Changes in Onboard Behavior & Procedures after Cruises restart sailing again...

[AF-1]

Not sure we can guess what will happen until things get under control throughout the world.  Change is coming; Delta Airlines has already changed their aircraft cleaning procedures; which is good. I assume every business will change the way they do business, to include sanitation procedures.  So time will tell;  I know that change is good.  

[navybankerteacher]

11 hours ago, Ellusionz said:

...

 

I'm also wondering if cruise pricing may start going up because of new cleaning protocol after each cruise to offset cost. I can see them doing a full scrub down, maybe with a day between cruises.

That day between cruises would of course come with a fare increase.  The additional crew (and possible sanitizing equipment/products) would also necessitate a fare increase. The additional marketing/advertising costs to lure passengers back would similarly necessitate a fare increase.  The fact that a number of ships (particularly the larger ones) would sail with empty cabins for some time would mean that those sailing might be expected to pay higher fares.

 

Since massive fare increases would be difficult to impose while trying to lure people back to cruising, it seems that the lines would be operating with very thin profits - or even at a loss - for a significant time.   

 

There is now a lot of unused capacity - with new ships due to come on line over the next couple of years: making it difficult to predict how long it will take to rebuild the industry.

 

Taken together, it would appear that it will be several years before “cruising as usual” will return — and then only at significantly increased fares.

 

[AF-1]

I believe the cruise lines will be taking a hard look at which ships they will retire or sell off.  Now is the time for them to get lean.  Maybe they thought; we can get a couple more years of use out of a ship;  well now they may say; it will be cheaper in the long run to retire or sell that ship now.   We shall see.  

[SRF]

1 hour ago, AF-1 said:

I believe the cruise lines will be taking a hard look at which ships they will retire or sell off.  Now is the time for them to get lean.  Maybe they thought; we can get a couple more years of use out of a ship;  well now they may say; it will be cheaper in the long run to retire or sell that ship now.   We shall see.  

 

Who would buy them?

[d9704011]

13 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

Who would buy them?

Gillette

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, AF-1 said:

I believe the cruise lines will be taking a hard look at which ships they will retire or sell off.  Now is the time for them to get lean.  Maybe they thought; we can get a couple more years of use out of a ship;  well now they may say; it will be cheaper in the long run to retire or sell that ship now.   We shall see.  

 

The only reason you'd sell ships is forecasts for future customers is so low it doesn't justify such capacity.  I'd say the big challenge is that future capacity might actually want a mix of large/small ships and most new capacity for the big lines is all big ships.  If airlines were my analogy the A380 is the current mega ship but most flights are point to point and now demand moved to the smaller twin engine A350/787.   

 

Thus if a sell off is attempted I think some big ships will need to go, the challenge is they are flagship and new and fancy and some of the older less large ships just are getting long in tooth but their size makes them better for some cruises.  

 

But as previous poster noted, who would want them.  Kind of like most airlines parking the A380 and can't give them away, the will sit somewhere and a boat anchor on the balance sheets of the cruiselines.  Cheaper to park then run unfilled and manned with crew if they really can't be sailed.

Edited April 8, 2020 by chipmaster

[bob brown]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

That day between cruises would of course come with a fare increase.  The additional crew (and possible sanitizing equipment/products) would also necessitate a fare increase. The additional marketing/advertising costs to lure passengers back would similarly necessitate a fare increase.  The fact that a number of ships (particularly the larger ones) would sail with empty cabins for some time would mean that those sailing might be expected to pay higher fares.

 

Since massive fare increases would be difficult to impose while trying to lure people back to cruising, it seems that the lines would be operating with very thin profits - or even at a loss - for a significant time.   

 

There is now a lot of unused capacity - with new ships due to come on line over the next couple of years: making it difficult to predict how long it will take to rebuild the industry.

 

Taken together, it would appear that it will be several years before “cruising as usual” will return — and then only at significantly increased fares.

 

Going way back to the ocean liner era, many ships would would spend a night (or perhaps more), in port between voyages.  I am not sure the exact reason, other than they simply could not turnaround in hours, as they do today...

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, bob brown said:

Going way back to the ocean liner era, many ships would would spend a night (or perhaps more), in port between voyages.  I am not sure the exact reason, other than they simply could not turnaround in hours, as they do today...

Some of that was simply scheduling.  Some was to allow for maintenance, since the propulsion systems had less redundancy than today's ships.  Some was fueling:  coaling was very slow and labor intensive, and the oil bunker industry was not as advanced, and the ships used vast quantities of fuel to make their speeds.  For roughly the same number of passengers, the SS United States needed 180Mw of power, while the QM2 needs only 80Mw.  Some of that was cargo, the liners all had small cargo holds forward, and loading was crate by crate, and some was mail (Cunard), and that required a regular, timed, service.

[chengkp75]

46 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

The only reason you'd sell ships is forecasts for future customers is so low it doesn't justify such capacity.  I'd say the big challenge is that future capacity might actually want a mix of large/small ships and most new capacity for the big lines is all big ships.  If airlines were my analogy the A380 is the current mega ship but most flights are point to point and now demand moved to the smaller twin engine A350/787.   

 

Thus if a sell off is attempted I think some big ships will need to go, the challenge is they are flagship and new and fancy and some of the older less large ships just are getting long in tooth but their size makes them better for some cruises.  

 

But as previous poster noted, who would want them.  Kind of like most airlines parking the A380 and can't give them away, the will sit somewhere and a boat anchor on the balance sheets of the cruiselines.  Cheaper to park then run unfilled and manned with crew if they really can't be sailed.

I don't know the life cycle maintenance cost of airplanes, but with ships, the cost vs age is an exponential curve, and the curve turns to the vertical (more cost/year) at around 15 years, and goes way high with each ensuing year.  Looking at the big 5 lines, Carnival has 36% of the fleet over 20 years old, HAL is 28%, RCI is 27%, Princess is 22%, and NCL is best with 12%.  While there is a lot of outcry here on CC over the demise of the smaller ships, these older, smaller ships are going to be the ones to go, as they will be easier sells, and the capital invested in them is less.

 

As to who would want these ships, there are other cruise lines out there that operate on different business models and different profit margins, like Celestyal, Cruise and Maritime, Thompson, P&O, Pullmantur all operate older vessels than the mainstream lines wish to operate.

[navybankerteacher]

20 minutes ago, bob brown said:

Going way back to the ocean liner era, many ships would would spend a night (or perhaps more), in port between voyages.  I am not sure the exact reason, other than they simply could not turnaround in hours, as they do today...

Until the mid 1960’s (when non-stop jets replaced ships for Atlantic passenger travel), the North River (Hudson) piers in New York berthed many liners overnight.  Most passenger ships carried valuable cargo whose time value precluded use of cargo ships. The longshoremen’s union contracts and the absence of modern cargo handling equipment often required overnight stays.  There were also mail contracts - with most TA liners carrying surface mail - and most newspapers had a “shipping news” column — listing, by ships’ names and arrival times from previous ports, with arrival times, and destination ports and sailing times - as well as times that they would stop accepting mail for the listed ports.

 

Turn-around was not the well orchestrated procedure it is today - with thousands of passengers debarking between 8:00 and 10:00 AM just before the new thousands would begin swarming aboard around 11:00 AM.

[AF-1]

I am sure cruise lines have accounting teams looking at all options

[NavyCruiser]

On 4/5/2020 at 12:27 PM, chengkp75 said:

"Net Tonnage per passenger"

 

Be careful about using such verbiage, since cruise line officials might pick up on that & start charging us fees.

ie:  in addition to temperature scan upon boarding, they'll also weigh you, & weigh again upon departure to get your "Net Tonnage per passenger" gained during the cruise.

 

Voila!  another fee & profit center for the cruise lines...

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, NavyCruiser said:

 

Be careful about using such verbiage, since cruise line officials might pick up on that & start charging us fees.

ie:  in addition to temperature scan upon boarding, they'll also weigh you, & weigh again upon departure to get your "Net Tonnage per passenger" gained during the cruise.

 

Voila!  another fee & profit center for the cruise lines...

Well, they'd have to measure you to determine your volume before and after, since tonnage does not equate to weight.  That could be even more profitable.

[Shropshire Cruiser]

Whilst I agree with most of the comments posted to date, I have a particular problem with the air conditioning, especially in my cabin because it has a detrimental effect on my health.  I have never lived or worked in an air-conditioned environment, so I am not used to it. Every time I go on a cruise, within days I have lost my voice because it affects my throat.  In my humble opinion (not medical at all) I think that the spread of the virus on the ships has been because of the air conditioning going into every stateroom thus spreading it.  There must be some way to shut it off in the staterooms.

Also the buffet should be served by staff only (as they did for the first 2 days on a Holland America cruise I went on).  Passengers should be behind a roped area away from the food, simply instructing the staff what they would like.  This would do away with the use of tongs and stop people from coughing, sneezing, etc on the food and also from picking up something and putting it back - disgusting but I've seen it happen!!!

[Explorer L.E T.]

I was on a cruise with Hurtigruten in February and the hand hygiene facilities were excellent and widespread throughout the ship. Hand rails were constantly being cleaned. The hotel manager stood at the entrance to the dining room to (politely) ensure that everyone washed or sanitised their hands. The hot tubs were drained and cleaned every morning.

[an.oq]

On 4/2/2020 at 2:39 AM, Odile1 said:

1. We should all calm down

2. Cruise lines will find a balance of enhancing cleaning , regulating buffet , how much it will cost them and still make a profit

3. If I see kids or adults behaving in a manner that is not safe for the rest of the population, it is my responsibility to mention it , either to them or a staff member .

4. Maybe next year the CDC will not disregard that local flu and will include it on the flu vaccine they work on every year

And I hope in the future the  FDA will approve new drugs a faster

5. I wish I was in Sweden

I'm in Sweden and I'm looking forward to my rebooked Cruise in January. Wash your hands often and keep social distance 😍

[dundalkspur]

On 3/27/2020 at 7:09 PM, NavyCruiser said:

Even way before this current cruise line shutdown, we have observed numerous questionable guest behaviors & onboard procedures.  Pls don't take this personally if you still enjoy these activities, but just for us, we don't get into the hot tubs, pools, steam rooms, etc. anymore, since my spouse considers them cesspools for germs & other nastyness.  There are numerous guest behaviors that grossed us out, esp in the buffet, gym, theater, & other large gatherings.  For example:

- buffet:  both adults & kids directly touching food items then put it back, without using tongs;  how many people touch those tongs...?

- gym:  walking away from sweaty equipment without towel wipedown, spitting in water fountain

- theater:  openly coughing & sneezing, etc

Sorry, these are just a very few examples of gross behaviors that really need to change, esp after this shutdown is done

So what do you think new procedures the cruise lines will implement once they restart sailing again for better sanitation purposes?

I would guess:

- mini health inspection, ie: temperature scanner for fever, at embarkation, instead of just paper form stating you are fever free & no flu-like symptoms

- retrofit all ships with full hand washing stations instead of just Purell dispensers at buffet entrance

- staff will serve you food items from behind the counter in the buffet, instead of you self-serve food items with tongs

- limit number of persons in hot tubs, & must shower before entering

- eliminate steam rooms

- more antiseptic wipes in the gym

- no more self serve ice cream dispensers, only served by staff at certain hours

 

What are your ideas...?

I agree with you 100% .I would like to see crew that are sick or unwell not working-eg I have been in the bufftet where a waiter sneezed into his sleeve and wiped his nose on his jacket .I get very upset when people(passengers and crew) sneeze on the food or people in a que.

I would like people to keep a social distance away in all eating areas and the gym as there are some really bad mannered people about in all cruises.

[dundalkspur]

I hope cruise  companies and Airlines are forced to make the circulated air and the airconditioner in cabins more safe as the poor people on the "ships in the news "suffered more than they should have.

[Pipmum]

Think a lot of people have questionable behaviour re hygiene on my last cruise 2017 Cunard Victoria I witnessed various people going into eat not using the anti bac gel, leaving the toilets without washing hands.

Hot tubs usually have maximum number notice. The gym usually provides spray or wipes but as with everything else it’s the users that need to wipe them down themselves, but as we know some people are just plain lazy and inconsiderate to others.

We are due back on Victoria end of July going to Iceland but that’s obviously not happening.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, Shropshire Cruiser said:

Whilst I agree with most of the comments posted to date, I have a particular problem with the air conditioning, especially in my cabin because it has a detrimental effect on my health.  I have never lived or worked in an air-conditioned environment, so I am not used to it. Every time I go on a cruise, within days I have lost my voice because it affects my throat.  In my humble opinion (not medical at all) I think that the spread of the virus on the ships has been because of the air conditioning going into every stateroom thus spreading it.  There must be some way to shut it off in the staterooms.

The AC is not spreading bacteria or viruses to cabins, but just as you say, you are not used to air conditioning, and when in an air conditioned environment, your mucus membranes will dry out due to the low humidity in air conditioned air.  These mucus membranes in nose and throat are the first and best line of defense against respiratory illnesses, and loss of them opens you to infection from any illness from anywhere.

1 hour ago, dundalkspur said:

I hope cruise  companies and Airlines are forced to make the circulated air and the airconditioner in cabins more safe as the poor people on the "ships in the news "suffered more than they should have.

Please provide information, from a medical source, and not just the media, where the spread of Covid on cruise ships was caused by the AC system.  The CDC has said it did not.  Yes, I've seen the report where the Japanese found viruses on the AC outlets in cabins where people were isolated due to infection.  This is not surprising, since the recirculated air in a cruise ship cabin comes only from that cabin, so they breathed out virus, and the AC recirculated it to them.  The AC in cruise ship cabins is much like a window AC unit in your home with the "outside vent" closed, it only takes air from that room, cools it, and returns it to that room.  What would be more scientifically important would be if they had found virus on the AC outlets in cabins where the occupants were not infected.

[oldishseadog]

Hello all, hope you are all well and adhering to your countries' health advice.

To date I have resisted joining CC but have been following it .

It comes as no surprise to me that the spread of the dreadful Covid-19 virus is so rapid partly due to selfish stupidity of some. On my very first cruise I was impressed with the number of cleansing stations and the crew working hard keeping everything sanitised. However I was shocked by the number of ignorant passengers who felt they had no need to wash their hands following use of the public toilet facilities - my wife said that she noticed it with women as well. The same remarks apply to entering public places, especially eating establishments. On subsequent cruises, irrespective of cruise line, I have reminded and will continue to remind those selfish people of their obligations. What is their problem with hand cleansing? It is free to use after all.

Irrespective of extra measures taken by the cruise lines, passengers MUST use hand sanitising where available and if not available, complain.
Also, why is the need for sustenence so urgent that people cannot wait to return to their table before eating whilst queuing at the 24hr buffet? On one cruise I remonstrated with a women who thought it was acceptable to take fries with her fingers and eat them whilst obtaining other items - unbelievable!

OK, my rant would not have stopped the virus but it may have helped the spread.

Once this is all over, my comments still apply as those of us who have suffered from the Norovirus will testify.

Finally (I promise), a special request "please don't forget to bring your brain with you on your next cruise" - you know who you are - or do you?

[Mistinguett]

On 3/29/2020 at 4:59 AM, George C said:

But they will not get bail out and loans from the US. I believe there will be changes everywhere, i believe buffet will change or be eliminated, I know on holland America first day or so of cruise there was a buffet but food was served by staff. Hopefully my next cruise will sail in November but it’s msc yacht club, nothing is crowded there not pool chairs , bar area ,etc , I am happy to spend extra to have a little more space. 

I also hope my next cruise will sail at the end of October,my 8th with Silversea, where hygiene had been implemented at the time I did my first cruise with them in 2010! Always had the Hand Gel at the entrance to every dining room, also at the Gangway when arriving back on board! The passenger capacity varies from 295 to 600 max depending on the ship! Plenty of space to move around. The buffet, only at lunchtime, staffed by waiters who will serve you at your table, if wished! The last time I was on board,a year ago, they had installed a hand washing station at the entrance to the Buffet. This all long before any sign of Coronavirus! So I suppose, at the end of the day, it depends on the Company you sail with.

[AF-1]

3 hours ago, dundalkspur said:

I hope cruise  companies and Airlines are forced to make the circulated air and the airconditioner in cabins more safe as the poor people on the "ships in the news "suffered more than they should have.

Any new aircraft in operation today have air recycling systems that are excellent; as are the water systems.  The water on new aircraft go thru an ultraviolet system which is installed in the water tanks.  This systems filters and kills the bacteria. 

 

Aircraft in Delta’s fleet feature either a state-of-the-art air circulation system with HEPA filtration or a system that pulls fresh air in from the outside to replace cabin air. HEPA air filters extract more than 99.999% of even the tiniest viruses, including coronaviruses.

[NavyCruiser]

HEPA filters makes sense in an airplane, since they pack in 200 - 500 people into a very small space.

But what's the cost to do the same for a huge cruiseship with a lot more breathing space?

Are you/we willing to pay for that extra cost...?

[clo]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

, your mucus membranes will dry out due to the low humidity in air conditioned air. 

I wonder if there are small humidifiers that one could carry on if it's a particular problem.

 

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Please provide information, from a medical source, and not just the media, where the spread of Covid on cruise ships was caused by the AC system.

For three plus years now I've been saying "Please provide reputable and verifiable citations to support your claim." 🙂