel experience the planning and organising and having something to look forward too.

Grim if this drags on for more than 12 months but without a vaccine an exit plan seems remote? 

[The_Big_M]

7 hours ago, VK3DQ said:

Hi Folks

 

Will we see Australian Flagged Cruise ships , I feel a number of countries have picked up on the FOC issues and will for example insist that closed loop cruises from their territories are carried on ships registered in their countries for various reasons including health control issues

 

 

They're already possible, but too expensive for the mass market. They've got to operate at what the market will pay, so just like mass Australian cars, not something on the horizon.