Possible Bankruptcy??

[Captain_Morgan]

4 minutes ago, samiam1 said:

 

Because they are profiteers.  They won't flag USA and even made the QM2 take down the Union Jack to save money.

 

Look no further than NCL America for what happens when they try to register/operate with a majority of American crew...

 

As for QM2, they re-flagged in order to carry out onboard weddings = added revenue

[samiam1]

4 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

 

Look no further than NCL America for what happens when they try to register/operate with a majority of American crew...

 

As for QM2, they re-flagged in order to carry out onboard weddings = added revenue

 

America has  a national martime academy and six state maritime academies; we can staff and man any cruise ship.

 

[memoak]

If the cruise lines had to abide by   US labor laws only the rich could afford to cruise and they would all soon be out of business 

[Cruise Raider]

4 hours ago, samiam1 said:

 

You do understand there is a pandemic?  That ship cannot even be cleared to dock anywhere.

 

Well, duh!!  That doesn't even warrant a response.  

[Cruise Raider]

4 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Did you bother to read the article?

 

"The company said 53 passengers and 85 crew members are exhibiting symptoms consistent with the coronavirus."

 

I'm not saying it isn't coronavirus ...and I did read the article.  90% of the tests for coronavirus are coming back negative.  The flu, bronchitis, brochopneumonia, bacterial or viral pneumonia can all exhibit these same symptoms.  I wouldn't be surprised it if it covid 19 ... but nobody seems to want to wait for the facts anymore.  They jump to conclusions.  

[Cruise Raider]

3 hours ago, Mackenzie1 said:

Yes, the reporter should have confirmed the causes of death, and not assumed it was coronavirus. However, the CDC analyzed the coronavirus on the Diamond Princess and found that it survived up to 17 days. 

 

The CDC has had to debunk this report that it 'survived' for up to 17 days.  Sure, strands of RNA were 'present' but more important, the cabins hadn't been cleaned for testing purposes and they determined it was no longer infectious ... so 'survival' would be the wrong term to use as it indicates it was viable, which is was not.  

Edited March 27, 2020 by Cruise Raider

[Griller]

3 hours ago, Roger88 said:

I doubt they will go bankrupt. They will definitely have some financial issues but not like their business will be dead. Anyhow, they can always lend money to pay the crew and cover taxes and "parking" and maintenance of the ship. I am sure the demand will be super high in summer. I heard in the news that the virus dies to high temperatures. Maybe its a good season to start cruising again. Will see  

I read a study recently which claimed  that a high temperature did kill the virus.

 

But its 133 degrees  Fahrenheit

 

The study concluded that humidified hot air of that temperature for 5 minutes every hour for several days blown  in the sinuses did kill the virus.

 

Unfortunately that's not easy to achieve for most of us.

 

And I don't even know if it has been properly researched or corroborated.

[sfaaa]

8 hours ago, samiam1 said:

 

Not easy?  Big class action firms sue much bigger fish than Carnival and win and in this case people have died.

Easy you think? Just because you want to sue someone doesn't make your case a class action suit. It has to be approved by a judge first based on legal merits.

[Mackenzie1]

1 hour ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

The CDC has had to debunk this report that it 'survived' for up to 17 days.  Sure, strands of RNA were 'present' but more important, the cabins hadn't been cleaned for testing purposes and they determined it was no longer infectious ... so 'survival' would be the wrong term to use as it indicates it was viable, which is was not.  

Thank you for this information. It’s important that we understand exactly what is being communicated. 

[CI66774]

4 hours ago, ExDean said:

This from Porthole Cruise:

 

A key provision in the new COVID-19 stimulus bill currently awaiting the President’s signature provides $500 million in aid for large corporations, but there’s a catch. In order to qualify for the aid, corporations must be “created or organized in the United States or under the laws of the United States” and have a majority of their employees based in the US.

That provision means that stimulus money will not be given to the three largest cruise brands: Carnival Corporation, Royal Caribbean International and Norwegian Cruise Line. While all of these companies have headquarters in the United States, they are incorporated overseas for tax purposes. The door isn’t entirely shut on helping cruise lines down the road, however Government money would come with caveats. 

Stay safe and well.

That is correct. Cruise lines will get nothing - as they should get nothing.

[CI66774]

4 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Why should companies incorporated in Panama, Liberia, Bermuda, etc. get a bail out?  Perhaps the top dogs shouldn't have been buying back stock to artificially inflate their price for personal profit, and why aren't they dipping into their own pockets to help themselves?!?

They won't be getting any bailout. They should go to those countries where they're flagged and ask for money. They don't pay US taxes - they get nothing.

[CI66774]

On 3/26/2020 at 3:58 PM, Renmar said:

IF (and that is a big IF) they go bankrupt then, yes we are concerned about our deposits. Maybe 10 cents to the $ if any. There are probably larger problems to deal with than us cruisers.

 

Theo

We would be unsecured creditors and, probably, receive nothing.

[npcl]

15 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

We would be unsecured creditors and, probably, receive nothing.

Not if they restructure similar to what airlines have done for years.  In that case they can and most likely leave the customers whole.  customer would lose out in the case of a full liquidation, but that is unlikely because the lines have plenty of capital assets, just have a liquidity issue.

 

If they were to wipe out deposits and FCCs they might as well liquidate because they would lose their customer base.

[samiam1]

1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

Easy you think? Just because you want to sue someone doesn't make your case a class action suit. It has to be approved by a judge first based on legal merits.

 

Class certification would be a cinch in this case.  The only issue would be whether foreign corps can be sued in the USA or not.  Another reason why the cruise lines deserve not a penny in bail out.

[rickays]

1 hour ago, samiam1 said:

 

Class certification would be a cinch in this case.  The only issue would be whether foreign corps can be sued in the USA or not.  Another reason why the cruise lines deserve not a penny in bail out.

I cant understand why you think the cruise companies should be sued!  Did they create the virus and knowingly allow it on their ships?  What about the airlines that dared allow someone with the virus to board?  or the shops or restaurants that let someone enter with the virus - sue them too!  Oh, that's right, no one can look at someone and KNOW they have the virus, they need to be tested and then only if they are showing symptoms. 

[caribill]

6 hours ago, samiam1 said:

 

America has  a national maritime academy and six state maritime academies; we can staff and man any cruise ship.

 

 

I did not realize that the USA maritime academies were training cabin stewards, bartenders, waiters, luggage handlers, shore excursion experts, singers, dancers, etc.

[MissP22]

13 hours ago, ExDean said:

This from Porthole Cruise:

 

A key provision in the new COVID-19 stimulus bill currently awaiting the President’s signature provides $500 million in aid for large corporations, but there’s a catch. In order to qualify for the aid, corporations must be “created or organized in the United States or under the laws of the United States” and have a majority of their employees based in the US.

That provision means that stimulus money will not be given to the three largest cruise brands: Carnival Corporation, Royal Caribbean International and Norwegian Cruise Line. While all of these companies have headquarters in the United States, they are incorporated overseas for tax purposes. The door isn’t entirely shut on helping cruise lines down the road, however Government money would come with caveats. 

Stay safe and well.

As much as many of us would like to see the cruise industry get some help during this crisis I believe the article pretty much sums it up.

Unless they change their way of doing business in the US in the future, it's the only way to address the situation. 

[nbsjcruiser]

1 hour ago, MissP22 said:

As much as many of us would like to see the cruise industry get some help during this crisis I believe the article pretty much sums it up.

Unless they change their way of doing business in the US in the future, it's the only way to address the situation. 

Indeed. Much will change in the cruise industry when this mess is behind us. Many of us might not want  to cruise in the short term hurting a shaky restoration to "normal cruising". Cruise lines are no doubt examining their business model and examining how they are going to deliver their product to the masses again. It would be anyone's guess what will come of it but I don't see how status quo will be an option. How they respond to future outbreaks of illness, how they decontaminate their ships, how they respond to Covid-19 until a vaccine is found, where they cruise to and station their ships, emergency plans for massive outbreaks, who they let on ships (ailing people for example), size of new ships, the number of ships in the fleets and on and on. So many things are bound to change in the next couple of years.

 

Whatever they do, I hope they make it safe to cruise again and I hope circumstances outside their control don't scuttle well laid out plans. I want to feel safe to go on a cruise ship again but much will depend on the level of competence and honesty that the hosting country has once we get out of this. That is something outside their control and imo, is the most dangerous thing facing the cruise lines right now. Regardless of what Princess or any other cruise line puts in place, if I dont feel safe travelling to Fort Lauderdale or Miami then its all going to be moot.

[voljeep]

If / when cruising starts back again on Princess - say on 8/1 or so, I'm ASSuMEing they will just pick up with their "normal" cruise schedule … but wouldn't it make sense ( maybe not financially, and it's always about the money ) to ease into the process by having more /shorter / B2B cruises on the East and West coasts since a lot of ships are there already ?

 

I'm more concerned about flying somewhere now on an international flight, or even a domestic flight

 

flame on

[nbsjcruiser]

8 minutes ago, voljeep said:

If / when cruising starts back again on Princess - say on 8/1 or so, I'm ASSuMEing they will just pick up with their "normal" cruise schedule … but wouldn't it make sense ( maybe not financially, and it's always about the money ) to ease into the process by having more /shorter / B2B cruises on the East and West coasts since a lot of ships are there already ?

 

I'm more concerned about flying somewhere now on an international flight, or even a domestic flight

 

flame on

I hear what you're saying about flying and tend to agree. I think the problem with lots of short cruises and the heavy turnover of passengers is if Covid is still hanging around in the August timeframe. I suspect it will in the US, and if so, heavy turnover of ships might be a recipe for disaster - more people/more chances for illness. Of all the things they must avoid, another outbreak on a ship is paramount. When they start back up, the industry cannot afford what's going on right now on the Zaandam. Things must resume without a hitch. I'm not even sure that's possible in the short term tbh. I can see plenty of false alarms too as cruise lines do their best to be proactive and with every false alarm will come the over-the-top coverage on TV.

 

Going to be a long time before things return to normal, whatever that is now. 

[Daniel A]

I could see that in the future, proof of vaccinations could be required documentation in order to even book a cruise.  Who knows - there may even end up being a new industry of pre-cruise medical examinations and certifications springing up.  Those stand alone urgent care places would welcome the new income opportunity.  It could become a marketing point of certain cruise lines that they would require proof of such certifications as part of the check-in documentation.

 

I can also foresee a drastic reduction in the number of ports of call for cruise ships as cruise ship passenger phobia will probably take more time to disappear than the actual virus itself.

 

Some type of assistance to the cruise lines will probably happen unless the government is willing to let the cruise travel related jobs wither on the vine.  Port cities already subsidize cruise ship terminals in order to bring in the local jobs that the ships produce.  No congressman wants to see massive losses of jobs and empty terminals in their districts.  There would also be the opportunity for the bureaucrats to get their fingers into the industry with additional social engineering and environmental regulations.

[John99]

OP – Will Princess go bankrupt?

240+ comments on this thread:

Florida employees affected

Billion dollar impact on the Florida economy

Job loses

Agree to disagreed discussions

Little or no corporate taxes

Reference to a recent CLIA studies

Reference to Carnival’s 2019 Annual Report

Effective tax rate

Moral and environmental practices

Covid-19 testing

Princess is flagged in Panama versus US

Re flag the cruise ship industry

Diamond Princess

Economies of port cities

Using a revolving line of credit

Chapter 11 Reorganization

Class action law suits

Comparison of the Airline industry to the Cruise Line industry

Status of the cruise industry going forward

Future Cruise Deposits kept by cruise lines -- refunds

Cruise Lines International Association, acknowledged Thursday that the major cruise lines weren’t included in the package, despite providing a plan to policymakers, meeting with Vice President Mike Pence

 

All the comments are interesting and I find very informative.

 

But -- Will Princess (aka Carnival) go bankrupt?

Again -- Carnival, Norwegian, Royal Caribbean are not included in the stimulus package.

 

In my humble option – Princess has good chance to survive this pandemic crisis. 

Carnival Corporation is in better financial health than its competitors.

[Roger88]

These companies will not go bankrupt. Even if there would be no cruises for a few months, they will lend money to cover expenses. They also wont let the crew stay idle. I wonder what their revenue is this year. Probably they got a negative balance at the moment. In any case, doesnt seem like a big deal for them. I am sure its a temporary problem

[brisalta]

7 hours ago, John99 said:

OP – Will Princess go bankrupt?

 

240+ comments on this thread:

Florida employees affected

Billion dollar impact on the Florida economy

Job loses

Agree to disagreed discussions

Little or no corporate taxes

Reference to a recent CLIA studies

Reference to Carnival’s 2019 Annual Report

Effective tax rate

Moral and environmental practices

Covid-19 testing

Princess is flagged in Panama versus US

Re flag the cruise ship industry

Diamond Princess

Economies of port cities

Using a revolving line of credit

Chapter 11 Reorganization

Class action law suits

Comparison of the Airline industry to the Cruise Line industry

Status of the cruise industry going forward

Future Cruise Deposits kept by cruise lines -- refunds

Cruise Lines International Association, acknowledged Thursday that the major cruise lines weren’t included in the package, despite providing a plan to policymakers, meeting with Vice President Mike Pence

 

 

 

All the comments are interesting and I find very informative.

 

 

But -- Will Princess (aka Carnival) go bankrupt?

 

Again -- Carnival, Norwegian, Royal Caribbean are not included in the stimulus package.

 

 

In my humble option – Princess has good chance to survive this pandemic crisis. 

Carnival Corporation is in better financial health than its competitors.

 

Point of order : -  Princess ships are flagged either in the United Kingdom or Bermuda.

 

[resistk]

29 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

Point of order : -  Princess ships are flagged either in the United Kingdom or Bermuda.

 

 

https://www.princess.com/news/backgrounders_and_fact_sheets/factsheet/Princess-Cruises-Fleet-Overview.html