Predict when cruising will start again post-Coronavirus

[The_Big_M]

6 hours ago, DiamondFour said:

Seeing how our country behaved during this crisis has done it for me and tourism in this country and our governments response and hate campaign against cruise ships has turned me off spending my money in Australia again.

 

So no bus trips either?

[MicCanberra]

1 hour ago, The_Big_M said:

 

So no bus trips either?

I am sure that money  (or the lack there of) will overrule any principals eventually.

[subaru94]

4 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I find that difficult to believe (Mr Smart - quoting an old TV show). We boarded the Sea Princess on 23rd February (yes, I know, different ship, but same company). In our cabin - correction, stateroom - there was a two page A4 information sheet from the Australian Health Dept about Coronavirus. I believe that this sheet would have been supplied on the Ruby as well.

 

From what someone on this forum posted, passengers on the Ruby were told during the cruise to report to the medical centre if they had respiratory symptoms. I have never heard that announcement on a cruise, only sometimes an announcement about Noro. I read that, before arriving in Sydney, passengers had to fill out a form with specific questions their own personal health.  It was also stated that on the last day, all passengers were given an information sheet about self-quarantine.  The sheet would have mentioned the reason - coronavirus! It would have been strange if the information sheet didn't mention the reason they had to self-isolate. I have also read that all passengers were given a sheet in the terminal from the Aust Department of Agriculture, Water and the Environment about coronavirus, self-quarantine and health precautions.

 

BTW, surely everyone who listened to any news or read a newspaper knew about Coronavirus before the 8th March. We left on 23rd February and had been following it. They were told about it on the ship, but did they really need to be told? Of course, they had to told the new rules about self-isolating that came in on 15th March. For someone to say that they weren't given this instruction, beggars belief.

 

That is true, however, media, will keep asking passengers questions, and you always get the ones who said they never got told etc. there were other passengers who said the captain kept them informed and information was passed on.  It really annoys me when media go after negative instead of truth, and you always have people who enjoy not telling the truth unfortunately.  In regards to Ruby it does come down to N.S.W. government not checking passengers coming off the ship or checking passports. 

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, subaru94 said:

That is true, however, media, will keep asking passengers questions, and you always get the ones who said they never got told etc. there were other passengers who said the captain kept them informed and information was passed on.  It really annoys me when media go after negative instead of truth, and you always have people who enjoy not telling the truth unfortunately.  In regards to Ruby it does come down to N.S.W. government not checking passengers coming off the ship or checking passports. 

Agreed. The media want a story, so having people say they weren't told fits in with their requirements. I agree, that the issue comes down to the NSW government not checking passengers, although I point out that it is at a couple of years since we have had to show passports when we disembark from a cruise at an Australian port. Passengers just have to hand in their 'incoming passenger declaration' form. We have been told that authorities on the ship give the full passenger manifest to Border Force electronically so the names and details are entered into the system.

[Peterpatter]

2 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

Agreed. The media want a story, so having people say they weren't told fits in with their requirements. I agree, that the issue comes down to the NSW government not checking passengers, although I point out that it is at a couple of years since we have had to show passports when we disembark from a cruise at an Australian port. Passengers just have to hand in their 'incoming passenger declaration' form. We have been told that authorities on the ship give the full passenger manifest to Border Force electronically so the names and details are entered into the system.

Well there are a few issues here. One is after Diamond Princess the whole world was aware that a cruise ship is probably not a safe place to be. Certainly a ship is not a good quarantine platform.

Following Diamond this has escalated to be correct. Secondly cruise companies continued cruising as if there was no invisible highly contagious killer in the ether until they found it difficult to keep  to itineraries due to governments realising the threat started to close borders and consequently cruise ports. 

So was there any cruise line that cancelled cruises to protect guests and crew? I think cruises were cancelled as they became geographically untenable. Even now cruises are not cancelled in the near future which suggests they are waiting for final payment so a FCC can be offered instead of a refund (anyone got a refund from Cunard Aust cruises yet???) Did the authorities get it wrong - probably. Should the cruise have gone ahead - probably not. Do we expect cruisers to be honest about their health on the day- probably not especially if the amount paid for the cruise is not refundable. In retrospect I think the authorities would do it differently . We need to be patient for the official police investigation to run its course. 

Lastly with respect those still unwell and the sixteen people that joined a wonderful cruise to New Zealand on Ruby Princess and have now lost their lives I think we need to recognise that this virus is highly virulent on s cruise ship.i might be a little disappointed with fellow cruisers complaining that their cruises are cancelled and wondering if their June cruise will go ahead and if cruises will drop in price when they are allowed to resume. Kind of selfish and remote from reality when so many fellow cruisers worldwide have been marooned far from home or experienced a terrible illness to varying degrees or have lost their lives. I wish we could turn back the clock and we could just enjoy endless wonderful itineraries without having this damn thing to contend with.

 

[pully8]

This is indeed a dreadful global pandemic and the death toll is outside many expectations. However the world has experienced tragic mass disruption and loss of human life before and will likely do so again.

Unclear how long these restrictions will continue likely months perhaps even a couple of years.

Difficult and challenging times but cannot be sustained forever,

People will want to travel or may need to do so and there will be a market for it.

When that happens many will take the opportunity including us.

[DiamondFour]

9 hours ago, Peterpatter said:

Well there are a few issues here. One is after Diamond Princess the whole world was aware that a cruise ship is probably not a safe place to be. Certainly a ship is not a good quarantine platform.

Following Diamond this has escalated to be correct. Secondly cruise companies continued cruising as if there was no invisible highly contagious killer in the ether until they found it difficult to keep  to itineraries due to governments realising the threat started to close borders and consequently cruise ports. 

So was there any cruise line that cancelled cruises to protect guests and crew? I think cruises were cancelled as they became geographically untenable. Even now cruises are not cancelled in the near future which suggests they are waiting for final payment so a FCC can be offered instead of a refund (anyone got a refund from Cunard Aust cruises yet???) Did the authorities get it wrong - probably. Should the cruise have gone ahead - probably not. Do we expect cruisers to be honest about their health on the day- probably not especially if the amount paid for the cruise is not refundable. In retrospect I think the authorities would do it differently . We need to be patient for the official police investigation to run its course. 

Lastly with respect those still unwell and the sixteen people that joined a wonderful cruise to New Zealand on Ruby Princess and have now lost their lives I think we need to recognise that this virus is highly virulent on s cruise ship.i might be a little disappointed with fellow cruisers complaining that their cruises are cancelled and wondering if their June cruise will go ahead and if cruises will drop in price when they are allowed to resume. Kind of selfish and remote from reality when so many fellow cruisers worldwide have been marooned far from home or experienced a terrible illness to varying degrees or have lost their lives. I wish we could turn back the clock and we could just enjoy endless wonderful itineraries without having this damn thing to contend with.

 

That is totally incorrect about Diamond Princess.

 

I was on it and did not catch the virus. There were up to 3,000 other people on it that did not catch it. The investigation concluded that most passengers caught the virus prior to quarantine starting and also two crew members were diagnosed with it who were preparing food for the passengers. Overall the Diamond Princess quarantine was a tremendous success and the typical uneducated "armchair generals" in media organisations painted a bad picture of it. The Diamond Princess was handled professionally and carefully. For 3,000 people not to get infected is a tremendous achievement for such a confined space.

 

One issue that people overlook with Diamond Princess (and I know because I was there) is that people believed the rubbish in the media about new cases on a daily basis. This is not true. Tests were done and took days to come back with results so while on some days we had different numbers consecutively they were ultimately from tests done days prior.

 

I would happily do quarantine on the Diamond Princess again. Even the Ruby Princess. Put me on it and in a clean cabin and I can guarantee I would not get the virus.

 

I spent the full two weeks on Diamond Princess quarantine in a penthouse suite on C deck midships. Never needed to leave the suite at all.

[Pushka]

Is that like Boris shaking Covid patients hands saying he will not get the virus? 

[Peterpatter]

6 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Is that like Boris shaking Covid patients hands saying he will not get the virus? 

Agree Pushka very intrepid to offer to quarantine on board again in a penthouse no less. Perhaps the chance may present itself yet to accommodate this cavalier resolve . I think  we do know how many cases there were on board without being on board to personally count them.

However to guarantee you would not get the virus is fantasy. 

[Blackduck59]

22 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Is that like Boris shaking Covid patients hands saying he will not get the virus? 

 

I have to assume this in response to some genius statement from that precious gem person. I have chosen to disregard that person...bad for the blood pressure.

[Aus Traveller]

10 hours ago, Peterpatter said:

Well there are a few issues here. One is after Diamond Princess the whole world was aware that a cruise ship is probably not a safe place to be. Certainly a ship is not a good quarantine platform.

Following Diamond this has escalated to be correct. Secondly cruise companies continued cruising as if there was no invisible highly contagious killer in the ether until they found it difficult to keep  to itineraries due to governments realising the threat started to close borders and consequently cruise ports. 

So was there any cruise line that cancelled cruises to protect guests and crew? I think cruises were cancelled as they became geographically untenable.

The Diamond Princess worked very well as a quarantine platform - it quarantined the infected people from the Japanese population (except for a few workers who contracted COVID when they went on board.)

 

Princess cancelled cruises on 12th March, the day after WHO declared coronavirus a pandemic. At that time only a few ports in the Pacific were closed.

[Pushka]

3 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

I have to assume this in response to some genius statement from that precious gem person. I have chosen to disregard that person...bad for the blood pressure.

Indeed. I read your earlier comment about ignoring but seeing those posts when others requoted so I took note of that, but it does make things look a bit out of context. 
 

Basically a statement that staying in a Penthouse on Diamond during that quarantine was perfectly acceptable and that it could be repeated and they still wouldn't catch Covid. 

[Aus Traveller]

10 hours ago, Peterpatter said:

Lastly with respect those still unwell and the sixteen people that joined a wonderful cruise to New Zealand on Ruby Princess and have now lost their lives I think we need to recognise that this virus is highly virulent on s cruise ship.

 

The COVID virus spread very easily and is extremely contagious. Any place where people congregate is an ideal setting for it to spread. Unfortunately, a cruise ship is one such ideal setting.

[chipmaster]

7 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

The Diamond Princess worked very well as a quarantine platform - it quarantined the infected people from the Japanese population (except for a few workers who contracted COVID when they went on board.)

 

Princess cancelled cruises on 12th March, the day after WHO declared coronavirus a pandemic. At that time only a few ports in the Pacific were closed.

 

You are joking, look at Japan, the cases there and its increase has NOTHING to do with the Diamond.

 

If you look at their trend below it is terrible, they better get on it or they will have a disaster on hand with their older population.

 

Princes and every other line was irresponsible, they looked for every excuse to keep cruising till they had no choice.   From what the little I read, they also did little on ship, it was all about business and making money.   

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by chipmaster

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

Indeed. I read your earlier comment about ignoring but seeing those posts when others requoted so I took note of that, but it does make things look a bit out of context. 
 

Basically a statement that staying in a Penthouse on Diamond during that quarantine was perfectly acceptable and that it could be repeated and they still wouldn't catch Covid. 

He said that he spent the two weeks quarantine in a penthouse suite (in one post he said it was an 'up-sell') and didn't need to leave it during the quarantine. (He didn't actually say it was "perfectly acceptable".) He has also said he was concerned about the food on the Diamond, so he only ate food that was sealed - boiled eggs, fruit he could peel etc. It turned out that this concern was well-placed: two crew who were preparing passengers' food, tested positive.

[Pushka]

2 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

He said that he spent the two weeks quarantine in a penthouse suite (in one post he said it was an 'up-sell') and didn't need to leave it during the quarantine. (He didn't actually say it was "perfectly acceptable".) He has also said he was concerned about the food on the Diamond, so he only ate food that was sealed - boiled eggs, fruit he could peel etc. It turned out that this concern was well-placed: two crew who were preparing passengers' food, tested positive.

I didn't see the comment about the food. A different thread maybe? But I'm thinking if they were prepared to repeat the exercise then it was indeed perfectly acceptable. My interpretation of course. 

[Aus Traveller]

9 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

You are joking, look at Japan, the cases there and its increase has NOTHING to do with the Diamond.

 

If you look at their trend below it is terrible, they better get on it or they will have a disaster on hand with their older population.

 

 

 

You are confirming what I said. The cases of COVID in Japan had nothing to do with the Diamond (except for a small number). Therefore the quarantine worked. The quarantine was not to protect the passengers, it was to protect the Japanese population. On-board isolation was put in place to try to protect the passengers.

 

If the Japanese authorities had released the Diamond's passengers into the population instead of keeping them confined on the ship, the virus would have spread much faster and much earlier. Keep in mind that a large percentage of the passengers were Japanese citizens and they would have returned to their homes, taking the virus with them.

 

The Japanese report and the American CDC report both state that there was no transmission of the virus from passenger to passenger after the quarantine was put in place. (Forget the theories about the ventilation system.) By keeping the passengers on the ship, testing could be carried out, although this was much slower than ideal.

 

I believe the Japanese put a fantastic effort into handling the Diamond, but they made mistakes. While governments were, and still are, learning how to handle this virus, this is probably inevitable.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[MicCanberra]

39 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Indeed. I read your earlier comment about ignoring but seeing those posts when others requoted so I took note of that, but it does make things look a bit out of context. 
 

Basically a statement that staying in a Penthouse on Diamond during that quarantine was perfectly acceptable and that it could be repeated and they still wouldn't catch Covid. 

Hmmm, Solo passenger in a penthouse cabin, such a hardship.

[MicCanberra]

41 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

Princes and every other line was irresponsible, they looked for every excuse to keep cruising till they had no choice.   From what the little I read, they also did little on ship, it was all about business and making money.   

Well they are a business after all, just like many other companies that have continued to the detriment of their clients and workers. Governments can be blamed for the same, as they didn't do many things straight away and only did so after their hands were forced.

[Pushka]

31 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

You are confirming what I said. The cases of COVID in Japan had nothing to do with the Diamond (except for a small number). Therefore the quarantine worked. The quarantine was not to protect the passengers, it was to protect the Japanese population. On-board isolation was put in place to try to protect the passengers.

 

If the Japanese authorities had released the Diamond's passengers into the population instead of keeping them confined on the ship, the virus would have spread much faster and much earlier. Keep in mind that a large percentage of the passengers were Japanese citizens and they would have returned to their homes, taking the virus with them.

 

The Japanese report and the American CDC report both state that there was no transmission of the virus from passenger to passenger after the quarantine was put in place. (Forget the theories about the ventilation system.) By keeping the passengers on the ship, testing could be carried out, although this was much slower than ideal.

 

I believe the Japanese put a fantastic effort into handling the Diamond, but they made mistakes. While governments were, and still are, learning how to handle this virus, this is probably inevitable.

 

Yep, Japan would have have a Ruby disaster if things had been done by them differently. Considering it was such early days of Covid too. So managing the ship was the only thing they could do. 
 

At least when Ruby hit Australia there was some later knowledge that people needed to be isolated which by and large, they seem to have done, otherwise it could have been so much worse than it was. 

[Aus Traveller]

26 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Hmmm, Solo passenger in a penthouse cabin, such a hardship.

Maybe he was a solo, but maybe he was accompanied by his wife. In one post (maybe a throwaway line) he remarked that "maybe I am married to a Japanese woman".

Edited April 13, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, chipmaster said:

Princes and every other line was irresponsible, they looked for every excuse to keep cruising till they had no choice.   From what the little I read, they also did little on ship, it was all about business and making money.   

 

Under our capitalist system, companies exist to make money. Actually, it is a legal responsibility of the Board of Directors to look after their shareholders' interests by making money. That is the way our system works. Of course, we don't want companies to be heartless, but that is another issue.

[Pushka]

Just now, Aus Traveller said:

Under our capitalist system, companies exist to make money. Actually, it is a legal responsibility of the Board of Directors to look after their shareholders' interests by making money. That is the way our system works. Of course, we don't want companies to be heartless, but that is another issue.

I wonder if the Directors have the same responsibility in the US though? Mind you, the number of Directors who seem to escape with no penalty from ASIC for trading whilst insolvent does make rather a joke of all our regulatory processes here. 

[Chiliburn]

There’s been another twist in this saga.

The virus has mutated twice,so there’s three strains. 
‘It could become more or less fatal and it will complicate a vaccine. If we ever get one?

 

[Aus Traveller]

The latest announcement by the American CDC would effectively stop any cruising in waters controlled by USA until the pandemic is over. The restrictions are such that I can't see how a cruise could operate in the next year or maybe longer in USA waters. Here is a link

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/irenelevine/2020/04/11/cdc-extends-no-sail-order-for-cruise-ships/#32d450b0e4ee