Possible Bankruptcy??

[caribill]

6 hours ago, dog said:

Where can I find out tax info for cruise ships? Please post link. Ie: Princess, Oceania in particular 

 

Carnival Corp 2019 Annual Report  

... Page 5 for income tax payments

... Pages 20-21 for general info on US, UK, Australia, Italy and Germany income tax applicability

[nbsjcruiser]

3 hours ago, samiam1 said:

 

It is becoming evident consumers will demand changes.  Buffets, outdated ventilation systems, cramped unsanitary conditions, and cancellation policies are all going to change. Ships will need to retrofit to meet these trends and that requires more capital on top of likely zero revenue for the next six months.  If the cruise lines don't do this, next norovirus outbreak will be hyped to the moon and we have not seen the fully tally of the COVID 19 effects, there are still sick ships out there trying to disembark ailing passengers and crew.

Agreed and its kind of what I've been thinking about these last few weeks. Things are going to change, they have to after months of zero revenue, bad press, no bail outs. I still am of the mind that many people who cruised before are going to take a wait and see approach to cruising once we're free of this mess. They're going to want to see how cruise lines have reacted to this, what they've put in place to address cleanliness and the coronavirus that will still be around. And as you rightfully point out, God help the first cruise line that has a norovirus breakout. The hype and news coverage is going to be over the top.

Edited March 27, 2020 by nbsjcruiser

[caribill]

12 minutes ago, nbsjcruiser said:

God help the first cruise line that has a norovirus breakout. The hype and news coverage is going to be over the top.

 

The fact remains that no matter how free of the Covid-19 or noro virus any cruise ship is, the next batch of passengers can include one or more who is infected and does not show symptoms and does not know the infection is there.

 

There is no practical way to be sure that no new passenger is infected.

 

There is no practical way to know if a passengers has been exposed to the virus when on a shore excursion.

 

Of course, the same is true for airline passengers, spectators at a sporting event, the people near you at the supermarket or anywhere else. Or if you are on a land tour somewhere in the world.

 

And an eventual vaccine will not change this.

o Many refuse to get an annual flu vaccine shot. Even if they do, it is never 100% effective.

o Many refuse to get or let their children get proven vaccines such as for measles and polio, diseases that could be 100% eliminated but are instead making a resurgence.

[bluesea321]

This is just outright terrible.  This tragedy will not help CCL's stock but that is the least of my worries.

 

"Four dead on Carnival cruise ship amid new coronavirus outbreak aboard"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/four-dead-on-carnival-cruise-ship-amid-new-coronavirus-outbreak-aboard.html

[Cruise Raider]

Just now, bluesea321 said:

This is just outright terrible.  This tragedy will not help CCL's stock but that is the least of my worries.

 

"Four dead on Carnival cruise ship amid new coronavirus outbreak aboard"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/four-dead-on-carnival-cruise-ship-amid-new-coronavirus-outbreak-aboard.html

 And again, the so called news stations and journalists post a sensationalistic article when 2 people have tested positive for CoVid.  People of a certain age do pass away and it isn’t confirmed that this virus, the flu virus, congestive heart failure or a stroke or any number of other conditions took these lives.  But, that wouldn’t make it a sensational story ... poor journalism!  
The CDC finally put out a report that the RNA found in the cabins of those on the Diamond Princess was no longer infectious .... not seeing that article spreading like the wildfire of the poorly reported original articles.  They just love using scare tactics.  It’s almost as though they would love to see the cruiselines fail.  Oh, but no the airlines ... which probably infect as many, if not more than cruiselines ever do.  

[samiam1]

6 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

This is just outright terrible.  This tragedy will not help CCL's stock but that is the least of my worries.

 

"Four dead on Carnival cruise ship amid new coronavirus outbreak aboard"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/four-dead-on-carnival-cruise-ship-amid-new-coronavirus-outbreak-aboard.html

 

Very tragic but it was preventable.  Why did the fools keep operating after it was evident where this was going?  Those ships should have been in port by March 10 or earlier.

[samiam1]

Just now, Cruise Raider said:

 And again, the so called news stations and journalists post a sensationalistic article when 2 people have tested positive for CoVid.  People of a certain age do pass away and it isn’t confirmed that this virus, the flu virus, congestive heart failure or a stroke or any number of other conditions took these lives. .  

 

You do understand there is a pandemic?  That ship cannot even be cleared to dock anywhere.

[npcl]

16 minutes ago, samiam1 said:

 

Very tragic but it was preventable.  Why did the fools keep operating after it was evident where this was going?  Those ships should have been in port by March 10 or earlier.

They tried, Chile would not let them off load at their disembarkation port. They started from Argentina prior to the rash of incidents.  

Edited March 27, 2020 by npcl

[bluesea321]

16 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

And again, the so called news stations and journalists post a sensationalistic article when 2 people have tested positive for CoVid.  People of a certain age do pass away and it isn’t confirmed that this virus, the flu virus, congestive heart failure or a stroke or any number of other conditions took these lives.  But, that wouldn’t make it a sensational story ... poor journalism! 

 

Did you bother to read the article?

 

"The company said 53 passengers and 85 crew members are exhibiting symptoms consistent with the coronavirus."

[npcl]

21 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

 And again, the so called news stations and journalists post a sensationalistic article when 2 people have tested positive for CoVid.  People of a certain age do pass away and it isn’t confirmed that this virus, the flu virus, congestive heart failure or a stroke or any number of other conditions took these lives.  But, that wouldn’t make it a sensational story ... poor journalism!  
The CDC finally put out a report that the RNA found in the cabins of those on the Diamond Princess was no longer infectious .... not seeing that article spreading like the wildfire of the poorly reported original articles.  They just love using scare tactics.  It’s almost as though they would love to see the cruiselines fail.  Oh, but no the airlines ... which probably infect as many, if not more than cruiselines ever do.  

The source seems to be a recording of the Captain on the Rotterdam describing the situation to his crew, that was leaked to the media, since they want to transfer "healthy" passengers from the Zaandam to the Rotterdam and then bring them to San Diego.

Edited March 27, 2020 by npcl

[Whirlybird]

I think need to factor in the very strong possibility of a vaccine being developed for the virus.  I have worked for many years at a large research university, the efforts being made by scientists that specialize in vaccine development is like nothing I have ever seen.  I feel very confident that an effective vaccine will come onto the market in the next year.  That should allay fears of folks like myself that have been big consumers of cruises for the last 20 years.  I sorely miss being on a cruise this spring so can't wait for this virus phenomenon to pass into history and the cruise industry get back to normal.

[nbsjcruiser]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

The fact remains that no matter how free of the Covid-19 or noro virus any cruise ship is, the next batch of passengers can include one or more who is infected and does not show symptoms and does not know the infection is there.

 

There is no practical way to be sure that no new passenger is infected.

 

There is no practical way to know if a passengers has been exposed to the virus when on a shore excursion.

 

Of course, the same is true for airline passengers, spectators at a sporting event, the people near you at the supermarket or anywhere else. Or if you are on a land tour somewhere in the world.

 

And an eventual vaccine will not change this.

o Many refuse to get an annual flu vaccine shot. Even if they do, it is never 100% effective.

o Many refuse to get or let their children get proven vaccines such as for measles and polio, diseases that could be 100% eliminated but are instead making a resurgence.

All good points but you cant fix stupid. If people choose not to vaccinate then let them deal with the consequences. They're idiots. Its not even a discussion that should be seriously entertained. 

[nbsjcruiser]

53 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

 And again, the so called news stations and journalists post a sensationalistic article when 2 people have tested positive for CoVid.  People of a certain age do pass away and it isn’t confirmed that this virus, the flu virus, congestive heart failure or a stroke or any number of other conditions took these lives.  But, that wouldn’t make it a sensational story ... poor journalism!  
 

4 people dead on a cruise ship during a world wide pandemic is certainly worth reporting on and what's so sensationalist about the story? There's 138 people on that ship exhibiting coronavirus symptoms. They just supposed to ignore it?

[Roger88]

I doubt they will go bankrupt. They will definitely have some financial issues but not like their business will be dead. Anyhow, they can always lend money to pay the crew and cover taxes and "parking" and maintenance of the ship. I am sure the demand will be super high in summer. I heard in the news that the virus dies to high temperatures. Maybe its a good season to start cruising again. Will see  

[npcl]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-27/carnival-seeks-up-to-7-billion-in-debt-amid-global-travel-halt

 

News on Bloomberg that CCL is trying to raise 7 billion.  It appears that just about everything is on the table including convertible notes, equity offering, and will as senior notes.

 

dilution seems to be in the future of equity holders.

[Mackenzie1]

1 hour ago, samiam1 said:

 

Very tragic but it was preventable.  Why did the fools keep operating after it was evident where this was going?  Those ships should have been in port by March 10 or earlier.

When did this cruise start?  According to one passenger, they felt confident about going because the governor of Florida had encouraged everyone not to be concerned, and to go about their daily living. They said when our president said much the same thing, and so they thought the cruise would be fine. Maybe the ship left before everyone realized how serious this was. I had a cruise that would be embarking today in Ft. Lauderdale, and I found it difficult to fully comprehend the situation until it became clearer day-by-day.  

[HS2BS]

One of the problems that any cruise line is going to have is public relations! Even avid cruisers(we normally cruise 5 - 7 times a year) are going to wait a long time to be sure that:

1) world wide traces of this strain are minimized

2) ports will not close while at sea leaving you on a no where to go cruise

3) age restrictions are lifted(after the movie “Jaws” came out, people were afraid to go to beaches, resorts or just go into the water)

4) ships have rebuilt there reputations as safe places to be

 

Hal

[Mackenzie1]

1 hour ago, Cruise Raider said:

 And again, the so called news stations and journalists post a sensationalistic article when 2 people have tested positive for CoVid.  People of a certain age do pass away and it isn’t confirmed that this virus, the flu virus, congestive heart failure or a stroke or any number of other conditions took these lives.  But, that wouldn’t make it a sensational story ... poor journalism!  
The CDC finally put out a report that the RNA found in the cabins of those on the Diamond Princess was no longer infectious .... not seeing that article spreading like the wildfire of the poorly reported original articles.  They just love using scare tactics.  It’s almost as though they would love to see the cruiselines fail.  Oh, but no the airlines ... which probably infect as many, if not more than cruiselines ever do.  

Yes, the reporter should have confirmed the causes of death, and not assumed it was coronavirus. However, the CDC analyzed the coronavirus on the Diamond Princess and found that it survived up to 17 days. 

[nbsjcruiser]

5 minutes ago, Mackenzie1 said:

 According to one passenger, they felt confident about going because the governor of Florida had encouraged everyone not to be concerned, and to go about their daily living. They said when our president said much the same thing, and so they thought the cruise would be fine. Maybe the ship left before everyone realized how serious this was. I had a cruise that would be embarking today in Ft. Lauderdale, and I found it difficult to fully comprehend the situation until it became clearer day-by-day.  

 

And that right there is why I find it very difficult to go on another cruise that leaves out of the US. I have to be sure that what officials are saying is the truth. Until I'm confident in that, I'll stay home or cruise out of another country if I decide to cruise again.

[onboard2005]

It may become a requirement added to the cruise line travel industry, as it is for travel to some areas of the world, that people get flu vaccine and COVID19 vaccine, in order to board.  People that refuse would just have to do some other vacation travel. Of course those are not 100% guaranteed preventative. 

[ExDean]

This from Porthole Cruise:

 

A key provision in the new COVID-19 stimulus bill currently awaiting the President’s signature provides $500 million in aid for large corporations, but there’s a catch. In order to qualify for the aid, corporations must be “created or organized in the United States or under the laws of the United States” and have a majority of their employees based in the US.

That provision means that stimulus money will not be given to the three largest cruise brands: Carnival Corporation, Royal Caribbean International and Norwegian Cruise Line. While all of these companies have headquarters in the United States, they are incorporated overseas for tax purposes. The door isn’t entirely shut on helping cruise lines down the road, however Government money would come with caveats. 

Stay safe and well.

[nbsjcruiser]

1 minute ago, onboard2005 said:

It may become a requirement added to the cruise line travel industry, as it is for travel to some areas of the world, that people get flu vaccine and COVID19 vaccine, in order to board.  People that refuse would just have to do some other vacation travel. Of course those are not 100% guaranteed preventative. 

Flu is about 50% in most years. Covid-19 will, by all accounts, be like the small pox vaccine. It will be a once in a lifetime vaccine. The reason for that is because the flu is a highly mutating virus - it changes every year. Covid-19 so far is stable and has a very low mutating level and therefore creating a vaccine to prevent it should be do-able. 

 

Take that for what it worth

[bluesea321]

5 minutes ago, Mackenzie1 said:

Yes, the reporter should have confirmed the causes of death, and not assumed it was coronavirus.

 

The reporter did not assume it was coronavirus.  This is what the article states:

"Four passengers died aboard Holland America’s Zaandam cruise ship and two people on board tested positive for the coronavirus, the company announced Friday.  The company... said 53 passengers and 85 crew members are exhibiting symptoms consistent with the coronavirus."

[Captain_Morgan]

Why should companies incorporated in Panama, Liberia, Bermuda, etc. get a bail out?  Perhaps the top dogs shouldn't have been buying back stock to artificially inflate their price for personal profit, and why aren't they dipping into their own pockets to help themselves?!?

[samiam1]

42 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Why should companies incorporated in Panama, Liberia, Bermuda, etc. get a bail out?  Perhaps the top dogs shouldn't have been buying back stock to artificially inflate their price for personal profit, and why aren't they dipping into their own pockets to help themselves?!?

 

Because they are profiteers.  They won't flag USA and even made the QM2 take down the Union Jack to save money.