Ideas to restart people cruising over coming months

[sail7seas]

On 3/21/2020 at 7:35 PM, TAD2005 said:

A "bailout" is taxpayer money given to a company or industry that has totally screwed up operating their business,  didn't plan properly for the future, but were considered "too big to fail" so they get the bailout.   Their poor business practices caused them to fail, but their failure would hurt the economy  more than the cost of their bailout, so we all hold our nose and bail them out.  This virus is nobody's fault (well maybe if China was a little more open about it, it may not be so widespread),  so funds going to impacted businesses who are in danger of failing through no fault of their own,  would not be considered a bailout.   We spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year on grants to universities to study pet projects of congressional donors.   Why not spend those billions on keeping our economy moving during this temporary shutdown ?

 

 

 

I agree .      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gatour]

On 3/21/2020 at 6:30 PM, slidergirl said:

A "cruise bail out' isn't a bail out for the hospitality businesses at the ports.  They are already going to be out of business.   New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles - a cruise bail out isn't going to help them.  The bail out money needs to go directly to those businesses to get back in the game.  A cruise company who doesn't use the US as it's ship flag doesn't deserve any money.  They can go grovel to their flag countries for money.  From someone who needs that $1000 "bail out' money to pay next month's mortgage...

I am on the fence on about a cruise line bail out vs other company's being bailed out.

 

However, I would recommend you research the ramifications of requiring ships being US Flagged.  First part of research about NCL and them trying to US flag two of their ships.  They got to one and then had staffing issues.  Threw in the towel for the second ship.  This is after the federal gov't bent over backwards to get both ships certified as US Built.

 

To be US flagged they have to be built in a US shipyard.  Except for the one NCL ship no other mass market cruise ship company has a ship that was built in the US.  

 

American Cruise Lines is US flagged manned by US citizens

Ditto for, American Steam Boat Company.

 

You might want to check out their fares, to see how a Caribbean cruise would cost.  Provided that RCCL, Carnival etc could find a US shipyard to do a new build for US flag purposes.  They won't because none exists.  The big ship yards (Norfolk) are tied into the DOD building things like aircraft carriers.

 

Again I am on the fence about cruise line bailouts vs other sector bail outs.

 

 

[ShipWalker]

Just bring back plastic straws and they won't need a bailout.

[dandee2]

As a canadian I will only cruise from a canadian port to another canadian port. No way I'm going to be stuck across the world . Lawmaker will have to change many Laws to make this happen (and save the cruise industry).

And yea, bring back the straws 

Edited March 23, 2020 by dandee2
added text

[slidergirl]

48 minutes ago, gatour said:

I am on the fence on about a cruise line bail out vs other company's being bailed out.

 

However, I would recommend you research the ramifications of requiring ships being US Flagged.  First part of research about NCL and them trying to US flag two of their ships.  They got to one and then had staffing issues.  Threw in the towel for the second ship.  This is after the federal gov't bent over backwards to get both ships certified as US Built.

 

To be US flagged they have to be built in a US shipyard.  Except for the one NCL ship no other mass market cruise ship company has a ship that was built in the US.  

 

American Cruise Lines is US flagged manned by US citizens

Ditto for, American Steam Boat Company.

 

You might want to check out their fares, to see how a Caribbean cruise would cost.  Provided that RCCL, Carnival etc could find a US shipyard to do a new build for US flag purposes.  They won't because none exists.  The big ship yards (Norfolk) are tied into the DOD building things like aircraft carriers.

 

Again I am on the fence about cruise line bailouts vs other sector bail outs.

 

 

Then, the companies have to stop playing the game of being a US company but have their ships flagged elsewhere.   

I am full aware of the "issues" with US-flagged ships.  Companies have to have x% of staff as Americans, pay a higher wage, get the US kids who won't be subservient and won't work 10 hr/6 day/week.  I remember when the NCL Hawaii cruises started - people bit@ched and moaned about how the US staff wasn't like the foreign staff, kids quit quickly before their contracts were up, they had trouble finding replacements.  I know that no US company wants to build a ship - I think that was a big issue when NCL was trying to get another ship.  I think there was one in New Orleans, but it fell through. 

 

Convenience-flagged ships can employ thousands of foreigners from poor countries who are willing to do whatever it takes to make some money for their families.  Just like here - not too many Americans being dishwashers, lawn mowers, but lots of foreigners wanting those jobs to make money for their families.  

 

Yes, fares are rock bottom.  A lot of that is due to crew pay.  And, not having to adhere to all US rules and laws.   Personally, that's not my problem.  If the prices have to go up to be a US company, do it or go elsewhere.  The ships will still be around, and people will pay for a foreign-based cruise line that actually caters to US tastes.   

 

I'm thinking Carnival Corp will get something because of the "special" relationship between Arison and Trump...

[npcl]

On 3/21/2020 at 11:15 AM, slidergirl said:

People ARE avoiding all Hiltons.  And Marriotts, and Hyatts, and little boutique hotels...  And we employees have either been told to "take a few months off without pay" or outright terminated (I was terminated).   No one knows how many hotels have had a case of COVID-19 - people come and go, not like on a cruise ship.  In my resort town, a bounce at one of our bars tested positive.  He had been nowhere but home and his job.  He had to great hundreds of tourists each night, handled hundreds of IDs each night.  One of those tourists infected him.  Where was that tourist staying?  At one of our local hotels.   My little condo project that I worked at went from all 40 units full and booked through the end of the season to everyone cancelled out and only 2 owners staying in house because they don't want to fly home to California or Florida - in a 3 day span.   That's why we are self-isolating - we had contact with so many tourists in our jobs in the restaurants, bars, and hotels that we can't be positive we didn't have contact.  So, you may not have a "documented" case on a cruise ship, because not everyone in the world is being tested, you have no way of knowing you had someone is infected but asymptomatic onboard who can spread COVID-19 to others.  

 

As far as the cruise bailout:  I agree that major changes must be made by the cruise companies if they want that bailout.  At a minimum, they should be required to re-flag 51% of their ships to the US and be required to adhere to all US laws and guidelines for cruise ships.  If they don't want to, then don't take the money.   But, with the friendship between a certain cruise owner and a certain high-ranking government official, I bet that HAL will come out of it with cash in hand...

Hopefully you qualify for unemployment and was terminated without bias, in that they will hire you back as soon as the situation changes.

[iancal]

This notion of re-flagging is multi dimensional and I would expect that the cruise lines will fight it tooth and nail.  It goes to the heart of their business.

 

This is about health and safety, labor laws, employment standards,  tax,  jurisdiction over things like litigation, and much, much more.   Ships are not built in the US for a reason.  Cost and Gov't subsidies.  These sorts of things can roll off the tongue very easily however the implementation and the ramifications to the Corporations and to the current pricing structure of cruises is huge.   My guess is that the cruise line lobby will be just as successful as they have been in the past at getting (or avoiding) the legislation that they want. 

[jmkennett]

On 3/18/2020 at 4:37 PM, TAD2005 said:

When a cruise ship would develop 10 - 20 cases of Noro-virus,  it would be news somewhere, and gone the next day.  The coronavirus seems, so far, more contagious but the final numbers will not be in for many months.   But when this all settles down in a few months (hoping) and cruises resume, what will happen when one guest onboard a ship has to be taken to a hospital for any kind of respiratory disease at a port ?   That news will spread like wildfire, and the government health ministers in the next ports on the itinerary will start getting nervous.   They certainly do not want to be the "guy in charge" who allows that ship to dock, so to save his own butt, he will block docking of that ship.   That news will also travel like wildfire in our social media society.  Ports next on the itinerary will think, "what does that health agent know that we don't", and to play it safe, the next port will be closed to that ship.  And the domino effect takes over.   I hope this doesn't happen, but the media just loves to embellish bad news about the cruise industry, mostly to generate ratings and clicks.   We have an Oct 2020 Rotterdam cruise and a Sept 2021 Ryndam cruise booked.   Right now, we are wondering if this will be winding down in time for a July 3rd final payment.

 

I also think the Walmart comments by member Donald from China are despicable, and politically motivated.  That kind of trashing of people just because you don't fit within their social structure does not belong on CC.  Do it on Twitter or Facebook, if that kind of trash-talk makes you feel superior..

That is my biggest fear.  Don’t know how cruise execs get past this.  Government officials are so quick to react, it’s scary.  No thought of consequences, just act to protect their image.  It’s going to be a PR nightmare for cruise lines until we have a vaccine or a viable treatment.  So frustrating, because every time you go on a cruise, it’s Russian Roulette that if someone coughs, they’ll want to quarantine.  This will be really tough for cruise lines to overcome.

[slidergirl]

14 hours ago, npcl said:

Hopefully you qualify for unemployment and was terminated without bias, in that they will hire you back as soon as the situation changes.

Well, I was terminated without bias and the letter I was given said it was due to shortened season.  Unfortunately, I'm not eligible for unemployment (a long story).  I pulled a little money from my one 401K just before everything tanked so I can make do for a month or two.  By then, hopefully, the summer season jobs will open up and I can catch on - at this point a $9/hr job sounds like a good thing.   As far as the employer, I probably won't have a job with them until November again - they are fairly slow in the summer anyway. 

[JeffElizabeth]

Life has risks. I imagine some people will weigh the risks and return to cruising, especially if the price is right. I know people who like to travel to semi-dangerous areas like the Middle East. Others are fine just going to Canada and Alaska. During the shutdown, we have already booked a cruise to Hawaii from Canada and back. I am more worried about the government cancelling it than dying of Covid-19. 

[Wehwalt]

2 minutes ago, JeffElizabeth said:

Life has risks. I imagine some people will weigh the risks and return to cruising, especially if the price is right. I know people who like to travel to semi-dangerous areas like the Middle East. Others are fine just going to Canada and Alaska. During the shutdown, we have already booked a cruise to Hawaii from Canada and back. I am more worried about the government cancelling it than dying of Covid-19. 

I hope you've booked a balcony!

[npcl]

3 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Well, I was terminated without bias and the letter I was given said it was due to shortened season.  Unfortunately, I'm not eligible for unemployment (a long story).  I pulled a little money from my one 401K just before everything tanked so I can make do for a month or two.  By then, hopefully, the summer season jobs will open up and I can catch on - at this point a $9/hr job sounds like a good thing.   As far as the employer, I probably won't have a job with them until November again - they are fairly slow in the summer anyway. 

Sorry to hear that.  If there are any large distribution in you area a number of them tend to be hiring. Heard of some areas where the big hotel chains and Amazon are working together for those laid off. What area are you in?

[slidergirl]

6 hours ago, npcl said:

Sorry to hear that.  If there are any large distribution in you area a number of them tend to be hiring. Heard of some areas where the big hotel chains and Amazon are working together for those laid off. What area are you in?

the big chains just laid off huge chunks of staff up here.  They aren't helping a bit - no severance pay, but the managers keep their salary.   If I wanted to drive 60 miles each direction, I could maybe get a job in the Amazon warehouse.   I'm a resort town resident, so we're pretty much shut down - hotels vacant, bars shut down, restaurants carry out only *and many are starting to shutdown because they're getting maybe 1 or 2 orders a night*, some local shops shutting down because they have no traffic.  I'm in a better situation than many - I have a home and a car.  Some seasonal workers were given until Wednesday to get out of employee housing and they have no place to go.  Many rely on our bus system to get around and to get to where Amazon would be, there is no public transportation and a $40 Uber ride each way.   When you don't live in a city, a whole new set of issues are there. 

I can't believe I'm the only one who is on CC who has lost a job so far...

[cruisemom42]

8 hours ago, slidergirl said:

 

I can't believe I'm the only one who is on CC who has lost a job so far...

 

Sorry to hear about you losing your job -- sometimes I can't believe how quickly we went from Prince Harry and Megan Markle in the headlines to the coronavirus apocalypse...  I hope you have reserves (of friends and fortitude, not just money) to see you through. 

 

(And I suspect a majority of CCers are retired, especially on the HAL forum...)

[slidergirl]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Sorry to hear about you losing your job -- sometimes I can't believe how quickly we went from Prince Harry and Megan Markle in the headlines to the coronavirus apocalypse...  I hope you have reserves (of friends and fortitude, not just money) to see you through. 

 

(And I suspect a majority of CCers are retired, especially on the HAL forum...)

I'm going to stop whining.  I'm in a tough and tight situation, but nowhere near what many in my little town are in.  I'll get through.  And, unlike the Lt. Gov. of Texas, I am NOT willing to sacrifice myself to help the economy!  

[sail7seas]

On 3/21/2020 at 7:35 PM, TAD2005 said:

A "bailout" is taxpayer money given to a company or industry that has totally screwed up operating their business,  didn't plan properly for the future, but were considered "too big to fail" so they get the bailout.   Their poor business practices caused them to fail, but their failure would hurt the economy  more than the cost of their bailout, so we all hold our nose and bail them out.  This virus is nobody's fault (well maybe if China was a little more open about it, it may not be so widespread),  so funds going to impacted businesses who are in danger of failing through no fault of their own,  would not be considered a bailout.   We spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year on grants to universities to study pet projects of congressional donors.   Why not spend those billions on keeping our economee,  you might  wish  t

 

Speaker  Pelosi   et al are deciding that   now  -)--- or,   fighting about it  right  now

 

[sail7seas]

1 hour ago, slidergirl said:

I'm going to stop whining.  I'm in a tough and tight situation, but nowhere near what many in my little town are in.  I'll get through.  And, unlike the Lt. Gov. of Texas, I am NOT willing to sacrifice myself to help the economy!  

 

Most retired  people who continue to cruise  (one would hope) are able  to do so   thanks to years of careful planning for  their retirement.    Hopefully all of us here                                                                                                           and cruising  know  the

truth  of what they can afford.   That, during  their working years/  careers, they planned   ahead for how they could enjoy their hoped for retirement.

[sail7seas]

On 3/20/2020 at 5:29 PM, Dunelm said:

I wonder about ABC, too.   They just came out with another poll, not related to the virus, and had polled only 547 people.  I happen to think that such polling is rubbish.

FOUR  years  ago, polls said   Donald J. Trump could not win  his election .......   OH how wrong they  were

Edited March 24, 2020 by sail7seas

[npcl]

23 hours ago, slidergirl said:

the big chains just laid off huge chunks of staff up here.  They aren't helping a bit - no severance pay, but the managers keep their salary.   If I wanted to drive 60 miles each direction, I could maybe get a job in the Amazon warehouse.   I'm a resort town resident, so we're pretty much shut down - hotels vacant, bars shut down, restaurants carry out only *and many are starting to shutdown because they're getting maybe 1 or 2 orders a night*, some local shops shutting down because they have no traffic.  I'm in a better situation than many - I have a home and a car.  Some seasonal workers were given until Wednesday to get out of employee housing and they have no place to go.  Many rely on our bus system to get around and to get to where Amazon would be, there is no public transportation and a $40 Uber ride each way.   When you don't live in a city, a whole new set of issues are there. 

I can't believe I'm the only one who is on CC who has lost a job so far...

Sounds like what from friends of mine are dealing with around ski areas (Mammoth, Tahoe, etc)

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

Sounds like what from friends of mine are dealing with around ski areas (Mammoth, Tahoe, etc)

 

I'm sure that's exactly what they are dealing with.  Everyone was starting to get prepared for the end of season, looking for summer jobs, looking for summer housing.  But, when you go from having a month or more to prep down to maybe a week to pack out and ship out, it's a pretty dire situation.  And, the loss of that tiny bit of income you were counting on makes for desperate situations.    Usually, resort seasonals can go from one gig to another without too much pain, but this year it is certainly not the case.  

[lyndarra]

On 3/18/2020 at 10:42 AM, Shmoo here said:

The Jones Act applies to cargo.  Not passenger vessels.

 

I doubt that even this pandemic will enable the revocation of the Passenger Vessel Services Act, however.

 

 

Find a way for the politicians to make $$$ out of it and it'll get changed.

[Wehwalt]

Is there truly a demand for all-US itineraries, not including the special case of the single foreign call on Hawaii itineraries?

[Dunelm]

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 3:57 PM, TAD2005 said:

What a depressing bunch of posts.   The regular, seasonal flu kills tens of thousands every year and hardly generates a note on page 20 of the newspapers.    People bemoaning that China had 28 new cases in one day.  OMG !!!!   But remember, China has well over a BILLION people.   I don't know how many zeros after the decimal point we would need to show that percentage.   I'm for a wait and see approach.   

I just hope that on March 27, you have "eyes that perceive."  I think your watching and waiting should be over by now,

[npcl]

On 3/25/2020 at 1:28 AM, Wehwalt said:

Is there truly a demand for all-US itineraries, not including the special case of the single foreign call on Hawaii itineraries?

The cruise lines haven't exactly pushed for them.  There have been a couple of cases where waivers were allowed such as one Involving Puerto Rico but from what I recall they ended up not being profitable routes and got dropped.

 

Alaska might be an exception, but as long as things are bad enough that Canada ports remain closed I would not expect Alaska to want the ships in.

[Dunelm]

I am concerned that "Nationalism" is rearing its ugly head.  When it has done so before, historically the results were horrific--think Hitler and WWII.   Whether we like it or not, planet earth, through travel and the internet, has shrunk.  We rely on the cooperation of other countries, particularly those who have been our allies in the past.  No country (human) is an island.