Whats happening? SB refunds and payments Covid19

[zelker]

On 4/2/2020 at 5:01 AM, jdk-atlga said:

All:

I spoke with my SB agent yesterday and she indicated that the finance department at SB is small (especially given the circumstances and volume) and that it could take 12 weeks or more to work through it all. I trust her judgement and recognize that everyone is not affected in the same manner. Thankfully, we can afford to be patient. 
 

That said, I do wonder about the ongoing viability of SB and what to do/plan for the future. I can see a financial place for Carnival Corp to consolidate lines and/or sell off divisions. I can even speculate that SB could be sold to another line (Viking or Disney would be good fits). Please feel free to this bit of nonsense into the compost heap...

 

Viking, maybe but Disney????  Surely you jest!! 

[JodiandFrank]

Interesting article concerning Carnival .... I think contacting our cc companies is very good advice.  The future looks bleak for Carnival.

https://www.travelcodex.com/stormy-seas-ahead-for-financing-at-carnival-cruises/

[pauon]

Following; been waiting for several weeks for a $7,000 refund.

 

[Mauzac]

1 hour ago, pauon said:

Following; been waiting for several weeks for a $7,000 refund.

 

 We are closer to $20,000 for our longest cruise ever.  I don't expect to hear anything until about end May.  

 

We were due to leave the house today, embarking tomorrow 😥

[Covepointcruiser]

We are rolling our FCC plus 25% to a cruise the end of October.    I don’t see a place to invest or store our money to make 25%.    If our October cruise in cancelled by Seabourn we will probably roll the $ to our Sept 2021 booked cruise.   Wonder if we would receive another 25% if our next cruise is cancelled?

 

Very glad we are not dependent on that money to meet current expenses, but if you are finding yourself in a tight spot it would make sense to ask for a refund.

[rols]

12 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

We are rolling our FCC plus 25% to a cruise the end of October.    I don’t see a place to invest or store our money to make 25%.  

It'll be interesting to see how that works out. I'm sure the lines are going to try to raise prices as much as possible, and they may manage it for the first round of bookings as there are lot of people with 125% FCC who will possibly be ok with paying higher than usual daily rates (by 25% maybe) in order to use it up. If you took your cash refund, or didn't have a cruise booked, I think cruise prices for the first year or so after things return to normal are going to be a little out of reach. 

 

I'm nervous enough that we have two future cruise discounts with Seabourn. I'd be a little concerned to have a large chunk of credit with them now but I hope it does work out for all. 

[ON cruiser]

It usually is a mug's game trying to predict the future ("man plans, God laughs") but, since I am, despite being asymptomatic, staying indoors and following the directives to self-isolate on this lovely sunny Sunday afternoon, I might as well take a stab at it. It's my guess that cruise prices will be very low once (whenever) cruise lines begin operations. There will not be enough demand to fill the ships, keeping in mind new-builds coming on stream (some of which may be moth-balled, if doing that is viable).

 

Right now, amongst the general public, and even amongst some  former cruise enthusiasts (like my wife), cruising has developed a bad reputation. People see the headlines about the Zaandam, and the various Princess ships, and see cruise ships as floating petrie dishes. They will remember ports suddenly closing and, in some cases (on HAL's and other world cruises) elderly passengers having to get off a long way from home, being subjected to long flights. This is all the antithesis of good publicity.

 

My take is that many people will, for a while until the industry demonstrates concrete steps which reassure, avoid cruising as a holiday of choice--even assuming that people can afford a holiday, given so many have lost their employment or a significant portion of their savings in the market collapse. Many will thus feel "less rich". Now, things may come roaring back, and I sure hope they do (as I look away from my stock market losses--"I don't see you!") but, as Oscar Wilde once said, "a pessimist is seldom disappointed".  Truthfully, once all the quarantines are lifted, I think it will be a slow road back to normalcy.

 

All this will lead, when cruise lines begin operations, to some fantastic discounts--just as there were after past crises (9/11; the market collapse of 2008-09), etc.  Anyway, that is my prediction, for what it may be worth (precious little, possibly).

Edited April 5, 2020 by ON cruiser
Grammar

[Paulchili]

Agree with all of the above.

Add to that the fact that many have huge amounts in FCCs and may not risk this happening to them again anytime soon as cruise lines will probably offer only FCC rather than refunds as cash runs low.

[Gilligan840]

On 3/30/2020 at 3:37 PM, jenidallas said:

Our April cruise was cancelled today.  We elected, via our TA, to have the 100% refund.  Seabourn told her that we should expect to wait 12 weeks for the refund to be processed.

We just called our Cc companies to request a chargeback. Chapter 11 bankruptcy is looming, once that occurs...your money is in limbo. 

[Gilligan840]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:22 AM, florisdekort said:

I would strongly recommend that everyone who is waiting for a refund from Seabourn speaks to their credit card company and requests a chargeback, before Carnival files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. When Seabourn told us getting our 6-digit down payment on next year’s World Cruise refunded would take them 12 weeks, we got Amex to sort it within 24 hours. 

Did just that. Thank you for the heads up! We are out $85,000 for now.

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, Gilligan840 said:

We just called our Cc companies to request a chargeback. Chapter 11 bankruptcy is looming, once that occurs...your money is in limbo. 

Was your cruise cancelled by SB and you are waiting for a refund or did you cancel the cruise and are getting FCC from SB?

[zelker]

Can someone please explain what a charge back request to our credit card company is and what it might accomplish?  

 

Also, does that option (whatever it is) only pertain to cruises that Seabourn has already cancelled and you're wanting your refund sooner than 3-6 months? 

 

Thanks.

[rallydave]

6 minutes ago, zelker said:

Can someone please explain what a charge back request to our credit card company is and what it might accomplish?  

 

Also, does that option (whatever it is) only pertain to cruises that Seabourn has already cancelled and you're wanting your refund sooner than 3-6 months? 

 

Thanks.

It is commonly called a dispute in the US.  You can dispute any charge on your credit card bill or even charges in the past you have already paid.  Most if not all you can dispute on line and you simply state why you are disputing the charge.  Generally the credit card company reviews the charge and either puts a temporary credit on your account or refuses to accept your rationale.  They then send the dispute to the merchant who generally has 60 days to respond either accepting the dispute and refunding the money to your card r refuses to accept the dispute with their rationale.  Generally if the merchant doesn't respond within 60 days or whatever is in their contract with the credit card company the dispute is resolved in your favor.

 

The credit card company can also refuse to accept the merchant's rationale or you can refuse as well and tell your credit card company to refile the dispute and the 60 days starts again, etc.  While the dispute is ope you don't have to pay the charge and interest does not accrue and if an old charge you will have a credit balance on your account.  In the end either you have to pay or you get the credit.

 

And for your second paragraph, replies to anything depending on the merchant's response.  Sometimes works other times doesn't but, can be done for any charge on your card and works the same way whether for $1 or $100,000.

[zelker]

Thanks for clarifying - we've had to dispute charges a few times over the years but never for anything like this.

 

So our scenario is that we had almost $4K in FCDs with HAL and Seabourn and within the 10 days have requested that both lines refund them to our original form of payment rather than letting them continue to hold onto them.  These were all purchased as far back as 2017.  I've been told it could take anywhere from 30 days to 9 weeks to get these credited applied to our Visa.  So can I call Visa, let them know these credits will be forthcoming at some point, and ask them to apply the credits to our account before they actually show up?  

 

As for the Seabourn cruise on May 23rd,  if and when it's cancelled, it's over $30K including their air, and was paid in full in January before final payment was due.  We're really worried that the refund for that one will take even longer.  So can I get Visa involved in that process once it's actually cancelled in the hopes that it will speed up getting the money applied to our account?

 

Thanks for any help...……….

[rallydave]

39 minutes ago, zelker said:

Thanks for clarifying - we've had to dispute charges a few times over the years but never for anything like this.

 

So our scenario is that we had almost $4K in FCDs with HAL and Seabourn and within the 10 days have requested that both lines refund them to our original form of payment rather than letting them continue to hold onto them.  These were all purchased as far back as 2017.  I've been told it could take anywhere from 30 days to 9 weeks to get these credited applied to our Visa.  So can I call Visa, let them know these credits will be forthcoming at some point, and ask them to apply the credits to our account before they actually show up?  

 

As for the Seabourn cruise on May 23rd,  if and when it's cancelled, it's over $30K including their air, and was paid in full in January before final payment was due.  We're really worried that the refund for that one will take even longer.  So can I get Visa involved in that process once it's actually cancelled in the hopes that it will speed up getting the money applied to our account?

 

Thanks for any help...……….

iMHO using the "check is in the mail" from Seabourn/HAL won't work and your dispute will be rejected by the credit card company especially the May 23rd cruise as you can't get the credit immediately.  A dispute is when the merchant has not provided the credit in a reasonable or promised time so for the first group already in work, think you need to wait a minimum of the 30 days and that is 6 weeks as days are business days, Monday thru Friday and for the May 23 you will probably have to wait longer based on what they say at the time with many more refunds ahead of you.

 

Also phoning will be problematic as I phoned about a week ago about another charge and was told the wait was over an hour.  Best to dispute when the time is right on line and if they have questions, they will phone you otherwise you should get a letter in the mail in 2 to 4 weeks with information.

 

You just have to wait a sufficient time where the credit card company will agree to send in the dispute as you have waited a reasonable time and immediately after cruise cancelled in May will IMHO get your dispute rejected immediately.  Good luck

 

I have about a $10K refund for a cruise I cancelled about 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing but, waiting for the 30 day mark as was told to my TA before even thinking of a dispute.

[Paulchili]

Duplicate post

Edited April 6, 2020 by Paulchili

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, rallydave said:

I have about a $10K refund for a cruise I cancelled about 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing but, waiting for the 30 day mark as was told to my TA before even thinking of a dispute.

Dave - how about disputing a case where I was offered only FCC but I want a refund.

FCC may or may not be of any value if either SB or I don't make it long enough to use it.

[rallydave]

14 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Dave - how about disputing a case where I was offered only FCC but I want a refund.

FCC may or may not be of any value if either SB or I don't make it long enough to use it.

Have to assume you are getting the FCC in lieu cancellation penalties per your contract.  That means they have gone beyond the T's and C's you both agreed to and thus any dispute would be quickly rejected by your credit card company as Seabourn is going beyond what was agreed to.

 

My case is a bit unique.  We cancelled before final payment when our cancellation penalty was 12% so we are owed in cash/credit card refund for about 2/3's of our deposit with the other third in the form of FCC's which like in your case is over and above the agreed to Contract T''s and C's so I believe I have a valid dispute for the cash but, since my credit card shows the full payment would need to dispute the full amount and settle for the 2/3's.

 

In addition have another fairly unique issue in that part of our deposit came from a FCD where we bought for $1,000 a future deposit plus 5% off the booked cruise fare.  My TA had my cancellation and another one with this identical issue and Seabourn did not have a firm method for refunding that $1K and I  only had a day to cancel to avoid a 50% penalty so I got the TA's VP to agree to work his magic and either get me the $1K as a refund or the original $1K FCD plus 5%.  Giving him time to work the issue and before disputing will get the latest from him in about 2 weeks after the promised 2 weeks for the FCC and 4 weeks for the refund.

 

Agree with you the FCC may not be of any value if Seabourn or I don't make it long enough to use but, luckily not a huge amount as had I waited another day would have been a really significant hit for our 39 nite cruise.  In any case keep in touch as I will and we each need to post the results of whatever we try..

[Paulchili]

2 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Have to assume you are getting the FCC in lieu cancellation penalties per your contract.  That means they have gone beyond the T's and C's you both agreed to and thus any dispute would be quickly rejected by your credit card company as Seabourn is going beyond what was agreed to.

Our situation is unique as well. We were booked on a 30 day cruise which was bookable as 2 separate segments (but we booked it as a single trip with a single booking #).

SB changed the itinerary (last portion) significantly to the point that we did not want to take it. In view of this change they offered the option to cancel with 100% FCC. Subsequently the first segment was cut in half (due to Corona) and the second segment was cancelled altogether - both by SB, So 2/3 of our cruise was cancelled by SB but they would not offer a refund.

Does any of this change matters?

[rallydave]

6 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Our situation is unique as well. We were booked on a 30 day cruise which was bookable as 2 separate segments (but we booked it as a single trip with a single booking #).

SB changed the itinerary (last portion) significantly to the point that we did not want to take it. In view of this change they offered the option to cancel with 100% FCC. Subsequently the first segment was cut in half (due to Corona) and the second segment was cancelled altogether - both by SB, So 2/3 of our cruise was cancelled by SB but they would not offer a refund.

Does any of this change matters?

Thanks for the reminder, remember reading about this and forgot in my first response.  IMHO you were caught up in the same situation I am expecting to occur with my cruise that I cancelled that is scheduled July 25.   Unfortunately I expect my cruise to be cancelled which would mean a full credit or 125% FCC.  I considered this in my decision to early cancel as determined that once I cancelled, a future cancellation by Seabourn would not get me the full refund as once I took the initiative to cancel I would need to live with my decision.  I determined that I did not want to risk full payment with the possibility of not getting anything back in case of bankruptcy and that financially I took the best course of action for me.

 

You are in a sort of similar situation in that you cancelled first and accepted the FCC and later that changed to cancellation by Seabourn like mine would have.  Don't like saying this but, you chose to take the 100% FCC thus a contract was entered into like in my case and even if you dispute say your final payment the credit card company might pass it onto Seabourn however likely Seabourn would us my logic to deny the dispute and as they say, a contract is a contract.

 

Just being honest with you Paul as we are in the same boat and my FCC is much smaller than yours because I didn't want the huge FCC on the books had I made final payment.  You have my email address and if you want to talk thru this and see if we can dream up a better situation for both of us send me your phone number and we can discuss this.   

[Paulchili]

15 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Just being honest with you Paul as we are in the same boat and my FCC is much smaller than yours because I didn't want the huge FCC on the books had I made final payment.  You have my email address and if you want to talk thru this and see if we can dream up a better situation for both of us send me your phone number and we can discuss this.   

Thank you Dave.

Deep down I know that you are right and I was just grasping at straws.

In the end I still feel I made the right decision as I would not have wanted to fly to Australia for an 8 day cruise - especially when 3 tender ports were cancelled and then I would have had to scramble for a return flight which I had with CX for miles.

I believe the only stops they had were in Hobart and then disembarking in Adelaide.

C'est la vie 😀

Edited April 6, 2020 by Paulchili

[Gilligan840]

19 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Was your cruise cancelled by SB and you are waiting for a refund or did you cancel the cruise and are getting FCC from SB?

Neither. Just in limbo

[Paulchili]

2 minutes ago, Gilligan840 said:

Neither. Just in limbo

In that case on what basis are you disputing the charge with your CC company?

[Gilligan840]

Just now, Paulchili said:

In that case on what basis are you disputing the charge with your CC company?

Currently, my chargeback is regarding our excursions. I canceled them in March 18th, $4500...I have yet to receive my refund. 
On our cruise in 2017, when we cancelled three excursions, I received the credit the next day. Funds are becoming extremely limited, I would rather take my dispute with my CC company, than wait it out for 3-6 months, especially with Chapter 11 looming. 

[tv24]

I am following this discussion with great interest.  At this point, we have decided to patiently wait for our refund for our cancelled cruise.  We requested the refund 3 + weeks ago, nowheres near the wait time that others have predicted.  The charge was to an AmEx Platinum card.  They have been terrific on other disputes, but those were nothing like this.